If you build 'this', we will come.

First, get rid of the current ECHDC board - they've done nothing productive for years. Second, get rid of Benderson - they only want to lure a big ticket retailer in so they can charge high rents and be a horrible landlord. Third, do somehting to finally help turn this city around - put in a waterpark that actually attracts out of towners and then put in local restaurnats that keep the locals coming back and the out of towners returning. Finally, let someone like Rocco Termini develop the whole project and make it a success...

1)Medium sized grocery store (Wegman’s that’s the size of Lexington Co-op)
2)National retail (Gap, banana republic, Urban outfitters, West Elm, etc.)
3)Small Canals flanked with buildings that look like Pearl St. Brewery set up to house restaurants, residences, offices, boutique hotels, retail, bars, etc.

Just build it, the rendering have been great, just build it.

Tenants? Don't worry, they will come, it is a fantastic concept and the best parcel of land in Buffalo.

A mix of course, and make sure to include apartments and condos, people need to be able to live there (and own there).

-Indoor/Outdoor waterpark
-multiple ice skating rinks
-A permanent Bandshell
-Many more docks/transient slips
-A commercial/retail/entertainment boardwalk lined with storefronts ready for PRIVATE dollars to move in
-ESPN Zone and Dinosaur BBQ

Enough with the damn retail anchor...retail should be included but as a MINOR player.

Things that come to mind...

1) A venue for outdoor concerts, plays, etc. that could be used for free shows and paid shows. You could include a big screen here for folks to watch Bills and Sabres games.
2) Things like the water park, amusement park, year round skating, anything that will draw people other than shopping.
3) If you do a museum so something that can draw traveling exhibits much like the Strong or Toronto museums do.
4) Give a variety of restaurants, from the affordable to the upscale.

There has to be a draw for folks of all different discretionary budgets. A family isn't going to drop $50-$75 a pop to go to an amusement park often. But they may come down to a free event a couple times a year and spend it on food, beverage and maybe some shopping.

The idea of turning the DL&W terminal into a food market is one of the best ideas I've heard. Obviously, the terminal would need to become available for this to happen, but that's an excellent use for that building. Personally, I don't truly understand the thought process that this area needs to be retail driven. Restaurants and bars...YES! But stores like Gap and Banana Republic...I just don't see it. Maybe many years from now, once the area has density it could work. But turning that area into a shopping destination right now seems like a bad plan. I view a successful canalside as higher end boutique type retail...focusing more on art exhibits that also sell their products. Stores and boutiques like Toronto's distillery district seems like a better fit. This would also give Canalside a totally different identity from the rest of Buffalo. Just my opinion.

All green space, open use garden, Marxist Park, A statue of Tim Teilman. I'm trying to think of other nonrevenue producing ideas in which nobody would come...

1.) Sports Complex - Hockey Rink, Baseball Field, etc Fun to participate but also fun to watch. Stores will fill in for after the game drinks and ice cream.

2.) Rental store - Boats, kayaks, bicycles, Segways, Mopeds. Lots of ways to see the city.

I recently went to Baltimore for work and was very impressed with what they have done with their waterfront, including usage of existing building/new buildings with a historical look (there Barnes and Noble is amazing), aquarium, historical tours, tall ships, new retail, etc.

I feel as though Buffalo could take many notes from Baltimore revitalization of their harbor, it's a really fantastic place.

I really think a large scale aquarium could have awesome potential, it could bring in tourists, jobs, and possibly could be affiliated with one of the colleges in the area. Buffalo State's Great Lakes Center, UB's ERIE Program or River Keeper could work with the aquarium or preform research.

1) Batting cages
2) Snowboarding for kids (I know there aren't mountains downtown. Something simple for little ones to enjoy in winter.)
3) I agree with NorPark - ESPN Zone. On the one hand, I don't like the corporate lameness. On the other hand, people go there. I couldn't believe how packed they were when I checked them out in Baltimore and Manhattan.

Oops, never mind the ESPN Zone suggestion. Mr. Whatever, thanks for the link. I had no idea some of the ESPN Zones had closed.

Year round Water park
Mid-size aquarium with some of the exhibition area dedicated to the Great Lakes
Restaurants and public market

I agree with the logic that it needs to be inviting enough for people to continue coming back. I was at the Commercial Slip this weekend and there were a lot of people just walking around and coming in for the concert that night. A lot of people down by the hatch just sitting and reading and enjoying the sun. I think at this point, if they stick with the designs a lot of people will come down and enjoy it regardless of the stores or restaurants. However, if you want to make it a draw outside of the city and surrounding suburbs (which is key to long term success), you need a few things:

1. A true Buffalo transportation musuem. Incorporate all the options in one unique destination. Between the pierce arrow musuem, Packard Motors, the Ira G. Ross Avaiation musuem, Trico wipers, bell aviation, erie canal and all the other Buffalo contributions i probablt can't think of, you could have a substantial musuem and draw for car/aviation/canal/railroad enthusiasts. Have a substantial space included for traveling exibits like Body works which was a major draw, car shows, or to host exibits for the Albirhgt Knox or History musuem at times. This would attract school field trips and hopefully family's on weekends/summers.
2. A series of unique restaurants (Dinosaur BBQ, Dug's Dive, Anchor bar, etc) built in and around the canals. Dinners and family dining by day, but give way to nice bars and clubs at night. It would be a great destination for people to come and spend the entire day. Also, small canal boat rides could also be a fun way to go from place to place.
3. More landscaping/lighting. One of the things that really stands out in other cities is the ability to make the sites look appealing both day and night. being down there at night is ok, but once you venture a short ditance from the waterline, it loses all appeal. more gardens, flowers, streetlamps (not the orange glow kind, historic lights that fit the design)to make it entertaining just to walk around. more often than not, i will go someplace just to walk around and find myself having lunch, dinner stopping into small stores etc. Make it a real destination day and night.

The intention should be that this would be a place to go anytime for any reason. Not just for a specific store, specific restaurant or concert. The site should be the draw, and you go from there. Just like area's of NYC like Chelsea Piers or SoHo, the river walk in San Antonio, Old Town in Witchita, The Warehouse District in Cleveland, Navy Pier in Chicago... and so on. they are all destinations you go to for the setting, not one specific store/restaurant.

Before making specific suggestions, I think one thing should be kept in mind.

It's great to take examples from other cities and learn from other success stories, but here we're faced with the opportunity to truly do something unique. In marketing, the worst thing a company can do is copy their competitors. Apple built it's brand by being different. Cities are the same. Buffalo has struggled to establish a (positive) identity for itself on a regional and national scale. It would serve us best to build some kind of attraction that could not only be enjoyed by residents and visitors, but also serve as a representation of what our city stands for.

Can it be so hard to do something that's never been done before? Maybe, but I think this is a great way to start.

A large portion of the project should go into creating a “waterfront/canal side village” consisting of row buildings for a cultural museum, shopping, and residential. Build a bridge to the outer harbor that allows traffic but also continues pedestrian paths. Develop an area of park land/sporting (like a small Delaware park) with piers.

I also think an indoor water park could work as a piece of the project. Currently I think the closest (indoor) water park is in Ohio and it seems to do quite well. A water park could also easily be grouped with a hotel and restaurant and would be more appealing to families or teens during colder 7 months.

