City June 17, 2010 10:42 AM

Use it or lose it.

Use it or lose it.
Just the other day a couple of us were staring at the grain elevators and silos, wondering what the process would be like to convert them to dwellings. I know that it has been done before in other cities, but the task appears daunting considering the scope of the project, the building materials (concrete and more concrete), the money, the historic nature of the structures, and of course finding the visionary who can pull it off.

Just this morning, a friend sent me these images from Copenhagen. Although this is an entirely different way to go about reusing a grain silo, I thought that the development was rather striking and forward thinking. Instead of building apartments inside the silos, developers were using them as a structural core upon which to build out from. There will be some who feel that this misses the point and that by covering them up the historic and industrial nature of the elevators are sacrificed. The flip side is that if you don't come up with a practical use for the architectural monuments, they may altogether disappear one day. Remember HO Oats? The interior of the silos houses massive atrium spaces, stairways, elevators and mechanicals.

silowfwfff.jpg

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Silo Point in Baltimore:
http://www.silopoint.com/html/

Calhoun Isles in Minnesota:
http://www.Calhounisles.net/site_home.cfm

Mill City Museum in Minneapolis:
http://www.millcitymuseum.org/

Grünerløkka studenhus in Norway:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grunerlokka_Studenthus.JPG

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Expcept for the Oslo silos (which look like a hideous East German detention center), none of your examples are/were at all like Buffalo's.

The picture that Newell put up is intriguing, I could see that on our Waterfront. Really, what else is going to be done with them? I don't buy the argument that just because they're a relect of our past they must be preserved.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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The point of these examples is to illustrate that adaptive reuse of grain elevators, in all their varieties, is possible. These communities didn't look at their grain elevators as a hindrance.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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Liveforever, I never saw those. They're stunning. Thanks for the link.

replied to liveforever
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Paul - Great examples.... I live about 6 blocks from the Calhoun Isles development in Minneapolis and it is a truly amazing conversion... My understanding is that they were very similar grain elevators to what stands on Buffalo's waterfront.... I have been in a unit (and nearly lived there) and the circular floor plans confirm it.

As for the Mill City Museum, they did not actually convert the elevators themselves... part of the elevator is still attached, but most of that conversion was to the mill itself.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Gardner, I've heard that Calhoun Isles has had a lot of turnover in their units over the years. Perhaps, the circular floor plans have presented unwelcome challenges to residents(?).

replied to Gardner
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I think Silo Point is the most comparable example to Buffalo's opportunity. Located downtown, on the harbor, similar features to...Cargill, i.e.

If our silos were deemed historic, the Historic Tax Credits that are about to be signed into law in NYS (which BRO still hasn't covered the story yet) would be a tremendous boon to the cause. Factor in the lift bridge, Canal Side..this could be another great neighborhood!

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Sadly they wouldn't, grain elevators are considered "structures" by the IRS and only "buildings" are eligible for the tax credits, at least the federal tax credits.

replied to urbanboarder
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Not exactly releated, but the Chelsea Market in NYC is a great representation of taking an industral facility and turning it into liveable, workable, shopable facility. One of my favorite parts is they have several bakeries where you can watch them baking bread and other goods.

One time after dinner we went there to get coffee and watched the workers flour, cut the dough and place it in rising baskets. It was so relaxing.

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Granville Island in Vancouver is another great example of transforming a former industrial area into a mixed-use public amenity...

http://www.granvilleisland.com/

replied to Chris
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I guess the only problem with the Copenhagen design (and they probably thoguht about this afterwards) is what if you have to get a couch or refrigerator up to your apartment? The first two floors are just smooth concrete. Maybe they use a pulley system or something.

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While, I'm not going to claim to have done thorough research on the project or anything. But my best guestimate is that they probably thought of that problem just before construction and decided to put doors on the building to get to the elevators inside. But who knows, pulleys would also be a creative solution...

