food May 18, 2010 8:00 AM

Nelson Starr: Buffalo Chow (Part Two)

Nelson Starr: Buffalo Chow (Part Two)
After bravely naming names and taking Buffalo's journalists to task in his final post at BuffaloChow, food blogger-cum-journalist Jeremy Horwitz was kind enough to field some questions relating to that controversial post in Part One of this column. Thank you Jeremy for your insight. 

Since this topic seems to be in the zeitgeist, I figure I better weigh in on it before I become irrelevant or, worse yet, cease to wildly tick people off again. People are counting on me for that, if nothing else! 

Although I am quite sympathetic to the complaints and suggestions of Jeremy, I think the project of critical review (be it relating to food, fine art, music, literature--you name it) contains, at its center, a troublesome kernel of pure subjectivity that I'm not sure any procedural algorithm--no matter how well-intentioned and vigorously applied- can meaningfully transcend. Translation: I dig and respect everything BuffaloChow is urging with respect to good journalism, I'm just not sure that ethics is the biggest issue preventing insightful discourse relating to food and restaurants in WNY. Furthermore, I'm not sure true objectivity is possible pertaining to things that derive so intimately from our senses. 

Admittedly, I have no doubt or dispute with JH that it's far better for a reviewer to avoid, say, sheer graft in exchange for positive reviews, or that anonymity should theoretically give the reviewer a more "average" experience. If you're going to do reviews and call them "reviews", as opposed to "features" or "articles" and the like, yes, what Jeremy advocates is most likely the best, most ethical, way to do them. So, then I would never argue with the AFJ's Guidelines (or for that matter, The Code for Food Bloggers, either. Thus I agree with Jeremy and his basic gripe that publications claiming to do proper food reviews should do a far better job of adhering to ethical standards. Personally, I feel that this is a bigger problem at a big-city newspaper than at a blog, for instance, but, precisely in this case, Buffalo deserves to be singled out for a scolding.  

My only rejoinder is that, sadly, even if you follow these guidelines down to the letter, it doesn't necessarily yield "the truth" about a dish or a restaurant. And this is also a serious problem, mainly for the diner looking for valuable guidance. It's the same problem that has made me want to blowtorch Rolling Stone magazine every time their review staff trashes an album or artist I dig and then praises some talentless wanker. This is age-old and deep.

nelson.jpeg
One problem starts with the use and over-extrapolation of the term "objective". That term smells of a certain arrogance to me--like a braggart constantly making claims and boasts he just can't live up to. This is because bundled into the term "objective" (in this context pertaining to food) lies the assumption that, if you follow certain review guidelines, you can ascertain something beyond mere opinion when it comes to matters of taste and other aesthetic judgments. But that's not necessarily so, and may be practically irrelevant. One need only to watch the bickering judges on Iron Chef America to ascertain that the same exact dish, under identical rules, can (and often does) conjure wildly different opinions concerning it. At its base, appreciation for food or any other artistic product starts with a very personal sensory experience-- subsequently filtered through reason and experience (i.e. culture, upbringing, etc.). 

I don't want to argue for total relativism or, worse, solipsism but, let's face it, "you like vanilla, I like chocolate" is not too far from what I mean, and that's the eternal problem. On top of that, even if the reviewer is as pure as organic Irish cream (because he follows AFJ guidelines to the letter and is a highly ethical person whether at the table or away from it), it still doesn't begin to obviate these secondary issues, biases, predilections, experiences, or sub-conscious agendas that any person, including a reviewer, surely has. Claiming that anything close to true objectivity is even possible in this realm is, to me, almost silly, no matter how laudable a goal it would be if possible.        

