City September 19, 2010 10:46 AM

The Human Assets of a City

The Human Assets of a City
How do you save a city after a half century of destructive urban policy and anti urban cultural trends?  That is the question we are all trying to answer these days. These days news is full of this or that project intended to make the city more attractive to the masses.  These projects rarely, however, trump the serious problems stemming from the poverty that is concentrated so heavily in parts of the city. Poor schools, crime, and outright racism are giant barriers to saving many of our cities. Some say  'Don't try to save the city'.  They say 'Wipe it away and start over from nothing'.   Starting from scratch has been the American way after all.
 
I stumbled upon this wonderful video on Detroit (see below), which is a wrecked city by any measure.  The video posted here is the first segment of a three part series focusing on some of the people who have a different attitude toward the city.  They are not waiting for it to be fixed.  They are fixing it themselves. These are the people that any successful city needs.  They are the people who will fix things without waiting for someone to wipe the problems away first or to fund a silver bullet.  Although chronically lacking in quality political leadership, Buffalo has more of these kinds of 'take on the problem' people than in any time I can remember in my lifetime.  This is why I am so much more optimistic about Buffalo's future today than I was a decade ago.  Check out the video (link).  It touches on many issues that parallel Buffalo.   Buffalo has retained more of its physical assets.  Can it now leverage its human assets to save a city?
 
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UGH I am soooo tired of the armchair urban planner vernacular on this site. Please think of another way to say silver bullet. There are so many planning catchphrases from the early '90's used on this site both by the bloggers themselves and the people commenting. Lets actually read some new material on the subject and inject some new thoughts into our heads and words into our vocabularies.

Better yet, think for ourselves, have our own ways of explaining our ideas and thoughts.

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Why be so negative?

This video one of the first positive things i have seen about Detroit in a long time and whether you like it or not, Buffalo is in a similar position.

We too, spend all of our efforts, time and the little money that we have trying to make this city a better place. We (as in Buffalonians) throw dance parties and shows to make money to keep non profits/organizations surviving, we create art spaces out of old beat up buildings and we also are in a city that is too big for our population. Look at PUSH, Sugar City, Allentown association, Mass. ave project, WNY book arts and so many more that continue to work diligently each day to making this city a better place.

These young, urban kids in Detroit have the same hope that i have for our fair city. Its great to see them doing something positive. This video gives me hope!

Thanks Steel!

replied to RichmondWestUtica
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If you want to think for ourselves, it's not far off from this video. The luxury we have is that when people left Detroit, their suburbs were in other counties. At least here in Buffalo, we still all stayed in Erie County.

Buffalo's problem is that it built too many highways. Look at other major metro areas. Typically for our size, we have a lot more than most for our population. It just doesn't add up.

And now towns are selfishly contributing to the destruction of the city by allowing suburban developments to take place. On paper it looks like the economy is growing in the town, but realistically it's only wealth shifting. There is no growth.

It's all fake growth.

This city and county have not taken the initiative to end the meaningless expansions of suburbia. We pay higher taxes because we've expanded out so much. If roughly the same population lived here post WWII as there is today, we've multiplied the amount of utility costs we have to pay. How stupid is that?

Rather than reinvest in their urban core, they abandon it like cowards.

replied to RichmondWestUtica
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Watch Part Three 9:30 to the end

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we buffalonians know that the pornography of decline gets really exploitive and pointless after a while. go, detroit!

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oh and much of Detroits successes came from 2 things:
1) a limit of auto imports from foreign nations. Check films from 1970 and prior. 99% of the cars were american made.
2) the rest of the world's manufacturing capabilities had been destroyed in WWII and it took roughly 20-25 years to offer US manufacturers any competition.

replied to grad94
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Do we now? You know what gets old? Living among it -- and those in denial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGzroYZhO-k

replied to grad94
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Wow a video that really says nothing about why Detroit became a failed city, why it continues to be a failed city and why signs of life in Detroit are little more than using Elmwood to define a renaissance for all of Buffalo.

Detroit was killed by incompetent state governors (who allowed the state to become dependent on the auto industry as NYS is dependent on the financial industry), incompetent minority mayors (though Brown inspires more confidence than Masiello here in Buffalo...we have been spared) and both the unions (auto and civil service).

Basically the liberals, the democrats, the leftists, the socialists, the unions tried to bureaucratize and legislate so many union/government programs that there was no money left for the private sector.