3 big infrastructure ideas:
1) get rid of the sky access ramps and replace the access ramps with Elm/Oak or Erie Street which will connect Canalside with downtown.
2) rebuild the DLW Concourse to connect with Canalside extending Canalside all the way to Michigan, open the DLW up to Great Lakes Cruise Ships.
3) create a master plan to integrate Canalside, lift bridge to outer harbor, Air/Naval Park-waterfront village-LaSalle Park. Keep the idea for ice skating on the canals in winter. Allow kayakers and boaters to go from Lackanna Harbor to Buffalo River to Erie Barge Canal to Scajaquda Creek.

(please no sports or carousels which are available at LaSalle Park or Flickingers by ECC).

3 big amenity ideas for Canalside:
1) bring back the Liberty Pole
2) rebuild LaSalles Griffin and one of 1812 Adm Perry Warships for our harbor.
3) rebuild the Spaulding Mercantile and the 3-4 story Canal buildings realistically but as flex space easily converted from retail to office to residential. If an anchor retail comes then they can go to Spaulding Mercantile. If smaller retail comes then they have the space. If not then it can be used for office / residential in the meantime.

Nope...no multi-level amusement type, regional attraction type architectural monstrosities that will go obsolete like main place mall after 10 years. Keep it simple and keep it flexible...so the space can either become a historical portion of the city or a retail office entertainment portion of the city.

1. Aquarium-Our zoo has some small aquatic exhibits and the NF aquarium is falling apart. Adults and children love an aquarium, look at Baltimore

2. Sports/Concert/Convention Center venue-We have HSBC arena which is great for huge events but what about the Buffalo Bandits or for smaller bands that cannot fill the arena. We have thses Rock the harbor and Plaza band events, why not make them work in the winter too. Also by having some convention center events here, more publicity for Canal Side

3. National Chicken Wing Museum-sounds crazy but a small museum showing the history, cooking demonstrations, and then have a few local restaurants standing by for visitors. Not full scale restaurants but maybe a stand (Duffs, Anchor Bar, etc.). I believe the annual festival is a hit, why not have a mini version? You could then also have some other local non-chain restaurants for those not liking wings.

I'd go with "Only in Buffalo" themed attractions. A big Sports Bar (think Jim Kelly's from early 90's) and Sports Hall of Fame/Museum. A Buffalo Brewery that offers tours and tastings and could be linked to the Sports Bar. A downtown Duffs or a Schwabels for beef on weck or both. Maybe some wine tasting rooms showcasing wines from the finger lakes and Ontario. You should see how those things do out here in San Francisco. Then other things will start to fill in. Throw in something for live music (shift the Thursday in the Square to this location) and an ice rink for kids (this could be the canal itself- like they do in Ottawa). There is tons of potential. Bass Pro out is the best thing that could happen. Use the money to incent local business peopel to take the plunge.

Though im absolutely disgusted with Buffalo's terrible track record of killing projects and stagnation over decades I will add a few "wish list items" that might bring some interest...

1) A nationally significant weather and lake erie maritime museum. I'm talking a weather museum complete with a Weather Channel studio overlooking the inner harbor.

2) Texas de Brazil (restaurant)- if you haven't been, give a try.

3) Some major out of town or relocated employers paying good wages(resulting in a net gain regionally) to fill up one of those large inland blocks at the Donovan or Webster Block. Additionally the city and region need more private investment and tax base. The city and region needs to stop losing people, income, and jobs. NO MORE SHUFFLING THE DECK within the region. Town versus town and city is B.S. petty and has NO impact on the greater economic stance of WNY. That town versus town layer upon layer of government and tax geographical micro-management mentality has been largely to blame for WNY's current state.

4) Bring back Hooters to WNY. Yeah its a national chain and yes its touristy but these are the types of destinations people go to. They buy the Hooters-Orlando shirts, etc. WNY doesnt even have one left. A waterfront location would certainly be more interesting than the Galleria or Maple and Sweet Home.

And...How about some sort of permanent home/ headquarters location for the winter sports scene considering the powder keg festival and the hockey tournament on the lake, maybe some sort of "lodge"? Summer uses would include a Charlottesville Pavilion-like permanent outdoor concert venue and a major Kan-Jam tournament type center.

- BMX track and skate park
- Lots of bike racks
- Mixed use commercial and residential, built to the curb
- Trendy clothing stores for skinny white 20 somethings
- a few more commercial steel storage shed museums

1) Anderson's Frozen Custard
2) Public garden, as in the Lurie Garden in Chicago's Millenium Park
3) Fresh seafood market

* Built a new high density T5 neighborhood; a mixed use community with ground floor retail, and residential and lodging above the ground floor. There should be no office uses occupying ground floor retail spaces.

* Attract a mix of middle to upper middle-end local and national retailers. Canal Side should make an attempt to attract "everywhere but Buffalo" retailers and quality sit-down restaurants, before they end up in Amherst Town Centre. Retail shouldn't be "boutiquey" a la Allentown, EV, North Buffalo, Williamsville and so on. Resist the temptation to fill vacant storefronts with low-rent retail uses; e.g. nail salons, dollar stores, drugstores, and the like.

* Canal Side should complement, not compete with Elmwood Avenue and Chippewa Street. Entertainment should be more family, single professional and adult-oriented; more of a place to take a date rather than look for one. Avoid drinking-only establishments.

* Avoid museums dedicated to obscure topics, or with permanent displays, where there will be few repeat visitors. Buffalo has enough museums where the exhibits are seldom updated; Historical Society, Buffalo Science Museum, and so on.

Why should we want retail here? Do you want the hassle of a major store right on your waterfront?

What should we do?

1. Public park. Make the open area large enough for concerts and festivals. Plant plenty of trees against the downtown perimeter. Put in lots of paths with interesting landscape features, a mini Central Park right downtown on the water. People would use it. Call it Harbor Park and call it a day.

or . . .

2. Authentic self sustaining neighborhood, developed over time. Put in infrstructure, recreate old cobblestone streets, stipulate design parameters and let individuals build their own things on lots they purchase from the city.

I'm starting to lean toward creation of a public park:
-It's relatively cheap to develop a park from bare land. No big tenant or parking subsidies are required. Compared to buildings, the maintenance over time is dirt cheap;
-A park won't syphon off existing business activity from elsewhere, whether that means Elmwoood retail or Chippewa entertainment or CBD offices or existing/planned housing;
-The opportunities are few and far between to create a useful and popular park, particularly in such a prime waterfront location accessible to so many. This one would be right on the harbor where lots of Buffalonians already are inclined to visit often, right on the metro line (can't say that about LaSalle), right outside the office for tens of thousands of commuters. Name another park people can frequent on their lunch hour outside, say, Cathedral Park.

The last thing I want to see on the waterfront is some McStore. What a waste of location!

to be clear, there are really two separate questions.

1. what kind of development would be best for the location? is it a historic recreation of some point in time, or an entirely new creation with no reflection of the site's past, or a combination of the two? is it compact, low rise, high rise, plaza, traditional neighborhood development, or whatever?

2. after which the decision of the site's content can begin - for example, youre not going to fit a stadium easily within the old street grid.

in any case, i stand by my previous suggestion - recreating the streetscape from a period of significance (you have to pick one - i like 1880) and subdividing the shells for retail, housing, restaurants, offices and a National Park Service Unit.