So what are we left with beyond some "oriental haze" (to quote Hegel)? Since we all probably agree that a fresh baguette is superior to a stale one and that restaurants that kick-ass are superlative to those that suck-ass, how do we assess food and restaurants without having to personally audition each and every one? Publications? Word of mouth? Advertising? Yes, to any and all of the above! The caveat here is to take all these opinions--informed, ethical, fraudulent, even intoxicated--with a fat-fingered pinch of salt (preferably Fleur de Sel de Guérande). I read reviews. I get information from reviews. But I never really believe reviews, or at least I don't swallow them hook, line, and sinker. I sniff around the edges, but I don't drink the Kool-Aid.

If I had to, I'd rather follow the culinary advice of Jeremy who tirelessly works the seam (so you don't have to) and uses the latest technology and policies to get the job done. I'd also probably more or less ignore the ramblings of old ladies who wear bad hats to Sunday brunch. But that, for me, has more to do with Jeremy's credibility and impeccability of taste--yes, that ineffable but prized quality--than his journalistic procedure. He has good taste! There's nothing all that objective going on there. Rather, it's more apt to call it, think of it, and accept it as some kind of taut subjectivity regarding aesthetic excellence, good taste in food in this case.  

Alas, as it does for Jeremy, it all also comes down to trust for me. But unlike Jeremy, I don't necessarily care all that much if "my" reviewer happens to be hanging out with the dishwasher snorting coke behind the dumpster as long as he's "my" guy and I know his taste and mine are generally in-sync (no, I'm not referring to Tony Bourdain here, everyone knows he prefers heroin anyway). 

Honestly, I almost think that what's most important critically is that I, the diner, be the harsh critic of the critic, in order to find one I can trust. Forget about what this or that esteemed reviewer has to say about this or that esteemed restaurant. Instead, I want to find a critic or blogger that I can relate to, not so much because he is anonymous or observes certain strict standards but way more because he likes the same saucy wings I like or because she likes the dirty dive bars that play Brit-rock nice and effin loud. I'm looking for simpatico, not credentials, aesthetic judgment as opposed to aesthetic methodology. 

In our bloated blog world, this is not only possible but preferable. Instead of going with one or two big-time journalists, I might rather browse various unscrupulous but savvy, hip, and connected bloggers that I trust anyway or "follow". Or in the case of BuffaloChow, was the best of both worlds. 

I can't tell you how many times I've disagreed strongly with totally ethical, experienced, well-meaning reviewers, be they food or film critics, etc. What I'd rather look for are critics that I agree with most of the time. Beyond that, I'll be taking my chances, no matter what safeguards are ostensibly in place. Jeremy and Christina were like that for me. Following the rules certainly didn't hurt their work, and I'm sure it made it even better. But it was their taste, their keen sensibility and clear headed judgment, that I'll miss a whole lot more.

----
Buffalo Music Hall of Fame-er and rocker Nelson Starr is known as one of Buffalo's most influential musicians, composers, and producers. By bringing celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain to Buffalo and developing his own hit food show, All Access Pass with Nelson Starr, Nelson has dedicated himself to highlighting the region's food finds. From pub grub to haute cuisine, Nelson is game to explore anything "that rocks" with his signature sarcasm, egalitarian ethos and philosophical outlook.


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I'm confident that the only troublesome kernel is your writing style. my sense is that you are trying to be clever & cunning, yet it comes across as ponderous, pretentious, & a serious pain to figure out what the hell you're trying to say. it's amatuerish to try fool the reader. I made an honest attempt but could not get more than a third through the article.

as an aside, the horowitz's would get my vote to supplant the dinosaur at the news.

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I liked the look of Buffalo Chow and the effort that was clearly put into it but the couple behind it (or maybe just the guy, hard to tell) seem like such a**holes. They couple their - we are the only true food reviewers in town schtick - with a copyright hostility not seen in many sites (large or small but particularly small) and the combination makes their whole effort totally off-putting.

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Yeah, you're right, I forgot about that. I retract my vote.

replied to omonahan
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Omonahan: The copyright warning was written as a blunt deterrent to the theft of images and text that we've dealt with in other endeavors over the years. It worked in a way that none of the numerous more friendly ("Please don't steal") or passive ("All rights reserved") notices we've tried in the past could accomplish.