All this happened while democrats and republicans rubber stamped free trade deal after free trade deal, dropping tarriffs and import taxes to support offshoring and outsourcing in the most massive de-industrialization of a nation in world history.

The industry first left for the south to escape the unions and then left the country.

A great deal of this is by the way Federal Policy. Other nations (China, Japan, Germany) have what is called a VALUE ADDED TAX which is allowed by our free trade agreements. As an example cars that are made in the US are on average 6,000 more expensive in Japan and Germany as an example because they are imported and must pay a VALUE ADDED TAX (imports add no national value). However, exports from say Japan and Germany into the US receive a $6,000 credit because they did create national value but arent consumed nationally. The US has no VALUE ADDED TAX to equalize the system and those import subsidies underprice our goods particularly if their from low wage countries like China. Now add in IRS tax subsidies for off shore corporations, offshoring and outsourcing and its both intentional and planned.

All this can be fixed but the people must understand government policy.

This is the lession Detroit taught the nation. You cannot have growing government (buracracy and civil service employment and union demands for benefits) and growing social services and and uncontrolled immigration AT THE SAME TIME YOU HAVE A DECLINING REVENUE BASE.

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funny how no one was b-tching about those policies when they produced extraordinary wealth and power for detroit.

replied to JohnQBuffalo
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ah yes, welcome to the united soviet socialist world of Grad94.

The answer to your question is those policies didnt exist when Detroit was successful:
1) The railroad unions were powerful enough to call a national strike and shut down the economy. FDR nationalized them under defense security. Eisenhower decided to break the railroad unions by building the highway system

2) The steel unions were powerful enough to call a national strike and shut down the economy. Eisenhower settled the strike and opened the entire industry up to imports.

The entire free trade, de-industrialization, offshoring, outsourcing came directly in response to union exploitation.

Of course, once the doors were open to imports, the wall street bankers found out they didnt need to worry about short term productivity. Corporate raiders like Carl Icahn and retail importers like Walmart found they could make huge margins of profit off cheap imports.

3) nearly every social modern social movement came from a particular religious group with strong leftist leanings and global rather than national beliefs...their social movements started grass roots and then the costs were absorbed into the government. The costs of labor and environment once dictated by the market, reformed by unions and then absorbed into the government department of labor and department of environment, the costs of family and religion once practically free from volunteers, reformed by feminism, and the costs of orphanages and hospitals and education (became government agencies of human services, education, welfare, etc) thus freeing women to work.

Detroit was successful not despite but until...the leftist parasites started eating off the margins with greater demands and opening the nation to imports.

I wish I could open your eyes Grad94. I believe in a social safety net too but a social safety net can be accomplished only with nationalist oriented policies and markets and regulation that is limited to the scope of the consumers ability to finance it.

Even Milton Freidman, whom I despise, agreed that you cannot finance a social safety net, finance government and/or finance war if your outsourcing/offshoring jobs because it will limit your revenue to pay for it.

Even Milton Freidman, whom I despise, agreed that you cannot finance a social safety net if dont enforce borders and limit immigration because it will expand services beyond your ability pay for it.

In terms of Buffalo, Buffalo is hampered by unfunded and overly bureaucratic mandates of laws that were written by and for downstate. Now, you may despise Palladino but atleast there would a real person and not a Stackowski rubber stamper looking at those laws that treat us unfairly here in Upstate.

replied to grad94
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ok, i get it. johnq/christy/lou.

government activities that you approve of = patriotism.
government activities that you disapprove of = socialism.

replied to JohnQBuffalo
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No Grad94 either your not reading or your not understanding.

There is great merit in a social safety net: Unemployment Insurance, Job retraining, Social Security, Disability, Healthcare.

Let me say it in few words.

1) Its not possible to pay / provide social safety net if you expand it to far with scope of benefits or number of beneficiaries (there are 500,000 legal/illegal immigrants per year coming to the US).

2) Its not possible to pay / provide a social safety net and ascribe to free trade tax revenue from manufacturing and services are outsourced/offshored to foreign countries then re-imported. It reduces tax revenue and puts many job seekers are put on social programs.

3) Compare the buracracy and overhead costs of administrating a government program to that of a non-profit.

4) Scandinavian countries have an excellent social safety net but they are a homogenous society and not much of a litigious
society. The quiet stoic conformity of scandinavians makes abusing the system culturally more unacceptable than in a heterogenous society here in the US.