I've always thought they should build a museum that shows all of the previous ideas they've had for the waterfront that never worked out. They can slip it in under the skyway while they're at it.

Reading this is really saddening - sorry Expat network, but can you retract the post for the good of all mankind?

Some greatist hits so far:
"2. Authentic self sustaining neighborhood, developed over time..."
- ok I know you said "developed over time" but the post is asking what accomplishes your #2 which in your context was your #1. F-.

"A series of unique restaurants (Dinosaur BBQ, Dug's Dive, Anchor bar, etc)..."
- Ahh yes...Anchor Bar as a truly unique Buffalo experience. D-.

"Built a new high density T5 neighborhood..."
- I'm still looking up "T5". C.

"3. National Chicken Wing Museum-sounds crazy..."
- Yes it does! F.

"I'm talking a weather museum complete with a Weather Channel studio overlooking the inner harbor..."
- Your talkin proud my man!!! Where's my whammy weenie? D+.

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

Buffalo I hardly knew ya....

I actually think a skatepark would be a great idea. If there's any subculture in Buffalo that really thrives, it's the punk/skate scene. If sunday opened a store there, there would be a huge built-in audience of Buffalo youth, who would then patronize any fashion stores or cheap restaurants that open in the area. Do ittttt

Beyond that, I like the idea of an aquarium, or some green space - a well-designed park with the local atmosphere in mind, a la High Line in NYC would be a really cool thing to see. Local restaurants and retailers are a no-brainer. I've heard a lot about Dinosaur BBQ, and I think it would be great to see a location open up there.

This could be amazing, fingers crossed here

"1) Batting cages...."
Makes honorable mention, D.

I remember seeing a movie or some documentary where a person goes "if you have cancer in your arm and you know it, you don't wait a year to cut your arm off, you do it that day...".

I'm not sure what the context was, but the whole canalside thing - people still think a group or entity (i.e. this poll, ECHDC, government) is needed to 'decide' something - as if there is this huge demand and there needs to be some orderly process or lottery on how you build "it". My god does anyone think you can just plop down 18+ buildings and nail it? The whole process is flawed and the best thing would be do dissolve ECHDC, zone the land as commercial, make it green in the interim, and if somebody wants to build something they can work with the county or NYS and do it. What are these commisions / groups even deciding? It's a real shame. You could have had a park plopped down for the last 9 years and at least some use out of the land. Really really a monumental shame that people created this percieved need for themselves and had your tax dollars pay their salary the whole time. God bless you for even standing it another day there.

My 3 you ask?

1. grass and walkways
2. utility / water grid
3. process for buying a parcel in the canalside zone and for building something on it

- IKEA (have you ever seen the activity around those places?!)
- A respectable transit hub (Light rail, bus, car, boat [ferry?])
- An outdoor amphitheater on the water with lawn seating and visible from boats. During concerts, the water at Erie's Pepsi Amphitheater is as thick with boats as the lawn is with people. It could also be converted to ice skating in the winter (if you could survive the wind, that is.) Great site for the 2020 Powder Keg Festival!

I've also always loved the aquarium idea. WAY overdue and tons of opportunity.

1. Buffalo Museum of Architecture

2. Indoor/Outdoor Ice Rink
http://www.thedepotminneapolis.com/icerink/default.asp

3. Lucky Strike Lanes

1. well maintained lawns or plazas with plenty of seating and free wifi

2. a medium sized contemporary art gallery/performance space in an architecturally significant building

3. a well curated film and concert series featuring ascending talent

I like the bike- and skate-friendly suggestions; they are NOT silver bullets, but worth incorporating and easy to do. (Remember the micropark concept? Friday's news is an opportunity to return to it, at least for some of the C-Side public space.)

I was in downtown Silver Spring recently and its new skate plaza was packed with skaters and gawkers. Here is a link http://tinyurl.com/2fuaxb6 .

Also, this reminds me: is that Orchard Park bicycle collection still looking for a home? If so, it could make for a neat center/destination for cyclists riding the waterfront. Doable and uncommon.

- Dinosaur BBQ
- Legal Seafood
- National retail (Gap, Banana Republic, etc.)
- Downtown Duff's location
- the look and feel of around a historic area
- DL&W museum
- Apartments so people can spend money at the establishments at other hours than after 5pm and weeekends
- Indoor waterpark would be cool although there is the Great Wolf Lodge and one in NF
- Water Sports and alternative transportation rental (scooters, jetskis, kayaks, segways)
- a non-driveable tight street lined with bars and restaurants that has outdoor picnic tables to
- Beer Garden

See NYC's Southstreet seaport: http://www.southstreetseaport.com/

See NYC's Stone St. slideshow -
http://coedmagazine.com/2009/09/03/stone-street-nycs-outdoor-drinking-wonderland/664-x600-ft-afterwork-stonestt/

1. If you've been to San Francisco, then you may know about Fort Mason. It's a vast green space and water area with low-key art and interaction experiences. In SF, it takes place on the SF Bay. In Buffalo, the same could take place around the canals and on Lake Erie/Buffalo River. All would have garage door concepts that would open to cafes/service areas in good weather but could be enclosed and inviting in the Winter. Here's a link of the SF compounds and venues I refer to:http://www.fortmason.org/venuerental

2. For the most part, Canalside should be a passive, people gathering space that offers green space and water (or snow & ice) as the main draw...and about 10 restaurants maximum from soda fountain places (old Parkside Candies style) all the way up to locavore (Verbena style) to new frontiers (Sample style).

3. The "wow" factor of Canalside would be a giant, clear cover, roof with sides (think organic mushroom cap design) suspended over most of the area. It would be raised higher in nice weather to allow air and breezes, and lowered in inclement weather and winter. At night in any season, it could be a canvas of color and lights. Don't think garish as in Las Vegas Fremont St. Experience, but artful and Buffalo cool.

I believe that the best use for this area would be a mid sized outdoor concert venue. I love the feeling of the Lake Ontario Waterfront at Toronto with the Molson Amphitheater. Granted it would not be a hot spot in the winter, but neither is anything in Buffalo. It would be nice if boats could pull up and listen to music, people could lounge in a park, and there were a place to go on the waterfront besides the current situation.

Also some nationally recognized Street art that would be unique to Buffalo.

Something memorable enough where an American would see a photo of the piece and would say "Oh yea, that's the _____ in Downtown Buffalo"

To those that said Wegmans should be there... I'm an employee at Wegmans, and I highly doubt that the Wegman Family will consider building a store there that focuses on just take-out or restaurant style. On one hand, I can see such an establishment existing, with several chefs teaching residents of the area different cooking techniques, and recipes, and such, however, on the other hand, it would be so hard to get supplies there. Even if it is a small-scale Wegmans, the company would use 18-wheelers to get the products we produce down there.

Now, some suggestions. What I would love to see at the Canalside area are the following:

1. A research center that incorporates a partnership between several local universities and colleges (UB, Buff State, Canisius, etc), nonprofit organisations (RiverKeeper, etc), and private corporations (Environment and Ecology, Inc comes to mind) that focuses its research on the Great Lakes (i.e., invasive species, ecology, etc), and WNY ecology, as well the education of the public about such issues.

