Paladino Wants Bass Pro (still)

It is interesting to see such an article without any comments yet. I bet: 85 comments by this time tomorrow. 12am.

Hilarious.

WELL SAID. But, too little too late. Buffalo will have to do without. We can still make our waterfront something special, it just will never achieve the level of economic impact that it would have if Bass Pro was a green light. People on here fail to realize that it is more than a huge fishing/ hunting/ aquarium/ "Outdoor World" mega store; it would have attracted the many shops and retailers we are now in search of. That was the plan all along. It would not mater if it was a fishing store or a store that sold old socks, the plan was to attract tenants. The mix of huge retail chains and our great local businesses would have been a hit! Retail chains will come, just not the huge high-end retail we seek. Oh well... lets see what happens, as we all hope for the best.

By the way...

This might be an alternative worth looking into!!! This could literally change our city and be a much larger economic impact than Bass Pro could ever be if this is given a green light!

SKYWAY TO THE FUTURE.

www.ranwebber.com

Does Carly know he's talking about a bait shop?
...wait, does he know he's talking about Buffalo?

Seriously? I think the disc is skipping. Mr. Paladino, oh so eloquent and subtle. I'm surprised the letterhead didn't have bestiality images. Oh, Carl. Always a shining beacon. Will we still have to endure hearing about Bass Pro in 2026?

Bison716: put the KoolAid down.

1. this Ran Webber Skyway to the future idea is absolutely ridiculous. Please don't EVER bring this up again. That monstrosity needs to come down plain and simple, not reuse it.

2. Carl hits the nail on the head once again. Too many Bozos stickin their nose in projects last minute and scaring off any potential development. He has been doing this his whole life! He is a business man who knows what is best for our city.

I plan on starting my business back in Buffalo when I get me gears grinding, but if this dog and pony excuse of a political system and these lawsuit-happy patrons keep their ways, Forget about it!

Can this guy please go away?

Heh... "Canal Place"...

Ugh. I bet Carl Paladino is sticky if you touch him. But don't touch him.

How about a combination Bass Pro, Ikea, ESPN Zone, and Wegmans?

Let's see, Carl says 3 million visitors for Bass Pro alone, so 3 times 4, carry the 1... so it's sure to be....
12 million vistors a year!

If each spends just $1000, that's $12 billion... all profit!

He makes a couple good points, but they are all vastly overshadowed by misplaced assumptions, short-sightedness, and a whole lot of not doing anything to help the situation.

He may as well start giving the White Star Line tips on how to build an unsinkable ship.

I was never a huge fan of the Bass Pro concept, but I belive Carl is right on here. Our leadership (or lack of) must the butt of many jokes nationwide. I once consumed myself in waterfront planning and other city planning dreams, but I could honestly careless at this point. If it happens it happens, if not I'll just keep going on vacation and enjoying urban progress in others metros.

Off to Chicago this weekend

Oh Carl.......I am so glad you have made "all this money" in your life...and that you finally have a seat and the table to be heard.

However, you are a true embarrassment to this area,and have the taste of, well, the Dollar Stores you would likely put at Canal Side if given the chance. Carl, what have you really done for Buffalo, that didn't look out for your self-interests first?

Buffalo has a long history (particularly in the early 1900's) of leadership by forward-thinking, visionary businessmen. Unfortunately, you just don't fit that bill. You are rather ignorant, self-serving (the fact that you would point the finger at ANYONE else getting a subsidy is laughable) and are boiling over with mis-directed anger. Please, just get some therapy and leave us all alone.

This guy is disgusting.

I wonder how annoying he is to the other developers when they have Buffalo Place meetings, ect. What a joke.

"Rep. Brian Higgins - took control of and destroyed a project that, for Buffalonians, would have been a dream finally come true."

I don't know anyone who thinks Bass Pro would be their dream come true. My dream come true would be to stop people like Carl from buying up important properties in Buffalo and leaving them to rot; or building new projects in the prime city lots using the cheapest possible labor and materials.

"But why listen to the development people who have been doing this all their lives?"

Because if Paladino is included in that group, then we're far worse off. Narrow minded incompetence mixed with a huge ego and an even bigger temper, that's not what we need.

Leave the development to the few left in Buffalo with any integrity, and leave politics to the same. I know there are still some out there, though they may have yet to step up.

carl, when you show that you can be a responsible steward of your own property (greystone hotel, lourdes church), all of them, not just a few showpieces, then we'll take your complaints about other people's stewardship seriously. if you had your way, we'd have a parking lot instead of the webb building.

if you can't get a hole in the greystone roof fixed, what makes you think you can fix new york?