IN OTHER WORDS, A SOCIAL SAFETY NET REQUIRES A CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM WHERE THE INPUTS (TAXATION) EQUAL THE OUTPUTS (BENEFICIARIES). YOU CANNOT HAVE LIVE IN A UTOPIAN WORLD OFFERING EVERYONE IN THE WORLD US JOBS AND ALLOW EVERYONE IN THE WORLD CITIZENSHIP AND FIGHT PROXY WARS AROUND THE GLOBE THAT SERVE NO PURPOSE.

Nothing our nation is doing is in its best interest. Its operating with a global mindset rather than a nationalistic mindset. BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ARE TO BLAME.

replied to grad94
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I don't think that Buffalo is this bad..there was a time when it was...I believe things are really on the upswing in Buffalo thanks to the "empire zone" and "tax credit development"

Buffalo has some good momentum...the problem here is the politics, climate, and slow decision making process...

Most importantly, NYC milks us dry...they have been taking advantage of our tax base for years...the people in NYC think we are all stupid farmers; we don't count. Our image needs to change; we need to market the city differently.

This is one of the reasons why you need a guy like Paladino for Gov. Like him or not...Buffalo will no longer be bullied by Albany and NYC.

The economics need to change upstate; when they do, I believe Buffalo can be like it was again...Corporations are looking for a reason to move back here...

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Here are Buffalo's problems, fix these 3 and I guarantee you will see a revived, energized, growing, prosperous, and respected city:

1. Democratic politicians with status quo ideologies and anti business attitudes.
2. Choking taxes - need to cut the fat, lower taxes, and make people feel fairly taxed for the services they receive.
3. Unions - There is nothing good about Unions in Buffalo anymore. I challenge you to find one good thing that a Unionized company does better than a private sector one. Hold on, I'll wait.

I guarantee that if those 3 things are corrected, Buffalo will be a place that has (good) jobs, a tourist destination, and respected nationwide. If not, you will continue to see decline and slipping population numbers.

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really not trying to attack you/degrade the convo, so please don't take it that way. seriously interested in your answers.

1. Which leaders do you feel are antibusiness? or are you saying that democratic politicians are in general anti business? If that's the case, then I'm curious what you think of other cities - the vast majority of which are democratic strongholds and usually successful, economically speaking.
2. what taxes are you referring to? what percentage of buffalonians even pay income tax? the incomes are so low and the house values are so low that the tax burden on most buffalonians is practically non-existant.
3. i'm not sure how unions play any role in the convo. you say union companies and non-union companies are the same - i'd agree. i dont really see how a union affects the macro economy of buffalo. are you saying that because some companies have unions that it dissuades other companies from moving to buffalo, or something?

yahoo#9fd82,
That's a good 3-point summary, but your first point shouldn't blame only Dems. Quite a few fiscally-left-leaning Republicans (including Pataki, Volker, etc., etc.) in the state and region have acted similarly to Dems in making your 2nd and 3rd points true.

To change the 3 things you listed will be nearly impossible any time soon because many voters statewide really want to elect legislators who favor high spending (thus high taxes) and powerful unions (esp. for public workers). Even if Paladino wins, the state leg won't change much. If those 3 things do change, I think you're right this area's long term economy would improve. Even then, it still wouldn't likely be a boom region but it might start growing or at least decline less than it would otherwise.

jag, the tax and union issues mentioned by #9fd82 have more to do with policies of NY state which contributed in part to why long-term economies of Buffalo/WNY and most of Upstate have underperformed.
NY state is consistently ranked at or near highest for taxes and business hostility. Downstate can tolerate it all way better than Upstate has.

(disclaimers for haters: yes other cities and states have problems too, I don't hate Buffalo, our 4 seasons are great, this recession hit most of the U.S. harder than here...)