2. A building or two of Retail/residential/office space. I'm thinking about 5 to 8 stories, where the bottom floor or two are retail space, the other floors are residential, and the top two floors are office space. The retail space should be local businesses (like Spot coffee, or one of the local boutiques), but it would be nice to have some well-known brands. The residential levels could be for anyone, but I'm thinking students for local colleges. The Light rail is close (about seven blocks I think) and would be a good way to keep students in the area with such beautiful views of the lake.

3. Last suggestion: A small urban farmer's market, with a greenhouse to grow a variety of produce, and locally produced food (i.e., bread, baked goods, meats, etc).

I posted this in the other story but in Kentucky across the river from Cincinnati they have Newport on the Levee, it has some stores, restaurants, movie theatre, and high end bowling. It really sounds what like Canalside aspires to be.

Buffalo does not have any high end bowling allies. Anyone ever been to Lucky Strikes around country knows what I am talking about...Cleveland has one, it has bar area, bowling lanes, pool tables. Would be a nice addition to Buffalo in my opinion.

I would like to see an outdoor venue for concerts as I can't stand Darien Lake for them (the long drive, traffic jam after, etc.).

Everyone thinks of Canalside as just the area where the aud was. What a shame we could have had a new entertainment district from proposed Seneca casino down to waterfront with Casino, HSBC arena, restaurants, shops, attractions.

I truly believe there needs to be a multipurpose venue for all the seasons - have taste of buffalo., winterfest, etc . The waterfront is spectacular - let there be benches, places to picnic, cross country sking and a walking path in the winter.. restaurants, a year round market ( dare i hope for Wegman's or Whole Foods) .. I think a huge anchor store is wrong ... you have so many people moving to and already living in downtown .. give them a place to shop ,as well as visitors to the city ..find a way to be unique - celebrate Buffalo - it's food it's diverse people, it's history. I think that wil spread into downtown and put some badly needed retail ther e- in existing buildings.. what a mistake to raze the Aud, but there is no going back . we need fresh eyes , people who think green ...

1. Weather museum
2. Market in the DL&W Terminal
3. Light retail (cafes, bookstores, etc)

I know that it doesn't fit the theme at all and is not realistic but what if they rebuilt the Larkin Administration Building? That would make worldwide news.

An aquarium would be great if we can figure out how a bankrupt state could afford a $200 million+ facility. There's a private aquarium developer building one in Toronto but their work is really bad and cheesy. This IS a really good opportunity to take down the Skyway first while a different Canal Side gets reconfigured. If that were to happen, any number of possibilities could emerge.

I think that a festival marketplace with an emphasis on high quality local shops, restaurants and galleries would make an excellent attraction. Additional space could be set aside for national retailers like REI and Urban Outfitters to round out the selection. An Indoor/outdoor amusement park would be cool and maybe even an indoor waterpark. There are few anchors left and online retailing will probably kill off most of them. You have to provide unique, authentic experiences to survive in this century and most retail chains are by their nature doomed to fail.

And I agree about firing Benderson. They fail every test of creativity and out-of-the-box thinking. Bring in Westfield instead.

1) Drydock to work on Great Lakes freighters

2) A Quarry

3) Nuclear Bomb test site

A park is a very bad idea and here is why

In a few years the Union Ship Canal and Bethlehem Canals, City Ship Canal, the Buffalo River and the Harbor will be dredged to allow ships to continue entrance to Lake Ships.

It doesnt matter how many...its a question of access.

Once a date is set for that dredging all the cries for beaches and park will have new land for planning. We might even get a beach at LaSalle Park.

There is no real shortage of empty land in Buffalo so lets create some real people places and I agree...

Retail failed at Main Place Mall...and Paul Buffalo is right that we cannot have retail on Main Street and in downtown Buffalo plus Canalside plus the Outer Harbor when its developed...plus the Cobblestone district when its developed.

Yes...we need retail and especially good solid quality of life retail for daily living like grocery stores, markets, dry cleaning, florists, hardware stores, gas stations with mechanics, etc.

You want activity?

Legalize Weed
Legalize Prostitution
Legalize Open Containers
IKEA

Done.
Best. Shopping. Trip. Ever.

I-Max Theater, Bowling Alley, Mix of national retailers (H&M, Marc Eco, Le Chateau, Zara, Mexx, Banana Repubic, Urban Outfitters, etc.) with a few theme restaurants, urban chic hotels (W Hotel?), and something for the kids like a mega Toy's R Us (like the one in Times Square).

A lot of people are suggesting more green space and dumping the retail on this plot. With that, I ask: Isn't that what they're going to be doing with the outer harbor anyway? From the earliest planning stages, the outer harbor has been designated as public green space rather than commericial or residential and it will still be that way. Because of that, the inner harbor should continue with it's current plan but maybe instead of a giant anchor store, they should just expand on the mixed-use buildings that are going to surround the commercial slip.

i would love to see indoor all season recreation such as a driving range or bowling alley and also the waterpark would be nice. buffalo seems short on recreation that is not built around bar culture. even a chain such as dave & buster's would probably be successful. i would also love to see all of that balanced with a cultural anchor of some sort, music or an interactive museum. don't get me wrong about the bar culture....a few nice creative bars would be great too.

www.cinebistro.com check this site out, this is a high end movie theater/bistro/bowling alley/sportsbar. They just opened one up in this area (Hampton, Va). I am a life long buffalonian living in Virginia Beach (retired military). It is time that we do something big with our waterfront!!!

I'm thinking some type of local market like Broadway Market. Or maybe like a scaled down Quincy Market like in Boston. The anchor is already there; the water. People gravitate to the water. Winter or summer. Build to accomodate both seasons. Plenty of things to do in the warm months. They already have the concert venue at the harbor, which is great. That space can be used for so much more though. Movie showings, craft shows, food shows, boat shows, you name it. It needs to be a good mix of local business and retail. The main idea I would like to see is a Quincy Market type place at the Aud site. I think it's awesome in Boston and it would be awesome here too.

1.) residential - helps grow the city and provides a base for the downtown retail/grocery.
2.) retail - I like the idea of keeping it small and local. Anchor Bar/Duffs, Charlie the Butcher, a brewery, a wine bar w/ local wines etc. The area is suppose to be providing a bit of education about how Buffalo, why not celebrate the other things that make us great.
3.) museum of local interest - personally, I like the weather museum idea. Once you get outside the area, people really are fascinated wiht WNY weather. I left the area 11 years ago, and in every city I have lived, I am asked about the weather there. I like the comedy hall of fame idea propose a few years ago too.

Some of the other ideas are good too, but I think maybe a little better suited for the outer harbor, especially if a bridge is build linking the two harbors.

I know that telling stories on this story isn't what it was intended for, but here I shpeel...

All of these people talking about retail, parks, among other things have the right idea. but I feel as though this type of thing needs to develop its own identity, meaning we don't TELL what SHOULD come, rather, let it flourish into it's own unique space. Baltimore is a great example, and that's what everyone says. but we will not build a better Buffalo by copying what has already been done. Now I'm not saying that the area shouldn't be developed, but I think that the space needs to be organicly grown for/from development. We all know that nothing will happen over night, soooo since we've waited this long and have the opportunity we need to make sure things are aesthetically appealing to not only business but just the public to enjoy (urban planning) and what we have now isn't going to last. I think the planning stages need to be paused and re examining "little" things like, the sky way, and public housing that currently resides next to our supposed-future "destination".
Will what we have now on the books work? probably. short term. something new and exciting. but long-term growth as a destination is unlikely.