The photo with Carl’s Sh!t eating grin says it all. Grad94 & Blohard said it best. This guy can’t manage his own properties yet he’s telling others how terrible they are managing the situation. Carl, you are as bad as anyone you mention in your little rant. You’re just trying to save face and look like the good guy but the bottom line is that you have done more single handedly to destroy Buffalo’s property and architecture then all the people you mention combined. Please move to Florida where Rite Aids are needed.

"Bass Pro is building in Illinois and in Tennessee where they don't have PLAs, prevailing wages, Wick's Law, Community Benefit Agreements, or obstructionists. Earning profits is acceptable there. Our community has failed on the watch of the obstructionists, yet we continue to listen to them as though they preach gospel. It simply makes no sense."

So true!
This city can't get out of it's own way. It's incompetence is sickening. Example: City paid $2 million to insure dead workers! Premiums covered 152 people as health benefits continued, even four years after death. "To be honest, it's a disgrace," SanFilippo told The Buffalo News. "It's a major embarrassment to the city and a $2 million slap in the face to taxpayers." OMG!

We have a business in Rochester and had plans to open a location at canal side. We are not so sure at this point. Our decision is based on having an anchor tenant. It doesn't need to be a Bass Pro, but something. Something that will bring millions of visitors, not thousands. It doesn't have to be retail it could be a world class tourist attraction. A bunch of small boutiques, bars, restaurants, etc.. will not cut it.

Let me give you the out-of-towner's perspective. I know nothing of the political wranglings mentioned in this letter, but I can assure you that Bass Pro would not draw me to that area of the city. If I want to go to the Bass Pro, I can drive 30 minutes down the road; a trip that I hardly ever make. I went a few times when it first opened and occasionally will pass through on the way to another store.

It is quite simply an out door store. Bigger yes but still quite similar to others you have in that area. If I am in the Tonawandas and need a tent, I am more likely to drive the 5 minutes to Gander Mountain than to drive into the city.

You, Buffalonians, have an opportunity to do what we have done in the Baltimore area and make an attraction that will draw millions of visitors a year. Put in a major retailer or two but don't make that the focus of the site. A small amusement park, aquarium, science center, Erie Canal history museum, sports museum, or something of that sort would draw far more people than Bass Pro.

One last not - Babeville - beautiful place, wonderful reuse of an old building and it did draw me into the city to see a concert.

Once again the Crypt Master has emerged from the twilight zone to hawk his fascist fantasies. What he fails to mention when adding up the sales tax and rent from BassPro (assuming that anyone would go all the way downtown to buy a fishing lure) is how much the company would suck out of Buffalo and into its headquarters in Missouri where it would be blown on Johnny Morris's bloated salary, an overpaid upper management
team, construction of the BassPro empire around the country, corporate perks, off-shore tax shelters, loopholes, national advertising, and anything else other than WNY. In the CM's bizarro world, WNY is owned by a handful of billionaire oligarchs who rake in all the loot while leaving a few low-paying jobs as a tip. They even manage to hijack a good part of our tax dollars to lease office space in their renovated
buildings and fly to Miami once a week as wasteful expenditures for the ECHDC. It is time to take our city back from the hands of the RICH ELITES and restore the Middle Class with local small businesses which reinvest in the area and provide good paying jobs with a future. Rather than some heavy retail ANCHOR, those small non-franchise restaurants and bars would flock to a waterfront which drew locals and tourists with its beaches, parks, unique museums, operating steam locomotives, old ships, old cars, old motocycles, bikes, skateboards, trollies, etc., the kind of interesting stuff people go out of their way and bring their kids to see, ride, play,enjoy.

Most of the print that I have read on Bass Pro was that they exploit an area. The corporate welfare that was going to them was a waste of money. Build the infrastructure, go cultural, go small quaint shops selling local hand made goods not Asian crap made by people making 50 cents an hour. Make it a park like setting with things to do and people will come followed by business.

On Carl...there needs to be a limit of buildings that you can moth ball until they fall. And a limit on the number of buildings you can own that are waiting for state grants. These developers should use their money to repair their buildings. How many buildings does Carl have sitting and rotting? Last one I know of is the nursing home on symphony circle. Nothing going on there. There is also a nice sized parking lot there doing nothing. If Carl cared so much about the city he would open it up for use or sell it. It is in an area that sorely needs parking.

He has done all right milking the city and the system. But his attitude has turned me off to even thinking about voting for him. I can’t picture him as the Governor of NY. Kind of like "having the fox guard the hen house."