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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What a brilliantly ignorant statement.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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There's some other challenges with grain elevator reuse in Buffalo. They're located in areas dominated by heavy industry, not on the edge of a neighborhood or downtown as what might be found in Minneapolis or other cities. Also, the housing market in Buffalo can only absorb so many new units a year; it's not exactly a growing "build it, and they will come" market. One problem with adaptive use downtown is its scattered nature, with no critical mass emerging in any one area. Grain elevator reuse will only scatter new city dwellers around even more.

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we lost the h-o because it was not landmarked and we allowed it to be demolished. big mistake. our grain elevators are so powerfully built that they will not be falling down for centuries. fortunately, buffalo has been too poor to consider the expensive proposition of demolishing them.

the best way to make sure we keep them for this or that reuse or to just be remarkable structures all on their own is to landmark them. considering their importance and our great fortune to have such a massive collection of them, it is astonishing that they are not protected in any way.

hello, preservation board?

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They are remarkable how? Let me guess, you'll reiterate the story of how Van der Rohe saw them & ushered in the age of Mistakism, I mean Moderism. Your description of them is opinion not fact. My great great great grandfather had a canal boat but I don't lament that the cesspool is covered by asphalt. We really need them as reminders of how much grain used to be stored here? Big deal.

replied to grad94
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couldn't agree more.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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sorry, my original reply of brilliant ignorance was in response to this blatantly ignorant and uninformed comment. I'd love to hear an educated thesis from "lester' -- and 'georged' -- as to why preservation apparently doesn't matter.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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A thesis huh. You must be one of those smart people who works in a college or something so anything I write will just seem ignoreant. For starters, they're ugly & take up too much space. How many malls could you put where some of these things are.
You provide no justification as to why they should be preserved. I think that's the essential question. Presrvation matters of course, but it's relative. Buffalo has a lot of these dinosaurs but they're not unique to the city & they really don't define the city's raisin de'ter as the French say. The Skyway was built to allow large ships into the Buffalo RIver, so should that be preserved too as a reminder of the city's lake shipping past?

replied to 1962
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Dude don't mention malls on this site! You will end up with 150 comments about the perils of sprawl and suburbia! I think you meant to say..."How many galleries could you put where some of these things are"....phew, good save.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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I guess in your mind if something is old than it must be historic and therefore preserved, even if it is ugly and useless.

replied to 1962
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How worthless is this reply. Pathetic. Say something...

Lester make valid points. Take an inventory of historic structures and prioritize. Then focus energy on the truly important ones, get historic status, and focus on renovation/upkeep. Transparency and organization would go far for the preservation movement in Buffalo which is disorganized, diseverything.

replied to 1962
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I'm pretty sure I covered those things.

replied to BusinessIsBad
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I wasn't responding to you.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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so enlighten me. what elevates your remarks above the level of opinion?

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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my comment directly above?
Buffalo has a lot of these, esp compared to other cities. FACT
They are not unique to Buffalo. FACT
They are ugly. FACT
They are big. FACT
Malls are always busy, people enjoy using them. FACT

I kind of compare these things to a nuclear power plant's cooling stacks, like three mile island, or any similar plant. in a hundred years (assuming that place is vacant & still standing) are people of that town going to say "Let's preserve these structures because they are part of our town's legacy."I doubt it, same kind of aesthetically mundane, unpleasing structures. QUASI-OPINION

replied to grad94
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Lester, we get it: you don't like grain elevators and you don't think they are important. Millions of people disagree with you so don't you wonder why?

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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Millions? Actually it's probably more likely in the billions, . It's not that I dislike them, I'm simply using them as an example of how preservationists can get a bit carried away. It's not like if they're torn down people will be looking at old photos in future (like some do now about the Larkin Building, German Insur, Buff Savings Bank, etc) & wax nostalgically over them. Well, maybe grad94s great grandchildren will.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Lester, I would suggest that the world has paid as much attention to Buffalo's grain elevators as Buffalo's most precious downtown buildings. (I'm still mad that the H&O grain elevator was dismantled.)

