City November 23, 2010 7:39 AM

The Cost of Sprawl #2: Paying the True Cost in Hamilton?

The Cost of Sprawl #2: Paying the True Cost in Hamilton?
Our friends at RaiseTheHammer, a group dedicated to the livability of Hamilton Ontario, is somewhat similar to the mission of Buffalo Rising: "Raise the Hammer is a group of Hamilton, Ontario citizens who believe in our city's potential and are willing to get involved in making the city a more vibrant, livable, and attractive place to live and work. We are non-partisan and our members come from diverse political backgrounds. Our common interest is revitalizing our city, a goal that benefits everyone."

They have consistently focused on urban issues such as sprawl and urban historic heritage as it relates to their city.  Because of this, my research often leads me back to their pages.  One in particular caught my attention because it dealt with a proposal in front of city government to raise fees for new sprawl style developments in order to pay the true cost of those projects incurred by the city. The council was under intense pressure from developers to actually lower their fees so that their product could be competitively priced in the market. They also claimed that recession was not the proper time to increase fees.  The subtitle from the story which appeared about a year and a half ago read:
 
If suburban homes are no longer affordable once their prices reflect the actual cost of servicing, that suggests the logic of greenfield development is actually a false economy.
 
In the United States we have come to understand just how damaging a false economy based on the home building industry can be.  We have not, however, translated that into an understanding of the damage done locally by subsidized sprawl.  In metro Buffalo sprawl building continues unabated with little to no scrutiny of its costs and economic damage. There is also no apparent political will to reform taxes and fees to pay the actual cost of the choice of sprawl over more sustainable and cost effective form of building.  Unlike Buffalo, Hamilton is starting to face up to the fact the unlimited creation of infrastructure for an increasingly thinly spread population is not good economic policy.  At the time this story appeared on RaiseTheHammer a 'yes' vote on increasing development fees was not assured.  Since then the city council did agree to a moderate increase, though still not enough to cover actual costs.  It was a baby step for sure.  But Hamilton is at least showing some foresight on this important issue and as a regional style government Hamilton was able react in regional manner.  So far Buffalo is stuck in the mud.  Fractured government and shortsighted thinking limits any progress metro Buffalo can make against its own cannibalistic development practices.  
 
I encourage you to check out the comments from readers at the story link and go to this link for a follow up on this issue. RaiseTheHammer was kind enough to allow us to republish the story "Subsidized Sprawl Servicing a False Economy" in full here on BRO.  They post a lot of great urban stories not just important to Hamilton.  I recommend checking them out from time to time.
 
Subsidized Sprawl Servicing a False Economy

If suburban homes are no longer affordable once their prices reflect the actual cost of servicing, that suggests the logic of greenfield development is actually a false economy.

By Ryan McGreal
Published May 12, 2009 Editorial

Hamilton city planners want to increase development charges to recoup more of the cost of servicing new subdivisions. The Hamilton Halton Home Building Association (HHHBA), long accustomed to getting its way in Hamilton, has been busy whittling the city down.

Citizens at City Hall (CATCH) reports that while the planned increase has already been cut by $1,500 per house, the HHHBA request to freeze development fees at their current low rates could cost the city $7 million in unpaid servicing charges.

Planning staff recommend increasing the development charge per house by $7,394 to $26,967. Even with the increase, that would still put Hamilton in 20th place out of 25 neighbouring municipalities.

The issue is that current charges aren't enough to cover the necessary but expensive expansion of water and sewer treatment and distribution facilities, which are already running over-capacity.

The Hamilton Spectator recently echoed the HHHBA call to freeze rates at their current level, claiming that a recession is no time to increase development charges.

This, of course, is an excellent case in point of the often large gap between the rhetoric of free market capitalism and the actual political objectives of business interests. Businesses tend to want free markets for everyone else and preferential treatment for themselves.

Sprawl a Net Drain

It should go without saying that if suburban homes are no longer competitive or even affordable once their prices reflect the actual cost of providing public services, that suggests the logic of greenfield development is actually a false economy.

Now, if subsidizing sprawl produced a net benefit to society as a whole, it might be justified. Unfortunately, sprawl is a net drain by a variety of measures.

The configuration of low density sprawl land use requires high rates of car ownership and results in much higher distances driven, with accompanying higher rates of fuel consumption, air pollution and GHG emissions.

The air pollution results in higher rates of heart disease, and the sedentary habits that attend car-dependent living results in higher rates of obesity, heart disease, diabetes and other lifestyle-related conditions (see here, here, here, here and here).

In addition, sprawl results in the destruction of dependable farmland. This is particularly disheartening in Hamilton, which is surrounded by some of the best farmland on the planet but lost 20 percent of its farmland between 1991 and 2006.