I'm just a kid and not an expert, but what I do know is that we need something, something uniquely: Buffalo

p.s. tear down the skyway.

and for my idea contribution: i think that the weather museum and exhibit that has been in the works is PERFECT for buffalo. when the time is right of course. http://www.buffalowaterfront.com/weather_experience_museum_center.php

What I'd like:
1) The Skyway and its clusterf*** of on and off ramps GONE!
2) Restoration of an original street grid ca. late 19th century, where feasible (I don't think the I-190 is going anywhere)
3) Plenty of residential to create a constant demand
4) A brewery (other than Pearl Street)

I still can't believe people are actually pulling for an IKEA. It doesn't fit. Big suburban box store in urban waterfront location. Aside from NYC, I couldn't find any IKEAs that are in an urban center. Regardless of the activity it could generate, it isn't a good fit.

Lucky Strike Lanes is a cool place. But I don't know if I'd sign off on it having sustained success. The Lucky Strike in Fourth Street Live in Louisville didn't survive and that is a busier and better managed area than Chippewa.

1. Arcade/Billiard Hall/Air Hockey. Aside from the standard toy and candy prizes for kids, include gift certificates to Buffalo restaurants and retail. This would draw families and offering Buffalo related prizes would create a reason to explore the city.

2. Performance space that could be open to anyone to use. Musicians and performers can use it to perform during predetermined time slots. Local artists can host their own art show. Local restaurants can set up samplings. People could host lectures and how-to demonstrations. Surround it with benches and some green space so people can just come down and hangout and experience all the culture we have hidden. It would create a reason for return visits, you'll never know what you'll experience.

3. If we are going to go with an amusement ride it should either be water themed such as a log flume, or a ferris wheel to get a great view of the lake.

Starting with a mix of restaurants, retail, and entertainment, these three ideas would round out the experience giving people a reason to come back, or spend an entire day rather than just a few short hours.

Skyway should be lit up like this to match the Peace Bridge...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/439305546_be3be39d67.jpg

I have an idea.

UB North => UB Downtown. Perfect. Or at least all the graduate schools.

Or just let Seneca Nation build their casino there.

(no, not a serious suggestion, but you know both would lead to crowds downtown.)

I still like the current plan. Cobblestone streets lined with boutique shops/national retailers, theme and local restaurants & cafe's, and nightclubs. But, an I-Max Theater, upscale Bowling Alley would be a bonus along with a few new musuems. What ever happend to the 'Comedy Hall of Fame' idea????

Step 1: Start over
Step 2: Let everyone have a say
Step 3: Finalize and start to develop
Step 4: Sue and stop

Stick to what you do best.

Who designed the canalside logo? I'll do it, free.

- A real public market
http://www.cityofrochester.gov/publicmarket/
http://www.westsidemarket.org/
http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/

- Dinosaur BBQ
http://www.dinosaurbarbque.com/

- Waterfront Weather Center
http://archives.buffalorising.com/story/buffalo_weather_experience_cen
http://archives.buffalorising.com/story/proposed_waterfront_weather_ce

1 - Large plaza/park; plenty of trees including large conifers for year round color, sound damping, and protection from the wind in the winter months.

2 - Amphitheater on some of the Aud site for free and payed concerts. Also a great multi use venue for various events taking place before and after HSBC events.

3 - Within the Plaza; small bar/restaurants/cafes with outdoor patio seating and vendors of all sorts; clothing, icecream, etc..

4 - Extend the canal inward into the plaza/park to allow additonal boating traffic to come down the canal and dock for an extended period of time. Once docked they can experience this plaza and patronize everything mentioned in bullet 3.

5 - Ice Rinks/ Skate Board-Inline Skate Park - Dual use

This entire plaza/park area once completed would also be a perfect place for the Powder Key Festival to conduct some of their events as well.

Among other things:
1. Space for the Buffalo Maritime Center, along with their boats, workshop, etc., and a tall ship and canal boat which they would build.
2. Move the Buffalo Fire Museum down next to the Cotter fire boat.
3. Move the bicycle and transportation museums to the waterfront.

Check this out. http://www.villagelandingmarketplace.com/

It's in Plymouth,MA and is pretty cool. Combines alot of what is said here. Locally owned, artistic, year round etc. Wife and I enjoyed it as did our kids.

I saw an Ikea commercial on tv yesterday...Time Warner Buffalo broadcast...odd?! LOL we also get Joe's Crab Shack & Sonic so I am not sure it means anything but thought it interesting seeing all the Ikea comments on here. Ikea likely belongs in Amherst somewhere or Cheektowaga. But any retail needs to be something not found at every mall in WNY...(Gap, Clarie's, etc.)

A small ~10k seat soccer stadium for FC Buffalo in the Aud footprint. Expandable for MLS down the road, accessible by light rail AND able to host big US National team games.

USA-Mexico in the howling Lake Erie winds of February would make everyone forget about the ne're do wells of Orchard Park.

1) A large park or green space would be a bad idea, it lacks the density to keep the park from becoming a breeding ground for all things criminal.

2)I would love to see tight urdan street plans, the cobbelstone works with this.

3) Entertaimnet/ residential focused and not retail focused

4) would love to see it as a music district, "anchored" by a house of blues or like establismentat the very end of main st under the skyway looking out over the water at the grain elevators. the grain elevators add to the house of blues feel. with other small to mid sized music venues of all genres, from coffee shop folk to small indie rock bars. Peppered with cafes and resturants, high and low end.

Then as the density builds retail would want in on the action and retail then could fill in the space and expand into the cobblestone district or into downtown. I theory the main place mall could even be viable again. By that time there will already be high end hotels and living there and down town can emerge as a high end retail destination with canalside as entertainment district, elmwood/ allentown for the yuppies and chrunchy types. cobblestone for small retail. Grant/ layfette district for the hipsters ( as i see it playing out), plenty of high end downtown living with all those damn lofts that are being built and nice neighbor hoods in the lower west side and allentown on up to the developing upper west side and elmwood village. Likewise there are some good walkable redevelopments on the near eastside too. All in a perfect world.

Canal Town.
A number of small, reasonably priced leases: Taverns, book stores, cafes, galleries, ice cream shops. This can start to build a critical mass that will draw local retailers, which in turn can draw chains.

Only Buffalo do the developers start by lauding their big priced penthouses (and big box stores). They come LAST - as a reward for a good development.

ikea

The center piece for the waterfront would be the "Buffalo Nautical Museum," an indoor and outdoor collection of ships, interactive simulators and historical memorabilia of Buffalo's glory days as Lake Erie shipping port and starting point of the Erie Canal. The ships could be authentic or reproductions, full size or scaled down, with bells, whistles, galleys, captain's quarters, crew quarters, crow's
nests, photos, tales of ship wrecks, storms at sea, notable captains of the Buffalo fleet as well as canal boat pilots and even Crystal Beach boat captains. Rather than the usual stuffy museum venue, the emphasis would be on interactive, steer the ship, ride out the storm kind of simulators and hands on feel of a ship whether it be nineteenth century
War of 1812 frigate, Great Lakes passenger sail or steam ship, Lake Erie iron ore freighter, yellow & blue pike fishing fleet, canal boat, lumber barge or Iroquois dugout or birch canoe. Adjunct restaurants could tie into any of these themes with plenty of window space for a view of the sun going down on Lake Erie. Niagara Falls tourism could be facilitated by passenger vessel service between the Center & Niagara Falls along the Niagara River in summer as well as a nineteenth century reproduction steam locomotive with passenger cars along existing rail routes all year. Building & creating would include the input of lots of volunteers and those wanting to live out their latent nautical dreams. Additional attractions might include a local winery & brewer co-op, taste of Buffalo restaurant co-op, ski slope co-op, reenactment co-op & Seneca Nation co-op.