Illinois does have prevailing wage laws and they did force Walmart to agree to a living wage before they could build in the city. Also Chicago has the highest sales tax in the nation. The state is broke and it has had 2 criminal governors in a row. Every city has obstructionists and NIMBYS including Chicago. Try building anything in Streeterville or the Gold Coast without doing what the residents want you to do.

Also many of the so called obstructionists in Buffalo are directly responsible for some great projects which otherwise would now be parking lots.

ECC City Campus
Guaranty Building
Babeville
Graniteworks
Web Building
Squire Mansion
The Mansion
Genesee Gateway

Obstructionists also prevented the destruction of Buffalo amazing millionaires row on Delaware which was targeted to be torn down for a bland box to house IBM - Thank God for those obstructionists.

Unfortunately there were no obstructionists around when the state stole part of Delaware Park and all of Humboltd Parkway to construct a super highway.

I am not sure if this crop of "obstructionists were misguided or not. I do not that Buffalo is a much better place today because of the so called obstructionists. Maybe that really is not obstruction.

Far worse to me is the obstruction caused by landlords who neglect their buildings causing dangerous conditions,destroying irreplaceable historic heritage, giving the city a bad reputation, damaging the value of surrounding property and adding unnecessary burdens to nearby residents.

You can sight the failings of Carl, the failings of our local government and you can defend the preservationists and obstructionists. Its all legitimate.

I am a big preservationist myself though there are only a handful of major projects remaining and Id like to see our priorities eventually shift into restoration and recontruction but that is another topic.

What cannot and should not be over-looked is that retail is not a high margin industry or a secure industry. A retail store can close within days especially if it doesnt bother with sales and just shifts its inventory to another more profitable store location.

Carl is absolutely correct...not about the preservationists which he calls obstructionists because thru them we came up with an entire canal district and the financial monies to make it happen.

Carl is absolutely correct...that you simply cannot layer PLAs and SLAs and union wages and living wages and other costs upon business. Particularly highly mobile, low wage and low margin businesses like retail. This isnt a modern day Bethlehen Steel where they have to pay higher taxes and higher wages or close a billion dollar factory employing 10,000 people. If Bass Pro or any other retail store doesnt make its numbers then it closes. No retail store is going to sign an agreement to stay as an anchor tenant if it doesnt make its profit numbers...or if it operates at a loss.

So...preservationists...I applaud you. Thanks to you we got a real world class plan and now the best thing we can do is just rebuild a historical district with flex space so that retail can come when it wants but the space can also be used for office space until a retail tenant is located.

So...government and unions and socialists and government leaches...once again you destroyed another opportunity for the entire city of Buffalo and the entire region for your own narrow interests.

That's why I am voting for Mr. Paladino!
I would rather HAVE jobs than no jobs minimum wage is better than being on the government's unemployment.

Honestly, this guy frustrates the hell out of me. He has the same passion for the city and this region as Bruce Fisher, tim Theilman and our inept politicans, but is on the "self serving" side of every arguement! Carl we see thru your ruse..so quite being such a douche and put your money where your mouth is! Develope the water front. Bring Bass Pro back to the table. And for Gods Sake quit lobbing rhetorical grenades from where ever it is you cal home these days.

Allentwnguy: "Build the infrastructure, go cultural, go small quaint shops selling local hand made goods not Asian crap made by people making 50 cents an hour. Make it a park like setting with things to do and people will come followed by business."

Buffalo already has this. See Elmwood, Hertel and your very own Allentown. These are great spots and offer some nice shopping and eating. But, small quaint shops and park like settings do not bring people from outside the city and outside the state to those areas. Yes, the occasional festival may bring people in, but it's not enough.
We need a world class attraction at canal side. Something that will bring millions of people to the area. Something that will create jobs and revenue.
I love cultural things, quaint shops and parks and want to see all of it at canal side, but that stuff alone won't be enough to generate the mass we need downtown.
I would love to see something like Pike Place Market in Seattle. http://www.pikeplacemarket.org/
The Pike Place Market sees 10 million visitors annually.

I don't get this Bass Pro thing. Even if you like the store, how often are you going to go? Is it exciting after the second visit?

Buffalo should emulate Baltimore and bring in lots of middle-end and high-end restaurants (Cheesecake Factory, McCormick and Schmidt etc.). If you like one of these restaurants, you will come back many times each year, year after year.

And if one of the chains were to go out of business, it would be easily filled with another chain. Try getting a new tenant for the Bass Pro store.