I can understand considering replacement of any structure if something better will be built in its place but no one has proposed a development for the area that the grain elevators occupy. They are not in the way. If waterfront development were to be successful, these elevators -- perhaps, not all of them -- may play an important role in the future.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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not unique to buffalo? well, they were only -invented- here and transformed buffalo into the largest grain port in the world.

malls -always- busy? not the main place mall, and not a host of others who got hit by the recession. the market for big enclosed malls is saturated and american developers pretty much stopped building some time ago. the buffalo market is already overserved by retail space.

they are ugly? that's your opinion, and i thought personal opinions were unacceptable on this thread.

big? ok, you got one right. here's a pat on the back.

so if they are that worthless and expendable, it should be really easy to find an expert (historian, architect, etc.) out there who agrees with you. go to it, buddy, and report back to us when you find one.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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"historian, architect, etc" I think you meant to say a meaningless expert.

replied to grad94
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yes, because we already have already heard loud and clear from the ignorati.

replied to BusinessIsBad
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Get over the mall thing, it was a joke. Like I expect a grain elev to be torn down & replaced by a mall. A Benderson strip plaza, possibly.
Who besides a small handful of Buffalonians knows that they were invented here & that we were the grain port of the world. Even if this was common knowledge & taught to kids throughout the world in elem school, what is the likliehood of more than five people caring? I can pretty much guarantee that there will never be grain elevator tours as there is with Wright houses/structures.

replied to grad94
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now the mall thing was a joke? i thought it was a FACT.

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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How is the Buffalo area overserved by retail space? Do you have any knowledge about retail realestate? Obviously you dont or you would otherwise know that Buffalo has some of the lowest vacancy rates for retail space in the nation.

replied to grad94
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I love it. You site Artvoice. Why not Noam Chomsky? Where can I buy weed grad?

replied to grad94
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So we should just tear down everything because ignorant people should determine what is best, as opposed to EXPERTS like the ARCHITECTS.

yeah - I'll let you decide what's best...

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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I don't think you can call architects experts on land use.

replied to JohnMarko
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Oh, of course not - we just deal with it on a DAILY basis in EVERYTHING we do.

No - we're not experts at all on land use...

replied to LouisTully
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thank you !! finally someone capable of showing respect to smart commenters.

replied to JohnMarko
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My favorite industrial conversion is the Museo del Acero in Monterrey, Mexico. http://www.exhibitfiles.org/museo_del_acero
There are remote mining museums in the southwest of Britain for people to discover while they're hiking:
http://www.cornish-mining.org.uk/
These are World Heritage sites and worth a visit for anyone interested in industrial architecture. It's enlightening to see how other countries deal with their industrial past - and it doesn't always have to be about loft conversion or retail. The notion that there's no money locally to spend on these initiatives is a weak argument given the kind of cash that was shelled out to turn our lakefront into an 8 lane highway.

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Interesting.

But butt fugly!

Too bad they didn't have any GOOD designers except cheap tackky casino hacks...

replied to Jas
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Wild timing, Newell! Nate Neuman and I are in Copenhagen now and we saw, and took many images, of this very development area earlier this afternoon!!

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"Buffalo’s heritage in many ways exemplifies the golden age of American industry, when the nation ran on a full head of steam. Smokestacks, steel mills, and *grain elevators* still signify for most people the essential industrial scenes. Despite the fact that today’s industrial landscape contains few of them, those monumental works of the nineteenth century afford us a visual and symbolic resource on a scale unparalleled by anything we have created since."

"Even in its dotage [written in 1995, before today's comparative resurgence] the city epitomizes the energy and aspirations of nineteenth-century America better than almost any place anywhere."

-david plowden

http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/1995/4/1995_4_8.shtml

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so you spent all afternoon trying to dig something up to justify these things and all you can find is a quote from the last century and from a dictionary? I give up. go ahead and keep them. you're right they're beautiful & important.

replied to grad94
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still not able to find an authority to testify that they're worthless and expendable, huh?