It's worth noting that the infringement warning generated comments from maybe five people in a two-year period (including the one above). The funny thing is how wildly agitated these people became over a warning to copyright thieves - sort of like getting worked up over Disney World over the "no trespassing" or "no parking here, your car will be towed" signs in the parking lot. As I explained to one of them, the warning wasn't put there for the average reader. It was for the lowlifes who operate skimmer sites and steal content rather than creating original content of their own.

Re: "the only true food reviewers" thing, we fully support having numerous voices in the local food/restaurant discussion - so much so that we provided specific suggestions to readers on how to contribute to that discussion with both text and photography, even going so far as to ID the specific camera that takes great shots in restaurants. We want to see more people talking about Buffalo dining and spreading the word - honestly. That was the whole point of the site.

replied to omonahan
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* worked up at Disney World

replied to Jeremy Horwitz
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Seriously, what is this? A two-part "story" outlining your hypothesis on food reviews? We don't need some metacognitive explanation of how food is best reviewed. Just eat some food and tell us if it's any good. You try to make an intelligent case, but you just come across sounding like a pretentious douche. "I don't want to argue for total relativism or, worse, solipsism..." Drop the psychological babble and try using some prose. So far, I've seen 3 "pieces" on BRO that you've written regarding food reviews, not a single of which has actually included a food review. You're a joke, man. Quit trying to rip off your idol. You're actually embarrassing him.

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Snap!

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@BuffaloNiagaraPlanner, clearly you don't get the point of this article.

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The way I read it, it's a debate about whether food reviews can be objective; it’s about whether readers of food reviews actually digest reviewers' critiques (pun intended); and the difficulties reviewers face in “getting it right.” My point is this - is Nelson going to continue to wax philosophical about it or actually do something about it? Instead of beginning a discussion about the merits and demerits of food reviews, how about contributing to what is apparently a very thin field of local reviewers by actually conducting some reviews himself? To me, this is just a long-winded attempt to explain to people the difficulty in “getting it right” before actually contributing a review because he is too self-conscious of being called out for getting it wrong; it’s like a huge disclaimer.

replied to mostroyal
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I had to look up the word "solipsism" ......anyone else???

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Buffalo Rising has never offered restaurant reviews. Reviews, in my opinion, require the awarding of stars, a list of "yays" and "nays", and a minimum of three incognito visits. Buffalo Rising has offered restaurant features and overviews. I'm inclined to offer less of those these days (unless a restaurant is new, or has undergone some change), and to instead encourage dialogue about restaurants and all things related to them because, quite frankly, you can find features and menu recitations in every media outlet in town, and online in a billion amateur forums.

The issue of reviews and how they are done and what their overall value may or may not be is a conversation being had not only by most of Buffalo's restaurant pros, but also, in the age of increasing amateur online review sites and declining print newspapers, it is a discussion that is happening all over the country.

We thought that conversation should happen here on BR, where the public could weigh-in, rather than just amongst our region's pros and writers.

Whether you care for Nelson or his writing style, the points he makes here aren't any less valid or well-thought.

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wow, what a semantical response. you've never offered reviews, rather "overviews." christa, sorry but that is laughable. chao li was, or seemed to be writing reviews no matter how you spin it.

this thing with Starr, if bro is trying to stir up readership by having a "controversial" writer you're misguided. the guy's videos might be great, never saw them, his writing however is idiotic & non-sensical. For example, I know who Hegel was, but throwing one of his phrases into a discussion of food is ultimately ridiculous & contrieved. I know Starr enjoys minor celeb statusin our small pond- god knows why- but you can't tell me that you can find someone more qualified (or not ashamedly vicariously trying to imitate bourdain) to write about food. anyone would have their critics, but man this guy is so polarizing.