But Carl is correct. It is not the business of the government how much employees have to get paid. State and federal labor laws have to be followed. That's it.

Love him or hate him, Carl is always entertaining and he does make some valid points.

I only read this because I thought the press release would at the least consist of some off color jokes he was forwarded.

The Baltimore Inner Harbor was not retail led. Public space was constructed, cultural attractions were built, people came and years later when James Rouse saw all the people he realized the potential of the site as a retail destination. It takes time. It might be premature to spend such a substantial amount of public money to land a single retail establishment.

Also, when did the erie canal harbor need to become a retail center? Let's just say that we will never have an "anchor tenent," does ECHDC feel that there are no alternatives? Why not start with the historic blocks and lead with residential with some groundfloor retauarant/ retail. Clearly it's not going to be a power center and yes, the retail may struggle at first, but the emphasis should be on the creation of a neighborhood. Leave the aud block undeveloped for the time being. Start small and build over time. IKEA, the greek god of silver bullets, is not coming. Ever.

You're all a bunch of fools...go hop in your Prius with the EV stickers and Rainbow flags.
You all dislike Carl because he speaks the truth and you know it. A living Wage??? Union gig??? And you all wonder why noone comes here? Higgins is a joke, you all hated him for ROute 5 debacle and know he's a hereo? He's done absolutely nothing for this city but promote himself...you're all robots who will continue to elect liberals elitists as you collect your WIC and buy burner cell phones.

What is it with the mind set that a place of "destination", a place where people want to come and visit is a "gimmick" or Pie-in-the-sky silver bullet?

We need to stop this way of thinking. That keep it small, oh golly gee we're just little old Buffalo attitude.

Excuse me while all us business people go jump off the Whipple truss bridge...another ridiculous waste of our taxpayer money...

By the way...a public space versus retail will do nothing but turn into a neighborhood zoo with crickets and monkeys everywhere

Whether you want to admit it or not.....he is right. If you owned a business, would you want to come here now? We have: 1) chased away an anchor, 2)file law suits in and on places with absolutely no point, 3)believe that we need to "stick it to the man" or to big business or whatever(CBA), and 4) are ungrateful phony bast***ds.

If you can prove me wrong, then bring it..... But don't give me your BFLO pride bulls**t. Try to think as someone wanting to invest millions that you probably don't and never will have.

Good Luck!

You retail loving fools are way off.

First, a little criticisnm of Carl's rant: I'm pretty sure that the Bruce Fisher of the lawsuit is a very different Bruce Fisher from the Giambra administration. Giambra's Fisher is Scot's (Righteous Babe) brother. Artvoice's Bruce Fisher is altogether a different person. But, what the hell Carl. After all, when are you happier than when ranting?

Now as to the main idea itself . . .

Why, or why, would anyone want retail on this land? You can shop anywhere, fools. People are calling for Wegmans and IKEAs??? This is insane. I cannot see any attraction to fighting grocery shoppers just because I want to go to the waterfront. Higgins is right: the water IS the anchor. When you are in a store, what the hell do you care what's outside??

This public land where the Aud was and the canal terminus sits is a small parcel: About the same size as KMart on Broadway across from the Broadway Market. It's not a huge piece. It's about a quarter the size of the Central Park Plaza (which should also become park, imo).

Retail is notoriously fickle. It's fashion wanes much faster than other segments (residential, office, industrial). What is hot in retail today will be yesterday's news in twenty five years. In forty years, whatever we build will today be tired, out of date, desperately in need of a rethink and lots more money. The retail world of forty years in the future may be vastly different. Maybe internet kills retail like it did the classified.

But fifty years from now, park land will still be as fresh and inviting as ever. If it's done well, it will be cherished then as much or more than now.

A half century ago, we lost huge swaths of our park land. We lost Humbolt Parkway, Riverfront Park, we let the 198 bisect Delaware Park, the Front got decimated by the Peace Bridge and the 190. This is not a lot of land. It's a drop in the bucket, geographically, compared to what we've lost over time, but it happens to be located ideally for public use (metro rail, Arena, marina, Naval ships, Erie Canal terminus). People do use it now. So let's give a little bit back to a great Buffalo tradition: create a great public green space (and archeological site).

Quality of life, as others have argued, is the key. Buffalo doesn't need a silver bullet attraction. All we need is palpable authenticity. THAT is what will sell Buffalo to an increasingly undistiguished American landscape. Make this place an ideal place to live. Make it what we like. Then the tourists will follow. Not until.

