City July 25, 2010 9:29 AM

When a tree falls on Main Street, who hears it?

When a tree falls on Main Street, who hears it?
Main Street has struggled to keep an identity over the years. The street has lost infrastructure and trees - sometimes these losses were unpreventable while other times the losses were caused by decades of neglect. Even now, when certain sections of the street are on the rebound, thanks to the growth of Medical Campus and Canisius, we still see cover ups like the one shown here at Delta Sonic. Why, when the rest of the city is planting trees, does Delta Sonic (and/or The City) decide that this urban block is better without them? How much money is The City spending on tree plantings each year? How desperate is Main Street for new trees to be planted on blocks where they have been decimated?

It was only recently that the trees lining the Delta Sonic block systematically died. I first noticed the problem last year. The location, directly across the street from Artspace, has become a city unto itself - one that has been built on cheap gas prices, decent filling station grub, and impressive car cleaning facilities. Delta Sonic knows its business. But do they know anything about what it takes to be a good green neighbor? It was actually in a BRO forum when I was first made aware (by Jes) that the tree beds outside of Delta Sonic were filled in with cement:

Does anyone know what happened to all the street trees on Main Street in front of Delta Sonic? There were about 10-15 trees all along the Main Street frontage, in poor condition. Almost every single one was dead or dying. Recently the trees were removed - but the tree wells were all filled in with concrete. Now no one can plant any trees there. Did the City do this, or Delta Sonic. Does anyone know?

How is it that this has happened? Does a business make enough money that it can simply decide what is best for the neighborhood, or the city, when it comes to trees? How did they die in the first place? That was pretty convenient considering the end result that we see today. There was a time in Buffalo that this was common practice along commercial districts like Main Street. Cover your windows with Dryvit, pour asphalt on the grass for additional parking (and no more maintenance), and contribute to the blight that has crept up to your front door. That was then, and this is now. Now these practices are inexcusable. The question is, "Who is to blame?" Another question is, "Who is going to call the culprit out for something that should be illegal?" Finally, "Who is going to pay to fix this blatant problem and eyesore?"

Unfortunately, Buffalo does not have a City Forester at this time period - that's fairly convenient for anyone who wants to kill trees and replace tree beds with cement (if that is what happened). We do have Councilpeople though, and I plan on talking to Curtis Haynes this week to see if there is a solution to the problem. If there is no solution, then this act sets a precedent for any other business in Buffalo to look at the Delta Sonic affront as an OK practice - 'make enough money and you too can remove your trees and fill the tree beds with cement'. I wonder how ReTree feels about this? We were once known as the City of Trees, not the City of Cement.

It's an ongoing battle. If you want to see some of the trees issues that we are constantly facing on Main Street, then refer back to this post from 2008. 
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This is a very discouraging time globally. Just think what this city could be like if only every individual just fulfilled their very basic responsibilities (including not just your abode but also where you live).

Side Note - I heard there was a city forester, or was that a transfer from forester to parks commissioner? If so, time for that one to also perform their basic responsibilities while using the skills he acquired.

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The city has little or no interest in trees unless it is to fine someone. When I first bought my house there were two trees (one on each side of the street.) Both had dead crowns with green growth on the outside skirt. I hired an arborist to come in and cut out the dead branches (they were falling on cars) and deep root feed the tree. It cost $360 but it didn't matter it was "my" tree and I didn't want to loose it. The arborist said not to cut anything off for 5-6 years...to let the tree get every bit of strength it could and then if it survived it could be shaped.

So that time has come and I called the city to ask if someone was qualified to do this. I got a ration of crap on how you CAN NOT touch a city tree...how I can be fined etc. At this point I'm not giving this *hole my address. And that's how this city gets into the condition it is.

"My" tree still needs to be shaped and the tree across the street died. It stood dead for a few years until new homeowners took it upon themselves to remove this 30 ft dead tree. Three guys, three chainsaws, three hours and it was gone. A week later the homeowners put in this beautiful (and expensive if you have ever priced one) 15 ft specimen tree. Congrats to them it looks great! I wonder if they ever knew how blatantly they broke city laws by doing something right that beautified the neighborhood.

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i wish the city had an equally proprietary attitude about its sidewalks. Even though they own the right-of-way, you the homeowner are required to clear, shovel, and maintain them.

replied to Allentwnguy
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Yeah or get fined! It's a shame we can't fine the city every time they drop the ball on something. Oh wait they would pay it with our taxes. Never mind!

replied to grad94
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The street trees may have been a condition of approval for the project as part of their landscape plan. If so, and if the City has such a process, their use permit (or other project approvals) could be revoked after a hearing. Extreme, yes, but the threat may be enough to get the jackhammers out. The tree wells were way too small judging by the fresh concrete in the pic. Even lollipop trees won't survive in that constrained space.