Sprawl also forces public service providers to re-deploy their scarce resources outward. Fiscal pressure from the steady growth of sprawl development is forcing the Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board (HWDSB) to close inner city schools so it can afford to build new suburban schools.

All the money and resources sunk into increasing road capacity also turns out to be counter-productive. As a result of induced demand and other counter-intuitive network effects, investments in increased lane capacity generally result in more, not less, congestion.

In fact, cities that invest the most in road capacity end up with the worst congestion and the most air pollution. This is because more people drive longer distances more often when it is easier to drive. This 'traps' people in car-dependent living arrangements that persist even when increasing congestion wipes out the putative advantages to driving.

No Political Will

Unfortunately, City Councillors don't seem willing to stand up to the home building industry. A motion by councillor Brian McHattie for the committee looking at the issue to proceed with endorsing the staff recommendation and passing it to City Council was defeated 6-2.

Instead, they voted 6-2 to make no recommendation, which leaves wide open the possibility that the status will remain quo. For what it's worth, the audit and administration committee is open to delegations from local residents and organizations when it considers this issue at its June 4 meeting.

Contrast Hamilton's spineless pandering with Halton regional chair Gary Carr, who last October flatly stated, "Growth is not paying for itself. Until it does, we are not going to continue to grow. It's as simple as I can put it."


*Ryan McGreal, the editor of Raise the Hammer, lives in Hamilton with his family and works as a programmer and writer. Ryan volunteers with Hamilton Light Rail, a citizen group dedicated to bringing light rail transit to Hamilton. Several of his essays have been published in the Hamilton Spectator. Ryan also maintains a personal website and has been known to post passing thoughts on twitter.

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...much of my research leads me back to their pages...

First, looking at someone else's webpage and then providing no actual data or proof to support your argument hardly qualifies as research.

The problem with this series is that it lacks four main points of understanding:

1. You haven't defined subsidy, just used it as a generic term to try to discredit sprawl. Are you suggesting that local governments are paying for development to be constructed, particularly residental which is a significantly larger portion of the increase in developed acres in WNY? Some suburban business development is subsidized, and I agree unnecessarily. Pay your own way. However, the home building industry IS NOT subsided. Developers pay their own way on the entire project, which means everything from buying the land to designing the project to construction. If you're claiming negative externalities from sprawl, say so, but back it up with some empirical proof and data. Just because everyone thinks its bad or doesn't like people having a choice of where and how to live (city vs. suburban, high-density vs. low-denisty) doesn't automatically make it bad. I've agreed many times that sprawl in WNY is unnecessary and has severe negative impacts, this "series' adds nothing to that discussion and is continually beating an already dead horse.

2. Impact fees, which you are referring to are illegal in NY. Your "research" should have shown you that. Research has shown that commerical development aften pays for itself and it a revenue generator for community and homes are not, but when done in the right mix, they provide no negative fiscal return.

3. Government fragmentation leads to each community trying to develop and raise tax reveneu for what's best for its residents, not the region. Again, don't hate the players, hate the game (the structure). So long as community borders matter to Williamsville, Amherst, Sloan and these other places, the issue will continue. No one is ever overturning home rule in NY and therefore wasteful expenditures of tax dollars on academic exercieds like the Framework for Regional Growth will have no impact. That documents is worthless because it has no legal authority.

4. You can never compare one place to another, one region to the next because the government and regulatory issues are not the same. Anti-sprawl folks love to cherry pick places and projects that have a negative impact but never going so far to actually prove anything here in WNY. Sprawl has to be contextualized to fully understand it and then offer solutions.

A good report on sprawl would set the table with an firm understanding of the government structures in place and the theory of why communities like Amherst and Clarence choose to grow. That could be followed by some research shpwing if the cost of sprawl outweighs the benefit.

But these stories amount no to research but to normative, moral arguments against public choice with any empirical support to prove its a problem. You're taking the "it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck approach" which I guess is good for an unsophisticated audiance but falls flat if anyone asks any questions or has a greater understanding than you.

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Probably the best comment I've seen in a long time on BRO. ^^

replied to buffalofalling
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On the other discussion you said suburban subsidies were just as bad as urban subsidies. Why the change of heart? Oh I forgot. We are still pretending subsidies in the burbs don't exist. Carry on.

replied to bobbycat
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You got all that from 11 words? You are such a tool!

replied to Armchair MBA
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When logic and reason fail you name-calling is the best option.

replied to bobbycat
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It costs more to build in a sprawl style-that is a fact. The extra cost is spread over the entire populatioin-that is a fact. The Buffalo area population is shrinking-that is a fact. The Buffalo area continues to add new infrastructure while deferring maintenance on its existing infrustrcuture-that is a fact.

The city of Hamilton is beginning to undersatnd that sprawl should be a choice and if you choose it you should pay for it. I am not sure what your argument is with any of this.

replied to buffalofalling
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Well said.

replied to buffalofalling
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BF>" However, the home building industry IS NOT subsided. Developers pay their own way on the entire project, which means everything from buying the land to designing the project to construction."