Maybe a museum housing stories related to all the projects stopped by Tim Teilman. Hell, that would take up the entire space, so we would need to construct more sq. ft. 4 shops, etc, which would be eventually stopped by Tim anyway, so I guess no need to build them. What does everyone think.

Poodle/nazi girl????

1) Broadway Market

2) Science Museum; the current museum, although in a beautiful structure, is outdated and choked for expansion

3) Aquarium; The Niagara Aquarium is far too small. An aquarium at the site could host exhibits of both an exotic nature and have special focus on the local waterways.

If the common council does not transfer the land on Wed. The entire project may be in jeopardy, as well as the city. HSBC on the property will:

1)keep at least 4000 jobs in downtown bflo

2)bring these people to the canalside to increase business/ money spent

3)be attractive to business that would come to canal side

4)maybe give us new skyscraper

If the potential isn't seen by the common council, then this city is dead. This isn't about moving to quickly... THIS IS ABOUT NOT MOVING QUICKLY ENOUGH. HSBC needs to see that we are serious about them.... THEY ARE A MAJOR COMPONENT OF DOWNTOWN. THEY ARE NOT RETAIL....their business here is the heart of BUFFALO. THIS is not a little issue. HSBC on CANALSIDE may be the biggest turning point in the city in the last 50 years. IF they dont get flattered, they may say pce and hello amherst. please DO NOT mess this up. BASS PRO has left the building..... DO not LET THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR BUSINESS DISTRICT DO THE SAME.

This technically *is* three things, but first let me explain them. I think the key is to move away from a single retail 'silver bullet' and create a Multi-Use Cultural Center that does not depend on the success or failure of ANY individual participant. As a whole, the Bass Pro site should be a flexible space that can accommodate MULTIPLE attractions that are able to change, grow, fail or be replaced over time... sort of a mini-mall of history, culture and cuisine.

Specifically:

1) A food court with entirely local restaurants represented. Anchor Bar, Ted's, Antoinette's, Anderson's, etc. (No Sbarro or Burger King allowed!)

2) A cultural level with spaces for the city's many ethnic heritage groups, perhaps including a small performance space to be shared by all. Think of a miniature Hallwalls with tenants like the Chopin Society, African-American Center, Irish dancers, Italian Heritage, Broadway Market, etc. Even a scaled-down version of the NF Turtle could appease Native American interests.

3) A history museum level, with possible tenants such as an Underground Railroad museum, Architectural museum, War of 1812 museum. The mini-tenant format could also include kiosks for the Darwin Martin House, Olmstead Parks, Michigan St Baptist Church or any other agency that wishes to participate.

While such a facility would by no means include ALL of what Buffalo has to offer, it would provide a small sampling of our *best* to residents and visitors (a few hundred square feet at a time). Best of all, it would act as a GATEWAY for the agencies involved to bring visitors out into the rest of the city, if they choose, rather than confine the experience to a few blocks on the waterfront.

Visitors who are intrigued by the food could board a shuttle to the Broadway Market, those who are interested in architecture could gather here and take MetroRail to walking tours or the Darwin Martin House. And those who only plan to spend an hour or two could simply continue shopping in the retail portion of Canal Side, while planning their NEXT visit to discover more of the city!

It's not world class. It's BUFFALO CLASS. Achievable, flexible, and entirely unique!

This technically *is* three things, but first let me explain them. I think the key is to move away from a single retail 'silver bullet' and create a Multi-Use Cultural Center that does not depend on the success or failure of ANY individual participant. As a whole, the Bass Pro site should be a flexible space that can accommodate MULTIPLE attractions that are able to change, grow, fail or be replaced over time... sort of a mini-mall of history, culture and cuisine.

Specifically:

1) A food court with entirely local restaurants represented. Anchor Bar, Ted's, Antoinette's, Anderson's, etc. (No Sbarro or Burger King allowed!)

2) A cultural level with spaces for the city's many ethnic heritage groups, perhaps including a small performance space to be shared by all. Think of a miniature Hallwalls with tenants like the Chopin Society, African-American Center, Irish dancers, Italian Heritage, Broadway Market, etc. Even a scaled-down version of the NF Turtle could appease Native American interests.

3) A history museum level, with possible tenants such as an Underground Railroad museum, Architectural museum, War of 1812 museum. The mini-tenant format could also include kiosks for the Darwin Martin House, Olmstead Parks, Michigan St Baptist Church or any other agency that wishes to participate.

While such a facility would by no means include ALL of what Buffalo has to offer, it would provide a small sampling of our *best* to residents and visitors (a few hundred square feet at a time). Best of all, it would act as a GATEWAY for the agencies involved to bring visitors out into the rest of the city, if they choose, rather than confine the experience to a few blocks on the waterfront.

Visitors who are intrigued by the food could board a shuttle to the Broadway Market, those who are interested in architecture could gather here and take MetroRail to walking tours or the Darwin Martin House. And those who only plan to spend an hour or two could simply continue shopping in the retail portion of Canal Side, while planning their NEXT visit to discover more of the city!

It's not world class. It's BUFFALO CLASS. Achievable, flexible, and entirely unique!

How about a BRO coffee shop. There could be sections or lounges. The "cap lock" lounge for those that feel the need to "scream" at everyone to prove a point. The "I want want retail downtown even though I really won't support it" section, also the "we need a draw for people in the city but no IKEA or any other big national retailer that would actually draw people" section or lounge. Then, near the bathrooms could be the "I am going to call you a name for posting anything at all" table {thats a prime spot for those who need to p*ss on others to feel good]. Instead of Poetry readings, BRO Coffee shop could have rant evenings such as "I hate that design", or guest speakers could be invited on those evening such as Tim T. and discuse how nothing new in Buffalo should ever be built forever and ever and ever and I'm right. BRO "special" speakers could be anyone thats going to buy the Statler and do something with it [that would be a slow one, only once a year]. The patio built to the curb would be pretty busy and boisterous I'm sure. As per usual BRO Coffee shop would open with huge fanfair... HUGE, get tons of BRO press, but when it folds, you will never, ever hear about it....thats all

-Snowmobile trails that run all up and down the Lake Erie Shore with restaurants and attractions along side.
-Inner-tube/sledding area
-A large park with free WiFi access
-Dinosaur BBQ
-Some sort of outdoor venue for a summer concert series

Dinosaur BBQ
Farmer's market
Mini golf

Hsbc does no want to build a sky scraper, the want out of the tower due to all the time it takes getting places in the tall tower, they want larger floor planes. Expect multiple buildings with not more then 10 floors. They all ready own the the atrium building and would most likely build behind it near the cobblestone district on land that they own. This is just a ploy by the brown admin to try to side step the CBA.