I found Tom Barlow's observation interesting. In some respects, Detroit and Buffalo are casualties of the American Dream. Immigrants came to America, took jobs that paid a middle class wage, which allowed them to move from the lower class neighborhoods, buy a boat and two cars, help their kids with college, then retire to the south. Since the early 1970s, the average income for middle class earners has risen more than 31%, even after factoring in inflation. Middle class family incomes have risen more than 44% since 1985, primarily due to the increase in dual income families. Middle class family net worth has more than quadrupled since 1980, primarily due to the increase in retirement plan enrollments, stock ownership, larger houses that appreciate in value, and company sponsored pension plans. The last few years have shown a reversal in this trend, but we are still far above where we have been in the past. With prosperity comes choices and opportunity, choices of where to live, what to drive, what to buy, and more options for increasing wealth. This same time period is marked by mass migration from city centers, and mass migrations away from failing cities like Buffalo and Detroit. Money and prosperity offer people the option to move from cities like Buffalo to growing cities like Atlanta and Chicago. There is no need to suffer in a declining city, when you have the means to uproot and seek out more money and opportunity elsewhere.

There is no denying that Buffalo has lost population, especially middle and upper class population, to other cities and to the suburbs. The poor are left behind because they do not have the options or opportunity to move elsewhere. The struggle of the poor increases as the gaps between lower and middle class increase. I wonder what increasing wages and welfare for the poor will really do to the city. Will it create increased investment, or a new wave of middle class earners who take the first road out?

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What we just saw was a focus group of wealthy middle class college student sharing their views on how "hip" it is to be part of progress in a veiled attempt to sell boots by Palladium which are sold at Urban Outfitters. In my opinion Urban Outfitters and Palladium uses these focus groups to understand the hedonistic values of youth culture. IE: individuality defined by a conformity to current trends in art fashion and music. They are brilliant marketers. I ask have you bought into this bullshit? Johnny Knoxville interviews two "musicians" on the topic of progress? The Same Johnny Knoxville who shoots fireworks out of his ass. He resonates with the youth of today in his dress his attitude and his ability to entertain us by sacrificing his own dignity and safety. Is this how we wish to be seen? How was such progress spurred by these youth? The progress they speak of is dependent on the bank accounts of their parents and the money set aside for them to go to college which was obtained in an era or progress and growth of which we have not seen since the 1980's. Producing art space and music venues are great forms of entertainment for this quasi bohemian subculture, however few reach the level of true devotion and passion for change.
Dont talk about it be about it.

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I could not find the link to the bios for the people featured here. Could you please post it? If you can't is it possible that you are just making crap up? And if you are just making up crap what is your point - just trying to be contrarian? Why?

replied to slowrollin99
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Steel is it possible that my comment defines you? Is it possible you missed the real intent which is to sell boots? Is it possible you did not take the time to see who produced the video and then ask why would a shoe company do such a thing? Did you miss the part where the bar owner Larry Mongo says he had 200 white kids on bikes asking him to open the bar? If you call this progress you are delusional. What this movie illustrates is a romanticism or a hipster quasi bohemian lifestyle set to the sounds of parodied lo-fi crap.

Here is a hint, the goal of any business is to raise profits. You/we are consumers and much ask these questions or blindly find ourselves walking into Urban Outfitters to buy boots in the name of progress. Or in your case writing articles about how a couple of wealthy 20 somethings are really working to change Detroit.
I just enjoy making what should be obvious observations on what the movies intent was apparent to the willingly blind. So Please do not insult me. You see things one way, I see them for what they are.

I am not making things up. The video was made by a boot company, which features Johnny Knoxville in a flat conversation with a few college age people. I think Chris Turner in the video says it best when he says "you are not meeting these people in abandoned buildings, you are meeting them in hipster hangouts". Corporations have used this form of marketing for the better part of the last decade. Viral. The focus is on the romanticism of the quasi bohemian synthetic culture which you buy into.
I do not need to know the bios of the kids the kids in the video. The use of symbolism via fashion is used to signify belonging. They are all clones. In this case I see them as quasi bohemian. They state they attend CCS a private arts college. Graduating from the undergrad program will set you back $120,000. Based on this I draw a hypothesis. I have proven my hypothesis at this point. Sorry if it all went over your head. You were just the victim of brilliant marketing. now go buy yourself some boots at urban outfitters,

I only comment on topics which I have fully read and understood. You should try it. Rather than attack me in defense of your own self identity.

replied to STEEL
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so you did just make up crap. That is always a great basis for a meaningful conversation.

I do (and did ) know it is advertising. Levis has done something similar (though much more meaningful and better quality in a Pennsylvania town) So what? Are these actors? Not as far as I can tell. They are telling a real story. These people are taking interest in a part of our American legacy which has been tossed off by the masses. It is an interesting story. These are the kind of people who will bring the city back. They will plant seeds that will attract the next level. Any city that ignores these people does o at there peril. Why that generates such hostility in you is odd.