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And this is the company pegged to develop Canal Side? Scary. Has Benderson EVER developed something in the city to be proud of????

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Andy Rabb, City deputy parks commissioner is a forester. This property is in the Niagara council district.
When the Mid City office furniture building was still standing the trees were as healthy as the ones farther down Main Street at Summer. As the demolition and new car wash debate continued the trees mysteriously seemed to slowly die.
After delta sonic was built they were removed. Why weren't they replaced? The trees would "block the delta sonic signs".

Farther up Main Street, trees that were shown on the reconstruction plans were never planted. Why? Probably because the property owner did not want them. It looks terrible, like something is missing. Which it is. No one in city hall seems to care. We are a green city in name only.

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Who is the best person or department to complain about this? Filling in the tree wells with cement should not ever be allowed, and this isn't the first place I've seen it happen.

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The first and simplest step is to call 311 and register your complaint. Beyond that, you might want to investigate the route of permits and inspections, as WCPerspective mentioned.

replied to 300miles
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Can't we just get our trees and plant them in ourselfs??? The city can't even run it self, how are we suppost to just sit back and wait for them to plant a tree? I mean, really???? lol

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It is amazing to me that Delta Sonic would remove trees. The only reason i ever take my car to get washed is because the trees out in front of my house drip sap what seems to be the entire summer long. I love having them there but have secretly cursed them on a daily basis since i moved here six years ago. There has to be a better tree around than whatever was planted out front.

Which brings me to my next question, when planting new trees in the city, what is the best all around tree for quick growth, beauty, and the least amount of sap or other menacing fallout? There has to be an amateur arborist on this site somewhere.

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ok, i'll pretend to be an amateur arborist. for what its worth, take a good look at sycamores. i was told that they are drought-resistant, pest-resistant, and salt-resistant. they grow fast and provide a superb canopy over a street. they do shed seed balls, but every tree sheds something.

to see them in their full glory, go to timon street, off of best just east of jefferson.

replied to Scott Norwood
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Do you want something cheap, then go with standards.

Do you want something that will put on some sort of show or purpose.

It really depends on what kind of tree and what you want from it. There are canopy trees with a nice "V" shape for shade and protection from elements, there are medium and tall flowering trees (not often found in Buffalo are Golden Rain, Tulip and Yellow Wood), then there are fruiting trees like Chestnut.

There is even a tree native to Indiana but grows all over the Great Lakes, midwest, north east, midatlantic and even south. Its called a PAW PAW. They grow tall and they have big mango like fruit which have various tastes of custard. They would be used for an agricultural crop but the fruit doesnt travel or store well. However, someone could make a small fortune at a farmers market just picking and selling from a mature tree since once people and restaurants will seek them out. Its just one of those Buffalo things...that are native here...but no one has done anything with them.

I would suggest contacting the Cornell Cooperative which more a name since they have an extensive list of plants that can be grown in Central and Western NY. Plus being advisors to farmers they can tell you all about each tree's strengths and weaknesses.

Write a list of qualities you admire in trees and then call the cornell cooperative...they can help you take the next step. You would be suprised at how many trees are native to our region but arent carried in our local nursuries. Why would be another discussion.

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I've been calling for about 2 yrs just to get a trash can on Main St, near this spot. One trash can! Good luck getting a tree there.

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Luckily, Cornell has developed a small book with recommended urban trees. Download it from here:
http://www.hort.cornell.edu/uhi/outreach/recurbtree/

Secondly, do not think of planting the same type of tree everywhere. Even if a cultivar is resistant to a particular pathogen or environmental condition (root compaction [the difficult one in the street setting], wind, dryness, wetness, heat, ice, salt, SO2 damage, etc,) it may be susceptible to another one. If said pest or weather condition occurs, the entire cultivar may suffer. So you're stuck with a street of damaged or dead trees.

Plant suites of trees, with a repeating set of cultivars of various susceptibilities, growth habits, colors, etc. If a cultivar sucumbs to anything, you are left with the rest of the suite. The loss to the streetscape is not complete.

Think about it. Let's say a perfect tree variety existed and it never died of anything but old age. If we planted a entire street with it, all at one time, to get that consistent canopy everyone lusts for, they would all die at the same time!

More likely are the deaths of individuals tree. That gives the street a missing tooth look. Not attractive.

No, I'm not an arborist, but I did graduate with honors from the state forestry college.