1) Cool Housing - Apartments and Condos with ground floor retail. This is a reliable way bring people and dollars downtown, people spend money where they live. The first priority should be residential, which acts like a built in market for retail and restaurants that come later.

2) Water enjoyment - Parasailing rides! Tubing rides, Windsurfing lessons, Jet Ski rentals, paddle boat rentals, Kayak rentals... this seems like an obvious gold mine. I also like the Aquarium and waterpark ideas.

3) Infrastructure - Build a bridge to the outer harbor. Make a good transit station for the subway. Lay down a street grid and sidewalks. Build walkable spaces, leave room for people to sit and stay a while. Make it easy for people to get there and wander around.

Do those 3 things and the rest will fall into place. Retail and restaurants will move in naturally to serve residents and visitors. Small businesses will build patios, and waterfront cafe's

Don't lead with retail, lead with residential. We don't need another shopping mall downtown. First, we need people. We don't need a "retail anchor", housing will be the anchor.

There is a lot of underused space in this district, even beyond Canalside. This is the first step in revitalizing South Downtown.

Many good suggestions along with the usual folks who complain about lack of progress and those they feel are causing it. Frankly, we haven't made progress because our leaders want to jump to the end and get instant gratification. It all starts with designating which areas will be considered waterfront (A. Inner Harbor, B. Outer Harbor, C. Any adjoining areas that might be included) then fiugring out what use you want to put that land to, and finally changing the infrastructure to make those uses happen.Note that land use and infrastructure are inter-related but its not that hard to do because we have so dam much land available we can do almost any number of things save putting up a football stadium which will not fit (cut out the Ralph from map and try..it doesn't work.) Unless people want the staus quo the Skyway has to go. To do that you need to re-route Route5 over to the I190 (the only part of the Southtowns Connector proposal that made sense was the Tifft to I190 part and that they didn't do.) So do it. Next is connecting downtown to the Outer Harbor. The only public hearing on the Outer Harbor Bridge was a fiasco for the pols and DOT folks..seems every speaker got up and criticized one or the other of the locations; no one liked any of them. So now they are meeting privately with groups to divide and conquer. Here's my third infrastructure suggestion. Build a tunnel connecting downtown with the Outer Harbor. The DOT took a tunnel off the table stating it was too expensive at $240 million. That my friends sounds alot like the NYS guys who told us the Canal stones would explode when exposed. Take a short drive over to the Welland Canal and see the underpasses that take traffic under it. Ours would be bigger but still cost less than a bridge and have the advantage of no operators for the lift bridge, no traffic tie ups and low maintenance. Its also the way it was back in the 1880's.
Three picks:
1. Transportation museum (or the series of musuems a writer suggested) in the D&L terminal.. Re-buid the facade.
2. Old style grid streets with cobblestones since the elevated Route 5 would be gone.
3. Outdoor activities related to the water as suggested earlier along with plenty of green space,walking paths etc.

We need to get a plan together for the infrastructure first.

I think what needs to happen is have something other than retail to draw people like maybe a Buffalo Museum or a Weather Museum(vaguely remembering this) etc. I don't think an aquarium is a bad idea either especially if we can find a way to build it into the water.
Also a mix of buildings similar to Pearl Street Brewery, that are built to the curb and have a city feel to them. Maybe and just spitballing we can rebuild some historical building from Buffalo's past that were torn down throughout the city's history and rebuild them down there.
Develop it so it's something similar to San Antonio's Riverwalk. Every time I go down there I compare it to the Botanical gardens meets urban development. Walking through the River walk is amazing, it's a beautiful garden yet still allows restaurants to little shops to intertwine.
Lastly please keep out any franchises, it's one of the things I love about Buffalo is not everything is franchised. Mom and pop stores are what make this city and this area. I love it. Not everything has to be built at once let it develop, just make sure a plan is in place while it develops.

Just a follow up. With both the Inner harbor and Outer Harbor available I would recommend keeping the Inner Harbor as historically correct as possible with historical, passive recreation and patriotic themes ( tall ship or 1812 ship or canal boat in naval park, Liberty pole, water taxis[that was the only part of the Outer Harbor bridge oproposal everybody liked!] The buildings should be one or two story as a few have suggested with shops and restaurants but subdued and fitting in with the Erie Canal history. Of course the Skyway can't be looming overhead as it kills the mood. For those who want a comparison try Mystic Harbor, Connecticutt. Once you cross the street from the parking area its like walking back in time.
The Outer Harbor would be a whole different ballgame. Here's where the recreational watercraft rentals, ice skating, water themeparks, band shells etc could go along with a more modern setup for bars, restaurants, shops along with almost any other good ideas. There's plenty of room for all. There're already some athletic fields on Tifft, expand on those. One last suggestion, please help save the original Bethlehem Steel Office Building. It's a nice piece of architecture and would be an ideal home for the Steel Plant Museum. This is located on the lake side of the Father Baker Bridge in Lackawanna. Norm Polanski is wanting to give the current owners $2 million to help tear it down. Another example of corporate welfare; the owners could have saved at least the front portion simply by covering the roof with a ****load of blue tarps!! Keep those ideas coming...

Just a follow up. The Inner Harbor should be kept as historically correct as possible. That means any buildings are one or two story, cobblestone streets etc. Main emphasis should be on historically accurate stuff and maybe patriotic ideas like the Liberty Pole. Tall ship or War of 1812 ship, or canal boat would be cool. Period water taxis too (they were the only part of the Outer Harbor Bridge proposals that everyone agreed on!) This area , as one writer suggested would be great for lots of green space, walking paths etc (passive recreation accessible from downtown)
Of course the Skyway overhead would kill the mood so thats got to go. For a good example of how the place should "feel" visit Mystic Harbor Connecticutt. Once you park your car and walk a distance and cross the road you feel like you're stepping back into the 1850's.
The Outer Harbor would be a whole different ballgame. Here's where you would locate recreational watercraft rentals, water theme parks,ice rinks along with a more modern and diverse set of bars, shops and restaurants. Almost any idea that sounds decent could be tried here. The Weather Museum might be a good fit in the Tifft Nature Preserve and athletic fields on Tifft could be improved or expanded.

One last suggestion. Please take a look at saving the original Bethlehem Steel Office Building on the Hamburg Turnpike. The front portion is great architecture and would make a great location for the Steel Plant Museum. Norm Polanski (Lackawanna mayor) is trying to give $2 million to the current owners to help tear it down. Another example of corporate welfare; they could have saved the front portion simply by covering the roof with a ****load of blue tarps!

Keep those ideas coming in and thanks for all the good suggestions....

I like the way this thread is leaning, and hope that the folks at ECDC and the ExPat network take notice. Folks seem to be agreeing that retail will follow if an attractive magnet takes hold /first/. Retail by itself will not likely ever be a proper anchor for this project.

The other theme that keeps appearing is to keep it local. Sure, those who live in Buffalo want something that they can't currently find in the city... but there is little draw for visitors from out of town to go see something that they can do in their own hometown. Unless it's locally based, a franchise or national chain will only keep the little cash that's already here from going elsewhere. To draw visitors, we need something that is unique to the area, not a recreation of something else. One of the saddest anecdotes I've ever heard about Buffalo is people who drive past it on their way to someplace else, not realizing that there's anything to see or do.

