City Honors: Now You're Hired... Now You're Fired.

All I have to say is WOW.

First off, the Last In/First Out is a rule made by the Teachers Union. As they say, "without seniority there is no union"....

Now we should feel sorry when members of that same union, regardless if they want to be or not, gets bit in the ass because of the laws their union created? Just how the heck does that make sense?

Also find it funny that in all of your discussions, the only two solutions that could be found is to dump more money into the system that is located in a state that is broke.

You would think that a post related to math...someone could have looked at the numbers correctly.

Here is a solution. Not that it will ever happen but it is a solution. Get ride of tenure and seniority hiring practices.

It is not like NYS and BPS are ever going to be flush with cash again. This is just a reality.

Here is another observation. The teacher who was let go was probably VERY QUALIFIED for any teaching position and could have gone anywhere and that is before BPS spent $4k making them better. Not only this, they were rated as the best in department in a school that is rated as one of the best in the nation. Odds are this teacher is not going to have a difficult time finding another job, in another school district that is not in the same financial mess.

When will people learn....

Pathetic that the ONLY solution anyone can possibly think of is to get more money.

Also pathetic to name THESE teachers as somehow more qualified and more "talented" than, say, the 41st to 80th in the list.

Maybe, instead of whining to the Guv and begging for more money, you fools should consider getting your union buddies to eliminate the stupid law that's forcing the schools' hands.

Please contact Gov Paterson and tell him to keep on keepin' on, he's the only one in Albany that seems to care about spending. NYS IS BANKRUPT.

The HR policies of the NYS education system are ridiculous and impractical and this is a perfect example. It is shameful that teachers keep their jobs based on tenure rather than merit. Lazy, arrogant, self serving, jerks get paid as much as caring, hard working, dedicated teachers. Someone needs to create a merit based system. The two most important groups to a peaceful and prosperous society are parents and teachers.

I read in the NY Times today that most states are putting money toward next year rather than this year for the stimulus that the teachers received - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/18/business/economy/18teachers.html?_r=1&hpw

No, it isn't actually the union this time. It is NOT the BTF contract but rather NY ED LAW Section 2585 sub paragraph 3, to wit:

"Whenever a board of education abolishes a position under this chapter, the services of the teacher having the least seniority in the system within the tenure of the position abolished shall be discontinued."

You can blame the union for many things, but not this one.

Additionally, Jesse, I don't see where you're reading that these teachers are more talented than the 41st to 80th? Approximately the 40 last hires in Math and Science have been laid off. End of story. It is a travesty that they are being let go and something needs to be done to stop it!

Tenure is one way Buffalo can first attract qualified applicants. (fyi teacher applicants- other districts are less likely to have the large number of layoffs that Buffalo faces year to year in part because of the size of the district and the funding difficulties.)

More experienced BPS teachers, too, went through the period of time when they were first hired and most likely layed off. (Were they the best teachers then just because they were new or because they teach at City Honors?- I don't think I know a Buffalo teacher who doesn't try their best at which ever school or for which ever class they are assigned)

The culture of anxiety the NYS Ed Dept. and Fed. programs have created about 'better teaching, learning, test results, etc.' is the emperor's new clothes, really. Teachers and schools can always improve, but their is no changing [at least by the schools] who walks into a given public school or classroom and whatever baggage they bring with them. How can school districts and principals be failing so miserably, merit pay be applied, when there so many variables?

who care if its the BTF or whoever else it may be..Every other industry in the world hires and fires on merit and I am embarrassed that many extremely talented teachers are being let go because of the system set up many many years ago...It is unbelievable to me that teachers who are working the system, working far into their retirement age, making 80k and above and just coast along and dont care anymore. We have a new crop of teachers that are entering the world of teaching for the right reasons and are getting the shaft because of tenure....please someone needs to fix this system soon...

The school system has invested $4000 into training for the least senior faculty member? Well, how much more training do you think the teacher with 20 years experience has had? Would you really prefer to lay off the most experienced teachers first instead?