I also find it odd that no matter what story is published there is a dedicated bunch who take it as their mission to disparage what others are doing. Is this a form of jealousy? Do you feel threatened by people who want to live in Detroit (or Buffalo) and try to reclaim it for future generations? I really don't get it. Why all the hate and sarcasm?

replied to slowrollin99
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If you insist on going of topic and would like to speak of the downfall of Buffalo how it happened citing stats you found online. That is fine. But you miss the point which is that individuals have the power to create change however minute it maybe. If you want to lecture on what happened I suggest you first read the book Power Failure by Diana Dillaway. Her insights into the political and economic elites of Buffalo are eye opening.

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My hope is that young people, coupled with the many ethnic groups left behind by suburban sprawl, will use the landscape to create opportunities of their own, much like the stories presented in that video. The one guy spoke of not having to compete with big-box retailers. The other guy spoke of a rallying effect of excitement and support. These are pretty unique things that happen in the rust belt; things that make Buffalo, Detroit, Cleveland, Rochester, etc. better, in some respects, than towns like Houston, Charlotte, Atlanta and Pheonix that have absorbed our population loss in the past. To these places, one's creative endeavors are a drop in the bucket (they have to be, by virtue of numbers). To Buffalo, you are valued and embraced.

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I suddenly have a lust for flannel and Palladium boots. That will definitely make a difference! so epic! lets buy some clothes so everyone knows we mean change. Then we can go to concerts and parade around like the donks we are.

Heal me from my addiction fill my prescription. consume follow me the pills say swallow me.

cant you tell I am in another dimension?

Metaphors from a true Detroit Legend. if you dont understand then this was not for you. so F! you

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A bunch of young hipsters working off their white guilt. I can't think of a better way for them to rebel against their parents than to reject the suburban lifestyle to try to move into the city to prove that they aren't conformists. So trite and so cliche.

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damn straight, bobbycat. those white kids should stay in sterile suburban enclaves where they belong, absorbing their parents' fears of black people and hanging out at mega-shopping malls. how dare they reject the corporatized environment that has been so carefully planned for them?

replied to bobbycat
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http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/09/loop-city.html

THIS IS A TAKE OVER!
Anyone who wants to watch a video that focuses on the problems created by sprawl and the some creative effective ways to combat it please enjoy. If you prefer to watch adds for boots this is not for you.

This video in from copenhagenize.com is inspirational and very visually appealing. IT focuses on attempts to combat urban sprawl in realistic and sustainable ways. This video goes way beyond the scope of college kids opening bars and restaurants and calling it progress. Brace yourself Steel!

Steel may I ask where you first saw the video you posted? Was it perhaps on a fashion blog? I think so..

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That was much better. You actually contributed something substantive to the conversation. It was a very pretty video with some great points but, you do understand it was a promotional video for a proposed new train line right? It was an advertisement. Even so this and the video that I posted are not mutually exclusive. You can get complementary information from both. One thing however. If Buffalo needs to wait around for someone to plan and implement a multi-billion dollar rapid transit expansion the city is in big trouble. While we are waiting maybe it is a good idea to encourage grass roots interest by energetic people who want to rebuild the city and see great value in saving it.

replied to slowrollin99
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The grassroots efforts in our city are the most encouraging and we can thank the younger generation for recognizing the value and potential in city life. Many grew up in the surrounding suburbs and yearned for a more engaged and meaningful life, to be a part of a real community. Others are home grown city people that feel deep pride and commitment to their city and their neighborhoods. Together these two groups have done much to stabilize and improve Buffalo by putting not just their dollars into it, but their heart and soul. This energy and drive was lacking here for so many years, great to see a new generation with such dedication and ambition.

replied to STEEL
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Steel: stick to the fashion blogs. I try to answer to all your claims so please answer mine. Did you jack your post from a fashion blog? Yes or No? Did it occur to you that maybe the intent of the site you got that video from was to sell hipster crap fashion?

And to answer another of your assanign questions. Yes Johnny Knoxville is an actor. The kids in the video are a focus group.
IF you dont want to believe that. I have nothing left to say.


replied to STEEL
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What is your problem?