I also agree that there are infrastructure issues involved like removal of the skyway and addition of a transportation hub. But placing these items at the top of the list will only drain the currently available funds and leave nothing for further development. I think a master plan is essential - but one that can be flexible to allow incremental development of the infrastructure. Plan on the skyway being here for a while longer, but take into account that someday it will indeed go away. Build the permanent portions in areas that are unaffected by it, and allow more temporary or flexible structures to fit under the big ugly bridge UNTIL it can be removed. This is a project that can evolve over time with a master plan as guidance. We've already seen what can happen by putting all our eggs into one basket, allowing a misfired silver bullet to crack them all at once.

1. Can we get a memorial for the Aud? RIP - MAybe a bronze dipped seat on a 10 foot base?

2. Rock climbing Gym and rental shop in the Grain Elevators across the harbor - Awesome application of reuse, see Oklahoma CIty. gear shop- rent kayaks, fishing gear, Bikes, etc. Maybe a destination for active people in the area - imagine, promoting healthy living, its almost preposterous.

5. A grocery store is key if you expect people to live downtown. Driving to Tops or wegman's is a pain and driving negates one of the main draws to urban living. Harris Teeter runs a two floor, small grocery in Downtown Charlotte - its not full service, but its convenient - I would expect people from Allentown to go to a DT store as well since its closer that Amherst street, if it is am upscale store, expanding the target population.

6. College/affordable rental housing alongside high - end housing to create a sustainable mix and draw more people into downtown who will spend their money there. Maybe something similar in concept to the rock harbor village project that has gone nowhere.

THREE IDEAS:

1. ESPN Zone + barnes & Noble building combo (both would have year round appeal- Buffalo is a sports town. Waterfront in summer, watch Bills in fall at ESPN zone, Sabres in winter. Coupled with book store for those more interested in that. MUCH better than Bass Pro... check out baltimore's combo: http://www.hardrockcafes.info/mappe/fotoshtm/fotos/baltimore04.jpg

2. In addition to #1, have another large mixed use building: Acquarium + some other type of Buffalo relevant attraction (possibly weather museum idea) Just for envisioning purposes, check out:
http://reefbuilders.com/files/2010/03/denver-aquarium1.jpg

3. large outdoor amphitheatre, which would move darien lake shows to downtown buffalo. possible site would be outer harbor once bridge it built connecting the land and development is approved for area. Think Toronto's Molson amphitheatre (but perhaps ours could be Labatt's Amphitheatre, or whichever sponsor fits best. Check out: http://krlphotography.typepad.com/photos/architecture/molsonamphitheatre1.jpg

IMPORTANT TO NOTE: these combo's would, for the most part, not interfere with Elmwood/Allentown success of boutique shops/restaurants and Chippewa's bar scene. (IMHO, the combo of these 3 ideas would fit great with the city of BUFFALO!). I'd love feedback on others thoughts (or other great possibilities)

Sorry for ythe duplicate post; seems to take a while to activate one..

I Vote yes to a HUGE climbing gym and outdoor sports hub (climbing, kayaking, biking ect) in the grain elevators. Brillant!

Do people who want the Skyway removed realize the 190 will still be there...LOL I know it is an obsession of some people to get rid of Skyway but take a ride in a boat under it as is now and I guarantee you will not find it as hindering anything. In fact, it is up so high you cannot even hear the noise. There are much bigger hinderances to development and better uses of money than removing it.

How about an indoor golf course or simulator? Not that I enjoy golf, I'm only suggesting this in the hopes that it comes with the condition that at least one of the courses in the Olmstead parks be removed so that they can be restored to their original purpose.

This might be a little difficult and expensive to do, but what about an indoor ski slope for the summer and/or an indoor wave pool/water park for the winter? People already assume it snows 12 months a year, why not capitalize on that, lol. And It's going to be some time before the outer harbor ever gets renovated to be the lakefront destination it should become.

Also, what about the possibility of a children's museum? Make it a family-friendly destination with corporate sponsorships from Fisher Price, and partnerships with the science museum, Albright Knox and historical society. I was never terribly impressed with the Carnegie museums in Pittsburgh, but the fact that they have four separate museums - plus their library - working together for mutual benefit is an interesting concept that works well for them.

Of course, the goal of any tenants should be to ENHANCE the attractions currently available in other parts of the city. Not replace or relocate them (except the golf course - much as people seem to enjoy them, even Olmstead considered them a perversion of his original plan and lobbied strongly for an expansion of South Park to keep them out of his master plan)

A master plan which was used in Atlanta on the site of a former steel mill is Atlantic Station. It bills itself as a live-work-play development. http://www.atlanticstation.com/site.php

The site is much larger, but lacks many of the features that Canal Side does (connection to mass transit, natural features like the harbor, and connectivity with the surrounding community). Of course, it was built in a much different economy during much different times, but its planning was both extensive yet flexible, and the property continues to grow and develop.

The main district is a mix of open-air shopping mall (which is weird because traffic drives through it) on the 'ground floor', several levels of apartments above the retail space, all of which is raised to allow several levels of parking under the entire complex. In another district, high-rise condos, hotels and office space share the underground parking. A third district is set aside for some cheesy and severely overpriced single-unit homes, and as almost an afterthought, left over space was used for a small lake and a big-box store.

The thing that makes the main district unique is the mix of retail and residential space, along with gathering areas, a bandstand, movie theater, various restaurants, exhibition spaces and the quasi-separation of foot traffic and underground parking (I think it would have worked better if they had banned auto traffic from the above-ground areas). It is self-sustaining because of the built-in residential aspect and hotels (which would be well advised for Canal Side) and adjacent office space (which is already in existence in the form of downtown Buffalo).

Where Atlantic station uses vertical layers, Canal Side could take advantage of the close proximity of the adjacent properties. The site of the Donovan building could be used for the majority of parking needs. The Marine Drive Apartments parking lot could utilize ground-floor or below ground parking, with residential units above. The Webster block and plot under the skyway could be a mixture of ground-floor commercial with residential above, and the Aud site could be the centerpiece building housing almost anything, or a combination of multi-purpose uses.

The key to Atlantic Station's success is that it has become both a destination AND a starting point. It continues to evolve from within. If not for its location being so rigidly fenced in, it would be able to increase desirability for the surrounding areas... which is something that Canal Side can definitely take advantage of.

I'd strongly suggest that the ECDC and Expat Network take a look at Atlantic Station's website and master plan for ideas on how to lay out a framework that allows growth on the canal/harbor site AND influences the surrounding neighborhood.

An exact replica of this would not work as well in Buffalo, but the cooperation of realty, retail, infrastructure and amenities is a lesson in how a strong but flexible master plan can smooth the way for a variety of developers to work together instead of a single, narrow-approach methodology.

1. Weather museum. Weather is hot in the world, interest-wise.
(Culturals in general: Architecture museum; Transportation museum complete with associated recreational facilities; Food institute, with internataional market and shops; large scale Design institute.)

2. Indoor/outdoor performance/sport venue. With indoor plumbing.

3. Recreational facilities: boat, bike, roller, scooter, etc. rental. Kite flying? Winter: skating/hockey, x-country skiing, snowshoeing. Fishing support.

Light retail and restaurants will follow.

And keep the area open and lit in the evenings, especially in the summer.