There are plenty of subsidies. Many of these builders owe their existence to government programs that create their market.

The home mortgage interest deduction is a government incentive to buy as expensive a house as possible making large lot, low density housing an investment instead of a luxury. 30 year mortgages made artificially cheap by the FHA, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac inflate homeownership favoring suburban singles over city multi-family. Of course it would be tough to build any of these houses without the expanding road system which is 100% government financed.

Saying sprawl is simply a matter of choice is understating the complexity of the issue. If you guys are going to argue in favor of sprawl development, at least base your argument on your own personal preference for low density neighborhoods and/or resentment of compact development. That perspective is better than the made up, oft repeated "sprawl is free" nonsense.

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Everyone that is against sprawl loves to harp on the mortgage interest deduction. I'm sorry, but does this not benefit people in the city too that own homes?

The expanding road system is not 100% government financed. Maintained by government surely, but not 100% built by government.

replied to Armchair MBA
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OTB> "Everyone that is against sprawl loves to harp on the mortgage interest deduction. I'm sorry, but does this not benefit people in the city too that own homes?"

The MID is the government's way of paying individuals to buy more expensive homes. This incentive drives the housing market towards sprawl in the form of big single-family homes on large lots and away from places with a high concentration of multi-family compact development. In other words, it makes a product that should be a luxury (sprawl housing) an investment. Yes it rewards people for buying expensive city homes too but in the scope of the housing market at large, those properties are the exception not the norm.

OTB>" The expanding road system is not 100% government financed. Maintained by government surely, but not 100% built by government."

The transportation network that services sprawl communities is government financed. In select towns, developers pay for road and utility connections within their subdivision but the feeder roads and highways needed to access these places are paid for by the public.

replied to OutsidetheBox
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How have you come to the conclusion that "everyone against sprawl loves to harp on the mortgage deduction"? And again this is not a city versus suburb issue.

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There are a lot or people who would like to buy a new detached single-family house. There is nothing sinister about having a little privacy and a yard for your kids to play in, even if it contains less than 0.20 acre.

There are a lot of people who want that new house to be located in a good public school district. They know how high the property taxes are and are willing to pay them. They know they will have to pay more for gas and are willing to pay it.

There are a lot of farmers who are tired of farming and recognize that the highest and best use of their property is to sell it to a developer. So they will sell it.

There are a lot of developers who have the ability to build these single-family houses, employ lots of people, and sell the houses for a nice profit. They will use those profits to buy more land from farmers and build more houses.

And somehow, there are people who want to stop this because it is their preference for city living, and they lack any concern about the public schools because they don't have kids.

And the notion that the mortgage deduction fuels sprawl is the biggest canard going. I happen to be against the mortgage deduction because renters should not subsidize owners, and Canada, without the deduction, has the same rate of homeownership as the US. If we never had the deduction, we would have the exact same rate of homeownship, with slightly lower real estate values.

And do you think Buffalo will ever approach the highway congestion of the DC beltway?

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Again. Not a city versus suburb issue. But hay lets just repeat the same false argument to avoid the point that sprawl costs more than the people choosing it are willing to pay for it.

replied to rubagreta
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There are times when the government needs to step in to do what is best for the majority at the expense of choice for the elite few. This is one of those cases. We need to stop creating public policies that benefit the rich at the expense of the poor, the mortgage deduction credit is one good example of what we need to change.

Public schools in the suburbs benefit from the wealthier residents who live there. They benefit from a well educated and well heeled population that has sucked the life out of the city. Perpetuating sprawl will perpetuate the classism that has caused the problems in our cities.

Sprawl is an unsustainable concept. There are finite boundaries in every region that will limit expansion but the government needs to step in before we reach those limits because of the incredible damage that sprawl is taking on the environment as we get further and farther away from our urban core. We need to focus on the built environment instead of the selfish environment. We need to build communities instead of suburban compounds. We need to demand equality instead of building temples to the inequalities of our one-sided economic system.

It is about time someone stood up to show us all that we are on the wrong track.

replied to rubagreta
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"And somehow, there are people who want to stop this because it is their preference for city living, and they lack any concern about the public schools because they don't have kids."

You deserved to get blocked for such a vapid, noisome comment.

replied to rubagreta
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Nothin like a sprawl post to start out a tuesday right...

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I feel like I need to talk about ‘False Economies’ a little bit because it gets tossed around allot. There are good and bad False Economies all the time in the Untied States. Owning a pet is a false economy, computers were a false economy, cars were a false economy. When the turn gets tossed out everyone thinks that it’s false because it didn’t pan out. Lets go to the Dog example because allot of people have dogs and I think its easiest to understand.