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with all due respect to dagner, who has credentials most of us lack, that is practical but aesthetically dismal advice, the same way that vinyl siding is practical but dismal.

the urban streetscape has suffered tremendously from the loss of tree canopy to dutch elm disease, street widening, vandalism, abandonment. random mixes of dinky little liability-proof varieties can be pretty awful. [cue the chorus of 'it is better than nothing.']

not to upstage johnq/christy/lou as bro's most repetitive nag, but i urge everyone to go see timon street. the effect of a single species at full mature height is so magnificent and rare that we no longer appreciate its importance.

replied to Dagner
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I share your appreciation of Timon. It's a rare example of single species working, although I haven't tallied whether any trees have failed. And what will that street look like when they all die of old age? Which, I concede, for a sycamore, can be a long way off.

Do not disparage the concept of a "suite" of trees. It can have canopy trees, and the design repetition that the human eye finds appealing. It's a set of trees that are repeated, not just one cultivar. Some find it MORE appealing, as it can provide a variety of visual interest during the year. Some might be flowering trees, others feature fall color.

Just as our collective knowledge of monoculture problems has evolved, so should our design solutions.

Trying to build a cathedral canopy with a single species is doing an unnatural thing with a natural product. Stands of single trees exist in nature. But you don't see all the trees that died while they were maturing. When you plant them in two rows, natural death, enhanced by the stresses of urban environments, will pock-mark the design.

replied to grad94
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How do I choose?
Well, for a street I like a canopy...nice and tall...

and if it can put on a show like a yellow wood thats just a gift for the neighborhood

and if its fragrant thats even harder...thats just another gift for the neighborhood

something less visable that I consider...is the fruit attractive to birds. If you have a bird house or bird bath, love to see birds in late winter and early in the spring then these trees help.

Often cities can be terrible places for birds because there is little canopy and little food to attract them.

If you can find a beautiful tree that also helps attract beautiful birds to your neighborhood then you have really helped to make a change in your neighborhood.

Many in Buffalo would say I dont want to spend money on a tree but a series of good trees will raise property values significantly.

Last thought if you live on a side street in the city, consider starting a petition to have your street bricked/cobbled instead of paved. Also there is porous concrete...so you can consider a petition for your neighborhood sidewalks and streets to be made of porous concrete. If no one asks, its guarranteed Buffalo wont!

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Every city street department will tell you that most residents do not want trees that attract birds. Parkers complain about the droppings on the cars, as others in this thread have complained about the sap. The list of such complaints is long: pollen as it spoils the shine on their cars, fruit, seeds, nuts, and heck, could we do something about that untidy leaf drop thing in the fall. People "want" trees, just not the messy stuff of real nature.

replied to JohnQBuffalo
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Even though residents often don't want trees that attract birds, or have fruit, I say plant them anyway.

replied to JohnQBuffalo
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isn't Jeff Brett the City Forester? Can probably be reached through the Public Works/Streets department.

When planting a sidewalk tree, there is an approved list of species.The list is larger than one would think, but all are pretty resistant to salt/pollution/mess, but they want diversity to prevent another "Dutch Elm issue". If planting on your own, it's a good idea to get permission to do so. It's quick, and they just want to know what's out there... Going through Re-Tree is a streamlined and cost effective approach, but choices/size/quality are more limited

City right of way generally goes up several (about 10) feet onto a property line from the street. Nobody has the right to remove a tree w/o city permission in these areas. At least from I have been told in the past by city officials.

Has anybody (Buffalo Rising) asked Delta Sonic what happened to the trees? It's an ugly disaster w/o them. Runoff from their cleaning chemicals could have easily done them in. This is NOT a good thing.. or they just might want more sign exposure. Which is almost as unsettling..

From what I have heard, Main Street businesses were asked if they wanted trees/grass/brick in front of their properties. A reason an establishment such as Central Park Grill has just brick. They didn't want to be responsible to mow/maintain, so we all have to continue looking at a harsh, and uninviting Main Street..

A 3X3 foot sidewalk square is PLENTY of space to grow a massive tree with a minimal amount of know-how. Ever been to NYC?? One can find Ginko's over 50feet tall on many blocks smack in the middle of mid-town Manhattan...

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3x3 might be okay for the trunk of the tree, but only if there's copious space under the other sidewalk chunks.

East Aurora's new Main St includes a tree 'trench' that connects each tree well with the ones around it, giving the roots some space to spread out.

replied to hoss
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If they "control" 10 feet in front of my house, including some of my property then the least the city can do is respond in a reasonable amount of time when someone calls. Better yet I wish they would seed, fertilize and mow what they want to control!

One neighbor has called time after time to get a large tree de-limbed of its dead branches (some better than 10 inches in diameter.) Not even after one fell and did considerable damage to her car did anyone show up. One morning, from another tree, there was a crash and a huge branch was lying on the sidewalk. It could have killed someone. No city worker cleaned it up it was neighbors. The tree across the street...2 years being dead and dropping branches, the city was called numerous times...the neighbor took it down.