Sure there are problems with any kind of tenure or seniority system (and these are prevalent in the private sector as well as government), but they also serve a valuable purpose in creating a fair and impartial way of choosing who gets fired when the money runs out. Otherwise, you get into sticky situations with people getting laid off for political and personal reasons, or suing for wrongful termination and the school system having to defend itself in the lawsuit, etc.

I know someone who works in district who thinks that the majority of these teachers will be brought back. It is the typical game playing that happens in backwards Buffalo. But at the same time alot of talented teachers can only take so much and will seek other jobs instead. It is a shame.

by the way...the original Fosdyk-Masten School had a tower. It should have been rebuilt with the restoration.

and why do they insist on putting a modern addition on a period building...why not put an addition that fits the period and blends in...oh well...

lots of uninformed union bashing, I feel like I'm reading the Buffalo News. A couple of things, what is BR's evidence that these latest hires are some of the most talented teachers in the district? The horrible assumption that the writer is making is that new teachers are more qualified than veteran teachers, who are stereotyped as burnt out & ineffectual. That's Rush Limbaugh logic. For every talented new teacher there's at least three who are incapable of classroom management.

Also, a lot of claims that the last hired, first fired system applies only to public school teachers, this is completely invalid. I suppose that doesn't apply to dregs who work at convenience stores or Mighty Taco but in reality the last hires are almost always the first to go in nearly all professional fields. The American workforce does NOT revolve around any sort of meritocracy, we're often led to believe that but it is a fairy tale. I don't know if BRO actually pays any employees but if Seychew's stories get zero clicks will she be fired & some intern promoted? Finally, if these new teachers are such an educational tour de force they probably would have been snapped up by suburban districts (though I'm not discounting the fact that some may have been driven by altruism & sought out a position in Buffalo).

I've heard it's only a matter of time before this money does get filtered down to the districts. The goal is making sure it happens before school starts.

I believe the "most talented" probably refers to the fact that they were the first group of teachers (at least in Math) to ALL be certified when hired. I know many teachers who have been in Buffalo for years and are excellent (and also many who are not).

You can complain about the unions and say that the system should be reformed until the cows come home. I don't disagree. However, those are all moot points right now. The important thing is to try and retain these teachers NOW.

I can only attest to the talents of the two at City Honors and second what the article says about them. IB requires specialized training in order to teach IB courses and the IB Math teacher is getting excellent results. He is the only teacher in this geographic area actually trained to teach that course. The other teacher talked about has been equally successful in helping students with their understanding of math and her scores prove that.

I have written the governor and other local officials in hopes of stopping the layoffs of all these teachers and hope that others will do the same.

If you would be ok with this happening to your child - having other teachers shuffled into classes they are not trained to teach two days before school starts - then do nothing and keep complaining. If you wouldn't want this to happen in your child's classroom, then PLEASE take the time to let the governor know it's wrong!

We can debate semantics later, NOW is the time for action.

The teachers' union deserves to be bashed. The whole idea of tenure is an insult to the taxpayer. Count me among those incredulous that the only two possible solutions for this situation are either: a) more money for the teachers union or b) less money for charters. The charters already outperform the traditional system with only half the money per student. Hell, if the damned union had acquiesced to a single health care package, even these layoffs would have been unnecessary. Screw the teachers union! When they get real, then I'll begin to care.

As someone currently seeking a teaching job in the city and/or suburbs, I'm staying out of this discussion but would like to share a story I heard on NPR this evening about teacher ratings that are being released with names attached. This should definitely spark some debate among teachers, unions, parents, and everyone else involved in the world of education.

Here is the link:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129282823

This is the one thing I hate about BR. The people who know nothing about education babble on about it the most. Just like that reporter for the News. Nobody had the insight to look at the student populations of those 7 schools. Yes, there were token acknowledgmements that principals and parents had at least a little culpability. But, beyond a doubt, the blame was placed squarely on the teachers.