People have a little extra money so they get a pet Dog. Now allot of people have pet dogs and dogs need food. So they buy dog food, this means there is now a demand for dog food. A company makes it and hires people to make it since people are buying it. Now all those people who weren’t working are making dog food they have extra money. Say they also get a dog, and they like there dog so they want to get it some toys. So now a dog toy factory opens up and those people have jobs, and the people who sell all those things have jobs, and the people who breed dogs have jobs. Now we have all these people in a false economy. Were wasting food to feed animals were creating, were wasting power, space productive to make things for the dogs to play with and sit on.

Point being this false economy has made everyone’s life better for the most part. (Unless you define better as a slow march to an agrarian culture) People have pets, which they love, and other people have a job, which in turn lets them participate in all the economic things they want to do. Because the United States for its entire history embraced false economies it drastically outpaced the rest of the world and still dose.

These argument being made that the economic impact are a net negative is just wrong. It just doesn’t hold water once the greater economy is looked at. If you can rope in a really small area like a township, sure you can show a negative. Every time people purchase goods made in China, you can show a negative, but in the world scheme we have net growth. This weak argument, as the first post points out. I’m sure this post wasn’t need for most people. So please forgive me for the redundancy.

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You did not describe a false economy. You described a real economy where people desired something and paid the actual price that the thing cost.

Now if the dog food industry was created due to the availability of free pets paid for by unwilling participants then you would be closer to what a false economy analogy looked like.

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Are the people who are opposed to the mortgage-interest deduction also opposed to the child deduction on their personal income taxes? When people freely decide to start a family and raise children, they obviously know that it won't be cheap to raise them. If they don't have sufficient income, should people be able to expect a subsidy for that lifestyle choice?

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What does the mortgage deduction have to do with this issue?

replied to NBuffguy
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Oh, was I the first to mention it in your Sprawl article? I could have sworn it was being discussed above. That must have happened in one of your many other sprawl articles.

replied to STEEL
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Yes. The decision to own or rent your home should not be impacted by taxes, nor should the number of kids you choose to have or for that matter whether you are married or not. All of these life decisions should not change the amount of income tax you pay one iota.

replied to NBuffguy
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The mortgage deduction is not mentioned in this story.

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...but the comments following the story. Don't play dumb.

replied to STEEL
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Your comment has nothing to do with the issues raised in the story.

replied to NBuffguy
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a good post on Urbanophile on racking up civic debt and then moving on. Pretty much a backbone of sprawl.
http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/11/21/building-suburbs-that-last-5-redevelopment-insurance/

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It is a great read. From that story:

"Why is this happening? One big reason cities tend to fall into decline is that they accumulate huge unfunded liabilities, and those liabilities attach to the territory, not the people. This lets one generation of residents rack up huge future bills, then skip town to leave the next generation or those not lucky enough to get out with the bill. It’s the equivalent of being able run up a huge balance on the civic credit card, then pawn the bill off on someone else.

Imagine if you will if your house worked this way. Your mortgage, your credit card debt, etc. all happened to be chargeable not to you, but to whomever was living in your house. If you simply stopped paying and moved elsewhere, you’d be relieved of all those debts. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? But that’s exactly how municipal debt and unfunded liabilities work. It is a huge incentive for politicians and residents to vote for immediate gratification with the bill – infrastructure costs, pensions, redevelopment costs, or what have you – pushed out 25-30 years. Then these people or their children simply move to a greenfield and start the process over again."

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Great read. Thank you for posting it.

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for those who bang the 'hamilton isn't buffalo so no comparison is possible' drum, check out the buffalo niagara league of women voters analysis of what sprawl costs here:

http://www.lwvbn.org/lwvbnactivities/sprawl/sprawl.html

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http://www.erie.gov/ecrpts/pdfs/tax_comparison.pdf

Here is a link for Tax comparison in Erie County.

Now I agree with the basic principle that sprawl is bad, but at the same time, since taxes are typically higher in suburbs, and houses are more expensive, which means people with higher tax rates and more expensive homes, pay even higher taxes, then, wouldn't they be paying for their sprawl?

Take it a step further and make another generalization that people in the suburbs typically generate more income than those in the city, well then also, via income taxes, suburbanites contribute even more to the city.

When I contemplate ideas to stop sprawl, all I come up with basically isolates further, poor people into an urban environment, than what it already does.

Any solutions for sprawl, that doesn't?

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Actually that chart shows that taxes minus schools are pretty similar. Notice that some towns use a different equalization rate. But beyond that this is not a city versus suburb issue. How many times do I have to repeat that before we get rid of that false argument.