Too many city workers sit on their butts doing nothing collecting paychecks. Four man crews with one man working. Dealing with city hall is one of the worst things to try and do in this city. Sorry to say it's best just to go for it, get it done and enjoy the change for the better.

replied to hoss
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And the city should use techniques to improve the viability of urban trees. Cornell scientists have developed a soil substrate that provides the structural strength needed in the urban curb space environment, but which allows trees to thrive.

It's called CU Soil. They list the Old Falls Street- West Mall Renovations in Niagara Falls as an installation. Buffalo should keep an eye on it and try it.

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Problem was submitted to Buffalo's 311 system.
"Thank you for your recent inquiry to the Division of Citizen Services. This e-mail acknowledges your request filed on 7/25/10. The expected response for your inquiry from the responsible department is 8/23/10."

Everyone should submit problem to 311. The more the merrier.

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There is a good example of how unresponsive our city government is. It takes 30 days to receive even the most basic response from the government, and it will take another 30 days after resubmitting when this one isn't replied to, and another 30 days to respond to the request for clarification.

replied to peripatetic
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Always take care of your trees with or WITHOUT city permission. Trees benefit everyone, even the businesses behind them. Here are a list of NATIVE trees to choose from:

Balsam Fir
Striped Maple
Red Maple
Silver Maple
Sugar Maple
Ohio Buckeye
Red Buckeye
Downy Serviceberry
Allegheny Serviceberry
Devil's Walking Stick
Paw Paw
River birch
Paper birch
Gray Birch
American Hornbeam
Bitternut Hickory
Pecan
Shellbark Hickory
Shagbark Hickory
American Chestnut
Northern Catalpa
Hackberry
Eastern Redbud
Atlantic White Cedar
White Fringetree/ Graybeard
American Yellowwood
Alternate-Leaf (Pagoda) Dogwood
Rough-Leaf Dogwood
Flowering Dogwood
American Smoketree
Cockspur Hawthorn
Dotted Hawthorn
Washington Hawthorn
Persimmon
American Beech
White ash
Green Ash
Kentucky Coffeetree
Butternut/ White Walnut
Black Walnut
Eastern Red Cedar
Tamarack/American Larch
Sweet Gum
Tulip Tree
Cucumber Magnolia
Red Mulberry
Black Gum
Eastern Hophornbeam
Sourwood
White Spruce
Black Spruce
Red Pine
Pitch Pine
White Pine
American Sycamore
Eastern Cottonwood
Large-tooth Aspen
Wild/American Plum
Pin Cherry
Black Cherry
White Oak
Swamp White Oak
Scarlet Oak
Bur Oak
Chinkapin Oak
Pin Oak
Red Oak
Shumard Oak
Black Oak
Black Locust
Peachleaf Willow
Pussywillow
Black Willow
Sassafras
Mountain Ash
Mountain Stewartia
White Cedar/Arborvitae
American Linden/Basswood
Eastern Hemlock
American Elm
Slippery Elm


All are great. Some have different/ more desirable characteristics, research is needed to learn. Try this USDA plant database: http://plants.usda.gov/

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Trees are very important for any walk able environment. I own a store and a building on Elmwood and have no tree in front, I always wanted to put the new hybrid American Elm in front (Elmwood needs Elm trees), but need to have the sidewalk cut to do so. I would pay for it and install it my self, but I have no idea who I would need to get permission from. Any idea?

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I'm a big supporter of the American elm too, if anyone has ever seen photos of Buffalo streets before the disease we'd be a very different city today of it had never happened, but of course it's just part of the Buffalo Curse.

Those hybrids are OK, but they're not Amer elms, I know they planted a bunch in front of the Amherst town hall a few years ago & they unfortunaely all died.

I would contact the city forester regarding permission.

replied to urbanbflo
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3 years ago, I planted a Princeton American Elm in my yard - they are not a hyrid, but a true American Elm which have a proven 95% survival rate from all causes. Home Despot had them marked down to $69. It's now over 22 feet tall (approaching the attic window level) and is the classic Elm shape. Every branch has grown 3 feet, in the past month !

Grown by http://www.sharptoptree.com/princeton_am_elm.htm


ps - If nobody will care for a new street tree, it's usually doomed. While it's nice to imagine that trees will transform a neighborhood, there's no chance of that unless the residents are first educated to appreciate trees.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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The title of this article reminds me little of a zen saying that goes something like if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it does it still fall or something like that.

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Don't try this in EA, they will have your head; they being an all volunteer tree comittee. This group works with home owners to document, plant, and work with the Village to ensure the upkeep and maintenance of all village trees. It's interesting when people come to EA the first thing that many of them comment on is the number of trees in the village. It's no different with Buffalo; trees are an integral part of the cityscape.. put them back! Please:)

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