As far as I know the people in the video are real people doing real things in a depressed city. WhoTF cares what the motivation of the company is? The fact that a company finds marketability in people who want to turn things around there is encouraging. Jonny K is the host - who cares about him? If these were all actors making up a fake story you would have a point but I don't think they are so what is your point? You hate on these people because they used this company as a way to get their word out? Why?

replied to slowrollin99
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Both perspectives are valid, albeit one is based on a presumption of continued but controlled growth and the other is uncontrolled sprawl and old area decline. There was a student proposal at UB which proposed something very similar for the Railroad infrastructure for Buffalo as that Copenhagen video. 10% of the entire city is Railroad ROW. That is a HUGE percentage of our city, basically sitting idle or underutilized.

Another difference between the two ideas is that Copenhagen is a city which is pushing to create density for itself. To stop sprawl and has a culture \ country willing to invest in those changes. The US and Buffalo are the complete opposite. 90% of people still think that suburbanization is the solution and the best thing to do about our problems... is to move away from them.

replied to slowrollin99
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Sean do you have the link to the UB proposal? That might be worth revisiting.
I did not post the video with the intent of only focusing on the rail system. I find many great ideas and theories could be drawn from the Copenhagen example. Especially the implementation of the five finger idea utilizing bicycle lanes to arrive at public transport. It is the connectivity of it all that appeals to me. I think ideas of grassroots business owners is a good idea that goes without saying. I am much more inclined to move to a city that has something to offer beyond bars and restaurants. We already have some damn good ones here in Buffalo as well as some world class art spaces and venues. Those ideas are nothing new. So lets not act like Steel's video is anything more than echoed setiment of hipster clones. I am looking for depth and meaning. Something new! Lets look to academic journals, lets look beyond consumer fashion blogs. I appreciate your efforts Steel, I ask for more.


The clones of Doctor Funkenstein are surely D'void of Funk suffering from the syndrome. GOtta hit em with the Bop Gn. To you sir nose(steel) I say Lets get the mothership in here tonight.
Let me put on my sunglasses so I can see what they aint lookin at.

Again if you dont understand, it wasnt for you.


replied to Sean Brodfuehrer
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If you want more go back and read the more than 4 years of posts I have done here.

replied to slowrollin99
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Did you or did you not get this video from a fashion website?

replied to STEEL
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Not sure how I found it. It was probably a link from a link from a link. Does it really matter? How I found it has nothing to do with why I posted it.

Are you interested in a conversation about urban issues or your hatred of fashion? I am not interested in the later.

replied to slowrollin99
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"Are you interested in a conversation about urban issues or your hatred of fashion? I am not interested in the later. "

Then why the hell did you jack a video from a fashion blog and toute it as great ideas by youth for developing the city? I am not hating you for doing so. I just think you need to do a little more homework on the issue.

Yes I like to talk fashion, it is a major part of culture. Yes I care about Urbanization.

If you cared as much about "urban issues" as you say you do. I would suggest reading books about Buffalo like City on the Edge or Power failure. I really think it says alot when I get slammed for suggesting people do their homework and read up on the issue. Rather than just repost bs from a fashion blog.

"You hate on these people because they used this company as a way to get their word out? Why?"

FALSE I hate this company for using posers to sell boots while hiding behind the facade of giving a F. Do you think these kids went to the Palladium as a vehicle to get their message of hey I am a wealthy kid who opens restaurants or art spaces? Or do you think the company sought them out as a focus group? Seriously THINK THINK THINK!!!! you are burrying yourself.

replied to STEEL
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I really don't get what your point is and not sure why you have to insult the people featured in this video. I am also not sure what your fixation is with fashion blogs either. When I find something interesting on urbaism and architecture I post it.

replied to slowrollin99
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YOu did not find this Video.
It found you.
Funny enough I was just listening to EL-P's song TOJ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQUm8EZLjoo highly suggested

and sure enough. top right corner of the screen PALLADIUM BOOTS PRESENTS ad. I forget whether the ad was on YT or the lyrics site I visited. So even though I tried to escape this post. I have been drawn back in.

you ask what is my point? why do I insult the people in the video?

My point is to push you harder. Sh!T this debate/argument/lovefest we are having has pushed me to the library. I just picked up the book City on the Edge by Mark Goldman.

The reason I insult the people in the video is the same reason we are having this discussion. Because I love how advertising has the ability to veil itself and how easy it is to miss it. Even when the participants themselves do not understand the true intent of why they were chose to be in such a video. Idk dude but Im done. I hope you learned something from me. I have learned from you.