The fact is that metro Buffalo continues to loose population but yet allows for continued expansion of infrastructure. That means that people leave developed areas such as West Seneca, Buffalo, Kenmore and go to new areas with new infrastructure. This means fewer people are left behind to pay for the old infrastructure This means that fewer people are in the metro to pay for more stuff and as the new stuff ages it will be more expensive to maintain with fewer people to pay for it. Why is this even a controversy. Sprawl is an expensive system to support and the people who choose it don't want to pay it's true cost-that is why!

replied to 2roadsdiverged
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2RD>" ...since taxes are typically higher in suburbs, and houses are more expensive, which means people with higher tax rates and more expensive homes, pay even higher taxes, then, wouldn't they be paying for their sprawl?"

Not exactly. Many of the infrastructure and mortgage subsidies that drive development in these places are paid for by state and federal agencies which do not draw revenue from property taxes.

replied to 2roadsdiverged
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My comment was in response to the discussion that follows the story. Here's a recap, Steele, since you don't seem to understand that:

Buffalofalling said, "However, the home building industry IS NOT subsided. Developers pay their own way on the entire project, which means everything from buying the land to designing the project to construction."

Then Armchair MBA responded with, "The home mortgage interest deduction is a government incentive to buy as expensive a house as possible making large lot, low density housing an investment instead of a luxury.

Followed by OutsidetheBox's comment, "Everyone that is against sprawl loves to harp on the mortgage interest deduction. I'm sorry, but does this not benefit people in the city too that own homes?"

Followed by rubagreta's comment, "And the notion that the mortgage deduction fuels sprawl is the biggest canard going. I happen to be against the mortgage deduction because renters should not subsidize owners..."

Then after at least these four refernces to the mortgage-interest deduction, I pose a question about it, and you act like it's the first time someone brought it up? Get real.

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Hey BossHoss: Great job trying to throw someone under the bus. You dirty rat. Not funny. Do you have anything to contribute to the world? or are you just bitter because you're job doesn't allow to to fully actualize your potential?

"Unlike Buffalo, Hamilton is starting to face up to the fact the unlimited creation of infrastructure for an increasingly thinly spread population is not good economic policy."
(great insight... go Steel)!!!

Once suburbanites finally realize that hiding from poverty doesn't help anyone (including themselves), we can begin to create a sustainable city.

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Steel, I still don't understand where the low density subsidy is, specifically? But at any rate, I'll move on.

Problem is that there is so much manipulation going on with everything from Energy to water to roads that the people are stuck in the middle attempting to guess what Big Government is going to do next to screw with everything. Including plopping down a project next to the home, that you've invested in. But the rights of the poor is another discussion entirely.

How about the closer to a Power Plant that you live, the cheaper your energy costs, the closer to a water shed/fresh water that you live, the cheaper your water is. Raise taxes on Gasoline and increase vehicle registration costs so that people drive less. How about Tolls pay for roads, not income, or property taxes.

These are possible solutions to sprawl.

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Steel,

The reason you have to keep tooting this ‘its not a city vs suburb argument’ horn is because this is a city vs suburb argument. That’s the whole point of this set was city are good and suburbs are bad. So please stop saying it.

Now to move past that point, lets say in some reversal of reality sprawl really is all bad, and a devious plan has been hatched by those people who have money to steal yet more money from the down trodden working masses of Buffalo. Clearance has an excellent school and a great deal of money too. It must be those people driving this agenda.

So now we must draw the concussion that all the political power (and largely economic) must in fact lay in the suburbs. Since they were able to execute this New Suburban Order. Now we have this problem of the people you want to pay for your stuff your attacking rather then convincing. Should this be an effort to trick them into liking the city and the things it offers so they send their money that way rather then drag them up for there censure?

The bit about the infrastructure is equally perplexing. Your right the city of buffalo need to declare dead zones, and stop begin to limit there overhead aggressively. While there are new people in other places who need roads. Seems pretty logical to build roads were people use them and to stop working on road that are underused. Or is your thought that if we don’t allow suburbs to happen, people will move into the city rather then somewhere that will give them the suburban lifestyle hey seek?

Way back to the first post, are you telling me the interstate highway system was not “paid for by unwilling participants” or the public school system, or every other thing people are taxed for?

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OK you make perfect sense. It is all suburbs against Buffalo because Buffalo is the source of all the problems in the area. If we could just abandon Buffalo and stop paying for its maintenance we could all be free to live in the sprawliest place and we will be free to spread the population over increasingly immense new infrastructure. It all makes so much sense to me now. Abandon the infrastructure that we already have and have paid for and then spend money on new infrastructure! It is genius. I am sure the people of Kenmore and Lackawanna and other densely built suburbs will go along with your plan too. Eventually we can plan to abandon those places and build even more new infrastructure.

Are you really serious? Do you read your post before posting? Why is it so hard a concept to understand that if you require more roads and all the other stuff to provide for yourself chosen lifestyle that it would be more expensive and that you should actually pay the true cost of that choice?