O and here is a little like to show that some of the people with power, that are allowed to sit at the "table" are trying to help the city rather then hurt it.

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2010/08/16/story9.html

JSmity - the South Street Seaport is dead as a door nail. It has a crappy two-story mall that probably dates from the 80's. Who wants to be inside a crappy mall on a beautiful day.

They preserved the 18th century buildings, but most of them have chain stores.

An example of what not to do.

Like I said...Parks=Crickets and Monkeys

Coarse, mean brute. A perfect governor.

At least Paladino gets large projects done & they are usually successful & visually appealing...something that is somewhat unheard of around here lately it seems. Now do I agree with everything he says....nope. But we need more action/decision making and less talk. So many projects drag out for decades...to never materialize or underwhelm.

Paladino, with his millions of dollars, calling someone else an elitist...oh the hypocrisy.

We already have 3 anchors at Canal Side - the river/lake, the Erie Canal terminus/commercial slip, and HSBC Arena. With each passing month, as the infrastructure is expanded, we see more usage by the public. That is the proper role of government in development - 1) develop (& follow) a comprehensive plan, 2) provide the infrastructure, 3) utilize subsidies (very) sparingly to accomplish essential elements of the plan.

The Pan American Exposition was moved from Front Park to Delaware Park because Front Park was the most utilized park in Buffalo, and people did not want to lose its use during the Exposition. Expanding the public space at Canal Side makes a great deal of sense.

The 40 year regulatory agreement at Marine Drive Apartments ended several years ago, and although it's owned by the BMHA, future development still requires the consent of NYS DHCR. There should be public pressure on the state (isn't ECHDC a subsidiary of Empire State Development Corp.?) to put together an RFP for the redevelopment of Marine Drive into true market rate housing, and connect it visually with Canal Side.

Larry Quinn is a serious, and competent, developer. Carl is not. Non-stop anger rants are not an effective strategy for addressing our complex community issues, and Bass Pro is not a loss for Canal Side.

Bini - I liked all of your comments. I even thought you were trying to draw a distinction between the political Bruce Fisher when he worked for Giambra & the "new" Bruce Fisher who works at Buff State & writes for Artvoice.

Public outdoor attractions that leverage geographical assets don't work in 7 months of blistering cold and wind. Realistically, the only valid options for the waterfront are residences and office space.

I've heard several mentions of a "masterplan" for Buffalo's waterfront. Once in the News, once by Byron Brown, once somewhere else.. does anyone know if such a plan really exists? If it does it has to be one of the best kept secrets in Buffalo. The reason we are in such a fix today is that there has never been a comprehensive plan for the waterfront that has been vetted by the public and given their approval. So we need to begin at the beginning with this plan. Spell out what land is included, what are current uses and what are uses we want in the future, what infrastructure changes are necessary to make the new uses happen. I can hear the groaning now but this has to be done and with the right people can be done in six months or so. A lot of the work has already been done and the beauty of having a plan and sticking to it is that you need not have all of the changes in place to see progress. Simply the fact that there's a valid plan thats solidly in place and being followed will attract interest, people and projects/businesses. Why is this so hard for our leaders to understand? If you want to harvest in the Fall you have to plant in the Spring. If you don't plant in the Spring no amount of BS will get you a harvest in the Fall. (that folks is from author Stephen Covey.)

Quite the opposite RB09, I think its fairly easy to get things done if you do them properly. Thank you grad94 for the Erie Harbor Masterplan. It froze up my computer but I caught enough to determine its for the Inner Harbor only. Therin lies the problem. While everything in this universe is connected to everything else, its still necessary to address the correct scope of the problem here. While the Inner Harbor is the historical focus, the infrastructure problems and development potential are related to the Outer Harbor. The development crazies needed some economic justification and couldn't do anything with the Outer Harbor 'cause "you can't get there from here" so they proceeded to try to "develop" the Inner Harbor. Terrible mistake. Again, determine what land is either directly on the waterfront or close enough or adjacent so that it affects or would be affected by waterfront development. Determine current uses; determine future uses. Develop a plan to change infrastructure to make those uses happen. Concentrate on roads, bridges, rail, utilities etc. Leave most of the "economic development" to private citizens; no subsidies or handouts to big corporations. So far the infrastructure changes haven't been much of a change at all (elevated Route 5, Fuhrmann still an isolated street) so you see no real progress. The only part of the Southtowns Connector that made sense was the Tifft to I190 connection which was approved but not funded; that would have gotten some of the commuter traffic off of the waterfront.
Need to demand better of our leadership. Or change it.