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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"The grain elevators of Buffalo are a symbol of the city's great past, however they are no longer relevant and should be taken down immediately because they pose a threat to the surrounding areas. Plus they are aesthetically unpleasing to the eye." Dr. Montrose Worthington, 2008.

I have found other quotes too.

replied to grad94
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Don't even bother responding, Lester. This is a blog you don't need to support your arguments and opinions with a bibliography in MLA form. If grad94 thinks that is necessary, I suggest he set the standard and do it himself in all his posts. One subject-matter expert for each argument put forth sounds like a fair requirement, eh grad94?

replied to LesterCzepnakski
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personally, i prefer chicago style, but we all know that lester's quote is fictional. mr. 'just the facts' fabricates his own evidence when he can't find any out there in the googlesphere.

unlike you, i provide links to other peoples' work when i quote them so readers can judge for yourselves the author's arguments and credentials.

replied to LouisTully
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A topical article about the proposed adaptive reuse of a grain elevator in center city, Philadelphia.


http://www.philly.com/philly/home/20100618_Changing_Skyline__Bad_plan_for_a_city_landmark.html

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I'm done with all this bickering, Im going to have some pierogies and vodka and think about how these strutures can be reused.

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more reading for those whose attention span is longer than a blog post:

http://urbandesignproject.ap.buffalo.edu/pub/pdf/concrete_atlantis.pdf

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I just dont see many of the grain silos being re-used.

Bio-fuels (butanol, ethanol, biodiesel) are all moving rapidly away from food stocks like corn and sugar, rapidly moving away from cellusic stock like switchgrass and towards bio-engineered bacteria/algae).

Potential re-use of the silos was killed when Barilla chose Rochester for their Pasta manufacturing plant when they could have easily co-located next to General Mills.

The only truly great building on the waterfront that can be rehabbed is the ADM/Great Northern...and the Great Northern would have to be completely rebuilt because the silos are structural.

I just doubt that its worth the investment in carving out the interiors of the silos or building the outside of the silos for residential or commercial use when a new build would be faster, cheaper and have more resale value.

Hey just an opinion...in any case...they are concrete...they are not going anywhere and it will take a very long time before industrial development from Lakeside Commerce Park or downtown commercial/residential use approach this area.

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Why bother? Just knock the elevators down and do something more relevant. How is it that nobody complains about steelmills and refineries disappearing but suddenly some decaying old grain elevators get the tears rolling?

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#1 welcome back. Havent seen you here in a while.

#2 Id agree with you if there was pressing demand to use the land that these elevators now occupy. If someone wants to build something nicer on these sites, tear em down. But for now there isnt much to be gained to demolish them on speculation.

Also, although it is not what it used to be, there is still demand for using these structures for bulk commodity storage. The Lake-Rail elevator was just rebuilt and sold for grain storage and most of the elevators on "Kelly Island" are still in use.

replied to sonyactivision
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True. There's no hurry on demolishing them so unless something better comes up, they aren't much bother. But if I had a choice of spending $200 million to do this Copenhagen makeover or try something different, I'd opt for sticks of dynamite...

replied to The Kettle
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BTW, I'm not slamming that project in Copenhagen. It looks quite cool. The problem is that Buffalo has too many HUGE grain elevators and a lack of people that would buy into one of these schemes, IMHO. I just think that either they can be restored to working condition and used as such or everyone should just move on. I can think of so many cooler things that could go into Kelly Island unhindered by those concrete monoliths.

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On a smaller scale, I like the historic notion of old barn silos (no longer used) and wonder why these are so picturesque.
Would the US Border Patrol Military have some use for the grain elevators?
(Make these into radar or weather stations or something?)
Let's ask a fifth grader for ideas! They think creatively with no budget in mind!

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I read an article about saving the Mellon Arena in Pittsburgh, I found it related to this type of discussion.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10174/1067462-437.stm

Basically this Swedish Company wants to build a Giant Garden, pretty cool concept and I can visualize using these Silos as a base.

http://plantagon.com/international/greenhouse/

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