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Steel,

The difference is the old roads are not used, while new roads are required. So purge the old unused, or under used infrastructure where people don’t live, and then put new infrastructure were people do live. Isn’t that what Youngstown Ohio did? Right size the infrastructure to the city.

Again the point of this whole thing seems to be, ban new infrastructure and people love the greater buffalo area so much there going to be willing to live in the city rather then move to a suburb of Rochester. So how I don’t think that’s the case and people will leave the area before being ‘forced’ into the city. How much dose it cost the county/state to keep the city going? So if the point is simply all tax redistribution is bad, lets talk about that.

I don’t know if it’s really worth exchanging words with you even since it seems we live in two radically different realities. If that’s the case, where our understanding of the world is removed from each other, neither can possibly change their mind since we are running on different facts.

replied to STEEL
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Yawn. Then move back here and start working out a solution Steel. I will never understand why you harp on Buffalo's problems from afar. Since you seem to know everything in the universe, you would be a great asset here.

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As an observer of the decline of WNY over the last 30 or 40 years it is quite obvious that sprawl has played a key role in the equation. We often portray the city as the victim of sprawl but in reality the whole region suffers.

The rural areas are homogenized to a point where they no longer have a unique character or sense of place. Farms and woodlands are fragmented and destroyed with no well reasoned plan or respect for the land. Long time residents are driven out by increased values that pressure them to sell, by higher taxes, or just by the fact that they no longer recognize the community they were a part of for generations.

The suburbanites in these new areas have no roots or connection to the place they call home. They live in subdivisions with no center, no public places and no history. These people are isolated from all others but their own kind and in doing so have closed the door to any chance of growth or insight into other cultures or other ideas. They clearly are missing out on the experience that most humans have sought since the beginning of time, to be a part of the greater community of man. It is no wonder so many today complain of feeling isolated and alone.

The separate enclaves of the haves and have nots further the divide in America today. With no stake in the game there is little incentive to try and solve the problems that plague our society. With little interaction it makes it easier to ignore the problems or blame the victims. Stereotypes are taken for granted without the real life experience that tends to bring the clarity of grey, instead of the ignorance of black and white.

I guess the point of this rant is that sprawl is a social disease that inflicts damage on all of us, even those that believe they benefit from this modern experiment.

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Canadian suburbs are far from idyllic, bucolic places. Ugly commercial strips, massive residential developments with identical brick snout houses ... ick.

That being said, the housing density in suburban Hamilton and Toronto makes Kenmore seem like a ranchette subdivision in rural Arizona by comparison. 20+ story high rise apartment buildings, houses on 25' or 30' frontage lots being the norm (60' lots are considered very high-end north of the border, while it's the minimum required by most zoning codes in Buffalo's burbs), basement apartments permitted so every house can legally become a duplex .... really, citing suburbs in Southern Ontario as examples of low-density sprawl that is expensive to service is about as far from reality as Toronto is from Thunder Bay.

The cost of providing services to a neighborhood in someplace like Mississauga or Vaughn is probably much lower than in most of suburban Buffalo, and probably many city neighborhoods as well. Mississauga has about 700,000 residents, or about 200,000 fewer residents than all of Erie County Think about it.

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I don't recall mentioning Missisauga and for the most part (but not always) a highrise development is the opposite of what we are talking about. So I am not sure how that fits into a discussion like this. Hamilton has recognized that sprawl style development costs more than the revenue it generates and they have taken a partial step to correct that inequity.

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Define "sprawl style".

Yes, I mentioned Mississauga and the rest. The reason is that suburban areas in the Golden Horseshoe area are pretty much interchangeable; Burlington, Oakville, Mississauga, Vaughn, Markham and the rest.

The only things that might make a southern Ontario suburban area "sprawl style" are the looping street pattern, and the vehicle-focused context of commercial areas.

Density? Like I said, suburban areas in Southern Ontario are MUCH denser than their Buffalo equivalents. Let's compare Kenmore with a new development in Burlington. At the same scale in Google Maps:

Kenmore: http://tinyurl.com/39fo5sf
Burlington: http://tinyurl.com/39875cn

Over time, suburban development outside of Buffalo has gotten less dense. Meanwhile, in southern Ontario, newer suburban development is far denser than development from previous years.

Leapfrog development? Epidemic in the Buffalo area, especially in the Southtowns. It's far less common in southern Ontario. Notice how development in southern Ontario seems to just stop at a defined point, instead of the gradual tailing off with small subdivisions of decreasing density scattered among farms and woodlots seen in Buffalo?

Frontage development along exurban collector and arterial roads? Common in exurban Buffalo, rare in southern Ontario.

Strip commercial development? The norm in suburban Buffalo. In southern Ontario, commercial development tends to be clustered at major intersections, although older areas tend to be more "strippy". In any case, there's nothing like Transit Road, Sheridan Drive or Niagara Falls Boulevard in the Golden Horseshoe.