Why do you not answer any of the questions I ask of you? You just keep questioning my intent. The answer: To show you just been sucker punched by big advertising/marketing.


replied to STEEL
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So it is veiled advertisement? What's the difference then when a company sponsors an event? Is event "xxxxxxxxxxx presented by yyyyyyyyyyyy" veiled advertisement? It is certainly advertisement, but it is also the reason xxxxxx was able to take place. I don't have a problem with the video. They could have had Knoxville wearing boots or bras or whatever they wanted to advertise; I enjoyed the story and learned something from it. So to me it was "Lessons on Detroit Presented by Palladium Boots" or whatever the hell you say they're pushing.

replied to slowrollin99
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Good for you, Steel. A sane one like you stands out among the sheeple. Keep up the great work.

replied to STEEL
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Well, maybe to people in this circle these are not new ideas, but I do think that if you talked to most people in the country and said there are people working on opening cafes or bars to create a better Detroit... and they are white... they would probably look at you with shock and awe. Truth is most people think Detroit and Buffalo are dead, end of story. Videos like this or like your video show that whether you are looking top down or bottom up there are potential solutions to some of the issues and people who are willing to make them happen.

replied to slowrollin99
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This section of Detroit was dead! The guy in the video says that even the homeless left Detroit a few years ago. There are parts of Buffalo like that too. They are pretty much void of life. So a few rich young white kids live the cliche by moving into a dead part of the city. They aren't doing much to solve the real problems of the city. They are just living on daddy's dime while they do what they can to make a small difference in a big city.

Take a look at the video and tell me how many white children live here. How many of these young hipsters have children of their own. Will they stay when they have kids or will they opt to move out of the urban decay to raise their kids? Only time will tell, but in the meantime I guess it is good that they work off their white guilt and make a small difference while they are there.

replied to Sean Brodfuehrer
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I wonder what their reaction is to the demolition of all the residential properties. For every one done in Buffalo, they are proposing TEN in Detroit (1000 vs. 10000).

It would seem even tougher there to decide what to save and what to demolish. I wonder if there is a Detroit ReUse.

Interesting videos. I think Buffalos demographics are more closely related to Detroit, but they were interesting to watch.

Score: -2 ( 2 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

If you voted against my comment suggesting you read a book called Power Failure. You are a damn fool and really dont give a F other than to hate on me.

Score: -12 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

That was a really cool video and article, Steel.

His last comment is funny, though, about how Detroit Central is one-of-a-kind. Funny from a Buffalo perspective, of course.

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This documentary better explains the downfall of Detroit - "Requiem for Detroit" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReqG6qbx_c0

In either case, I believe there are plenty of good people in this city that are making a difference. You just don't see them, because they are working hard, and not blabbing about it.

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The problem here is that once anyone tries to do anything some politician wraps themselves around them to get credit and then the activist becomes a political whore.

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We are the second poorest city in the poorest country in the industrialized world,yes get over it look around you. Where an over paid union worker can get public assistance if you have a couple kids. No big box will save us. We have to help ourselves.

Score: -3 ( 5 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

the poorest country in the industrialized world? wtf are you talking about?

replied to bung
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Moderator please approve my last comment so Jag and all the hipsters who are against jobs and prosperity can read and understand. That is all. Thank you.

Score: -3 ( 7 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

lol, that's what I get for going out of my way to address you like an adult. I sure am dumb for not assuming you were one of the psychos.

lol, come on. You know all those folks are the same people. I don't know what could have been misinterpreted about your comment. Perhaps because you didn't address him as Sir? In the future, just act as irrationally as possible, insult as many people as you can, and fly off the handle as quickly as you can. And blame anyone for anything while inciting all sorts of incendiary, irrelevant discussion.

replied to jag
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Work your 50 hour a week job with out health insurance or retirement. Hop in your SUV on borrowed cash and sit in traffic to your over priced home in the zip code of the month.

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I never thought I would hear Diana Dillaway's name invoked again!

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What a lot of haters in this conversation (or at least a few vocal ones). Strange reactions to a very interesting video. I don't care who produced it or on what site it was discovered.

Anyone who believes Buffalo has fallen as far as Detroit is wearing blinders. Nice to see some energy and revitilization occurring. Hope it's the start of something transformative.

Most surprising information in video was the map showing San Francisco, Boston and Manhattan all fitting within the footprint of the city of Detroit. Amazing.

Score: 3 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

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