There is an stronng anti-union sentiment in this forum. Had it not been for unions, Buffalo (and other Industrial cities) would never have risen to to the levels in manufacturing and prosperity they did. I contend, and no one has to agree with me. But, the Middle Class rose from them. Unions were systematically disassembled over decades, workers lost their protections and support, jobs got outsourced, and the Middle Class disappeared in large numbers. Go ahead and scream the anti-union rhetoric all you like. With their loss, changes in public policies, and the greed for profits, the workers got what they deserved. That world is gone and it isn't coming back.Too late now!

Teachers have unions primarily for wage and benefit ngotiations. And, yes, they intervene in disputes. But most teachers are inactive in PACs.

Yes, it is very unfortunate that some young talent has to go along with some of the others. But, last one hired, first one field is the way things are done in most fields. But many people because of their ignorance on the reality of things think young is necessarily better. Sometimes.

How do I know the level of ignorance in this forum? These people don't even read local politics. How could I say that? If many readers keep abrest of the NEWS other than scanning articles about crime, they would know of the highly visible lack of morale in the Buffalo schools and the treachery inflicted on people and their careers by visciuos attacks by administrators and some times their cronies. There have been some very highly visible scandals. From what I hear from them is that it is the nature of school politics.

The purpose of tenure was and is to protect teachers from revenge and political assassinaton.

So, for those who feel as that reporter who ascribe to the same diatribe, wallow and relish in your ignorance. Some people think you possess such insight! When these issues arise, I can count on the same voices getting on this bandwagon ad nauseum just spouting their rhetoric using the same language over and over each time. It is like kids reciting poetry or the Gettysburg Address. They can do it flawlessly by having learned it rote. Everyone knows that regurgitating learned patterns shows the highest level of human thought. A sign of superior intellect!

Yes, it is indeed unfortunate that some of the young talent has to go when there are better candidates who it would be nice to lose. But, there has to be order and the fairest way to do this when these situations arise is to follow protocol. Most of the young people who enter the profession understand that this is likely to happen.

I am done here. Blast me with your ignorance. Like new teachers, I understand that I should expect the rehearsed diatribe from those same people. I'd prefer that "you" don't, but feel free to anyway. I have had my say and explained my position without ideological memorization. I hope most of you find me thoughtful on this subject at least.

If these 2 teachers are so outstanding and there is enough political will to accomplish an extremely difficult coup, you will have to follow some of the suggestions in the above article. I am going to predict that if these 2 positions end up being be saved, the total 40 will also need to be reinstated.
Teachers are not Mighty Taco employees.

Does anyone really believe Rush Limbaugh's statistics? My compliments to those who demonstrated a better understanding by presenting thoughtful ideas.

I was very concerned about the leadership of this forum when it apeared initially that the article was written by BR.

This news of letting go of math and science teachers was in other media before the Aug. 18th date of this BRis article.

That other media not only stated that math and science teachers would be losing their jobs, but, that same newsworthy report also included that more special education teachers are needed. Why and where and what sort of special education does that involve? What does "special education" mean in today's society?

I think the article was about saving ALL 40+ jobs - but with specific examples of how these cuts would impact City Honors....

Obviously, with the way NYS law is written, these teachers couldn't be called back without hiring the others back as well....

Sad, very sad.

The message this sends to the global community is that we're throwing in the towel and Buffalo will cease to be competitive in the race to produce the "best and the brightest" who'll be equipped to identify the innovations and solutions necessary to advance humankind in the 21st Century and instead, we'll be producing a generation of dependent dullards.

I can't believe that after all has been said about improving America's mental competitiveness this is allowed to occur. For me, this sordid recalls an old Harlan Ellison title: " I Have No Mouth and I must Scream."

@biniszkiewicz - bob, thanks for your always thoughtful and insightful analysis. I've worked both sides of the aisle - state employee for 19 years, private sector for 13.

In addition to being right (IMO) on the issues, you have the advantage of being 100% accountable. Real name, lots of personal details, and enough references to help readers understand how you arrived at your positions. All of your critics are anonymous - no surprise there.

What troubles me about this "article" (it's certainly not a news article) is that it presumes that there are only two solutions to the problem, one of which is to undercut the charter schools. Discussions of educational issues, including funding, deserve more logic.