Multi-family development? In suburban Buffalo, it's townhouses and a few apartment complexes. In southern Ontario's suburbs, it's mid-rises and high rises.

Parkland and open space? In suburban Buffalo, it's an afterthought. In southern Ontario, parks are well-integrated into subdivisions, fronting onto streets more so than backyards, and creating truly accessible, usable and defensible space.

There are some areas where southern Ontario is behind the US. Architectural regulations are rare, sign regulations are lenient, snout houses are the norm, and public transit is fragmented (each city has its own bus system). New urbanism development is very rare, despite suburban loop-and-lollypop subdivisions with densities that exceed most American NU projects; NU projects like Cornell in Markham would work very well elsewhere in the Golden Horseshoe. Planners in the Golden Horseshoe are finding that with such high density and ground coverage in suburban areas, drainage is an issue. Arborists fear that tree canopies will be an impossibility; developers scrape and sell the topsoil, there's very little permeable area, and there's very little room for roots to extend.

Anyhow, to say it again: Buffalo has REAL sprawl. Low-density, loop-and-lollypop, large lot, leapfrogging, vehicle-oriented, strip commercial, the works. Southern Ontario's sprawl is just a cheap imitation, especially considering that it's the result of sizable population growth and growing affluence.

replied to STEEL
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So what you are saying is that even though Ontario suburbs are built at a much higher density their governments have still recognized the problem of excessive sprawl cost and have taken steps to correct the problem whereas metro Buffalo with very very low density suburbs and a shrinking population refuses to recognize that sprawl of this type is not affordable or sustainable.

replied to Dan
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They're much further along than we are.

In the historical viewpoint of planning agencies and provincial government in Ontario, in promoting a compact, well-defined urban form, reducing the cost of providing services is secondary to preserving rare agricultural land, heritage sites, and the like; creating the type of vibrancy that only comes with high densities, and ensuring that public transit can remain a viable transportation option. Reduced cost for services is a nice side effect, but not the main goal.

replied to STEEL
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Jeez, I got downvoted for that? Let me try this ... The City of Buffalo is the most authentic, genuine and real city ever, and everyplace beyond the city line is fake, artificial, and plastic. Just wait until everybody else runs out of water! I'd rather shovel a blizzard than crawl out from under earthquake ruins! The Bills still have a chance to make it to the playoffs! Rusty Chain, Rusty Chain, Rusty Chain. People who move to Amherst or North Carolina are traitors, and if we just get rid of the Kensington Expressway, Buffalo will return to its 1950s-era splendor and might. What eyacksint?

Upvote please. Thanks. :)

replied to Dan
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Jeez, I got downvoted for that? Let me try this ... The City of Buffalo is the most authentic, genuine and real city ever, and everyplace beyond the city line is fake, artificial, and plastic. Just wait until everybody else runs out of water! I'd rather shovel a blizzard than crawl out from under earthquake ruins! The Bills still have a chance to make it to the playoffs! Rusty Chain, Rusty Chain, Rusty Chain. People who move to Amherst or North Carolina are traitors, and if we just get rid of the Kensington Expressway, Buffalo will return to its 1950s-era splendor and might. What eyacksint?

Upvote please. Thanks. :)

replied to Dan
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Still getting mileage out of this "authentic, genuine" smack as if that foolish claim is unique to Buffalo boosters and not residents of virtually every city on earth more than 100 years old? Really, it might be the lamest and most tired nonsense on this entire site - and that's no small accomplishment. Please Dan, for the love of mankind, give it up for like 6 months. You'll feel better. We'll all feel better.

replied to Dan
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except the only place that rhetoric ever shows up is on your posts.

replied to Dan
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Nice hissy fit. Never seen someone get so worked up over a couple of down votes.

replied to Dan
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David - It's kind of hopeless. Some people still believe there were weapons of mass destruction, believe Obama is a Muslim, and that he was not born in Hawaii. Some people believe Jordan Levy believes the ECHDC is following the 2004 Master Plan. And Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

The evidence isn't even needed. It is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that low density development, in a city or suburb is subsidized, in greater proportion by people (through their government)living in higher density developments.

It is simple arithmetic; but just look at the statistics - American's arithmetic skills are terrible.

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Daniel>"low density development, in a city or suburb is subsidized, in greater proportion by people (through their government) living in higher density"

Wouldn't we need to see per-capita total of all types of state+county taxes paid by Clarence residents compared to by Buffalo residents, and the per-capita state+county govt spending that happens in Clarence compared to in Buffalo?

What Clarence pays in local taxes and Buffalo in city taxes seems irrelevant.

If it turns out that Clarence residents pay more in state+county taxes and receive less in state+county govt spending, then overall aren't they doing the subsidizing rather than being subsidized?

Look at how much more Buffalo receives per capita from NY state taxpayers in aid to City Hall's general budget than Clarence receives for its town budget. Isn't that Clarence residents, via Albany and the city govt, subsidizing Buffalo residents?

replied to Daniel Sack
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to get back to the actual article itself, increasing the cost for the developers on the front end of the whole process, really doesn't seem like it would do much to prevent sprawl either. It seems to me, you would really need some sort of new process for distributing the tax levy that somehow identifies the "center" and integrates a premium for being outside that "center."

I would like to see articles that explore this kind of thinking, lets stop debating whether it makes sense for me to pay the initial cost to run infrastructure to my house, and then pay a comprable rate for all future maintenance, as someone who lives in a more dense area, and therefore requires less overall infrastructure to provide his services.

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how about land value taxation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

i've heard it praised elsewhere. can anyone with expertise chime in?

replied to 2roadsdiverged
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"whatever" "Clarence residents receive less in county and state govt spending"

Of course it depends on what is counted. David is criticized for not providing every detail - where are your details? What is counted? County highways? State roads widened? Erie County Sheriff? NY State Police? Subsidies of utility charges (see my comment from David's last sprawl article).

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Daniel, nice editing in your quote from my comment.
Your quote of me:
"whatever" "Clarence residents receive less in county and state govt spending"

What I wrote:
"If it turns out that Clarence residents pay more in state+county taxes and receive less in state+county govt spending, then overall aren't they doing the subsidizing rather than being subsidized?"

Your omission of "If it turns out that" makes it look like I wrote the rest as fact which I didn't, and then you ask for numbers for a claim I clearly didn't make. You also made it appear declarative when really I had ended it with a question mark. (Seriously, wth? I almost always disagree with your opinions except when you smartly rant against convention centers, but I'm surprised at that context twisting from you. I wonder if the debating styles of Steel and Armchair/pitbull are having a bad influence on you.)

Back to the topic: Unlike some, I didn't claim as fact that taxpayers in either of the places are subsidizing the other. I just suggested a fuller picture of taxing/spending would be needed for that kind of claim to be credibile.

And yes, I agree state police and everything you listed should be included (along with other spending, state aid, etc., and total state+county tax payments), if anyone tries to objectively determine whether Buffalo taxpayers are subsidizing Clarence through state+county taxes. Or vice versa.

replied to Daniel Sack
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I was not going to get involved but since you felt the need to drag me into this, I can't resist.

Whatever>" "If it turns out that..."

Classic "whatever" poor argument loophole. We all know you suggested Clarence residents were subsidizing the city as you have brought this up in other discussions. When someone calls this idea into question, you conveniently site strategically placed back out phrases, in this case "if it turns out that" as a way to wiggle out of your baseless suggestion.

By using these loopholes you think you have found a way to never be wrong. If someone else validates your previous claim, you say I told you so, but if someone challenges your claim, you cite said loophole and scold the person for misquoting you. Nice try.

replied to whatever
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Given the recent road block for the Verizon Data center, why haven't any of Buffalo's brown fields been considered? It's a data center, it doesn't need to be out in the boonies(is that a word?)

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Excellent point, Magnum. Same reason that subsidies were heaped on the sprawl in south Buffalo at the Union Ship Canal and Gieco in poverty stricken Amherst.

Racism.

Build where there are few or no bus lines and people of a certain economic class who "they" are afraid may also be a certain color will not work there.

It is just as cold at the former Worthington Compressor site on Buffalo's east side or former Republic Steel site (to keep Verizon's servers cold), and the same inexpensive electricity is available there.

But why support density when sprawl can be supported. Wasn't there a law passed recently for New York that is supposed to prevent subsidy for sprawl?

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Yes Daniel Sack, this is all just one huge racist conspiracy meant to keep a brotha' down.

I honestly expected more from someone with your background and credentials.

replied to Daniel Sack
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"sho'nuff" - I know my explanation seems radical. What is your explanation?

I believe sprawl is bad. Seems to me that building around the Union Ship Canal is sprawl. Little or no access to public transportation, single use development, no one would walk from their home to work there. The light industries (and offices encouraged to) locating there could easily be located on Buffalo's east side, conforming to the anti-sprawl principle's of "smart-growth" mandated in the City's Comprehensive Plan.

Empire Zone credits in Amherst? Again, a sprawl development and a development that encourages more sprawl. If Gieco did not locate there because of racism then what is the explanation? Why NOT conform to the principles of smart growth and locate in the City?

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You can live anywhere you want. But, you shouldn’t expect everyone else subsidize your decision. Just like a Buffalo Bills ticket would be about $2400 a ticket if the good tax payers of Erie County didn’t subsidize it.

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We better close-up Artspace and all BMHA projects ASAP! I don't want to pay anymore subsidies for them!

replied to bung
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