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I meant "can't" find someone better. one more thing, the guy is who he is I guess, so maybe this is more of an editorial issue. this is getting boring, these are the same responses that came about with his first piece a while ago, obviously nothing was learned.

replied to 4matic
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Call it semantics, but I think I clearly stated the following: "Reviews, in my opinion, require the awarding of stars, a list of "yays" and "nays", and a minimum of three incognito visits. Buffalo Rising has offered restaurant features and overviews."

I dare say that most restaurant owners and chefs I know would prefer that any stars they are (or are not) awarded be based on multiple dining experiences. Stars sell dinners. You can argue that a lack of stars will not break a business (that the business probably broke itself, before the critic even got there) or that undeserved stars will not make customers return if they have a bad experience intitially, but more stars = more customers. Plain and simple.

Additionally, a critic should be able to tell the difference between B and C grade foie gras, or between a well-prepared ballotine and a poorly prepared ballotine--the technically correct execution of most any dish you can imagine. Also if ingredients were frozen or fresh before being prepared--something I find most people to be relatively unaware of if the dish is heavily seasoned or contains fish for some reason. That sort of knowledge requires said critic to have attended culinary school and/or worked in the restaurant industry, and, on their own, completed an intense amount of research and worked diligently to perfect their understanding of classic preparations. Additionally, in today's world, they are best served by also honing an appreciation for no-to-so classic items and cuisines. Anyone assigning stars (or kicking the stool out from under an already-doomed restaurant) who does not have the skills and knowledge to be a critic, should not be placed in the position to be one. Being recognized is also a huge hindrance.

So, no, here at BR it has never been our policy to offer reviews, we do not have a restaurant critic on the staff and never have. In the past we strictly followed the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all policy". We publish pieces by people who identify themselves as "foodies" and have very, very different levels of food knowledge and experience. Big difference.

replied to 4matic
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Food is not math. I don't care if Michael Ruhlman went (half assed) to the CIA. Millions of people have the same books, eat out regularly, and practice. They can tell a correctly made consume from an incorrectly made one just like he or Jeff Steingarten can. You give these "pros" more credit than they deserve. It's eating, it's food, and simple biochemistry. An eighth grader can read and understand McGee.

I reject this notion that food critics are "professional" anything. They just love food and take the time to understand it in the modern world. They keep up, they cook. This is not a profession. It's a hobby. It's a finite thing.

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You meant consommé right?

replied to bhorvath
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Food reviews in the San Francisco Gaurdian do not have stars or yays, nothing but an editorial piece on a restaurant. So it's possible.

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This post reads as if the author was out back snorting coke behind the BRO dumpster. You know, all self-righteous and world altering but largley incoherent?

Please refer: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/16/great-day-video-cocaine-a_n_577805.html

You're trying too hard (and failing) to articulate a concept that must have seemed clear in your head but comes out like projectile word-vomit. Just calm down and things will fall into place.

Regarding (what I think is the point of) the post...If anyone's interested, this New Yorker article lifts the table cloth on the folks who started it all -- Micheline -- and even they don't it "right" 100% of the time.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/11/23/091123fa_fact_colapinto

Best line from Part One: "Janice Okun at the Buffalo News is a bad role model of LEGENDARY PROPORTION..." [emphasis mine]

Priceless.

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Michelin*

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Remember that time Nelson Starr got Anthony Bourdain to come to town?

Nelson Starr does.

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Zing!

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And down goes Frazier (or in this case Anna Nicole Smith)...

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I disagree with the "I want a reviewer who like what I like" mentality. That's how we ended up with FOX News.

Journalism can NOT be totally free from the opinion and subjective experience of the journalist. That's what New Journalism proved (thank you Hunter S. Thompson for being the first real blogger). And, that subjective reality is okay.

What maters the most is that the reviewer CALLS OUT their subjective view and experience so that you, the reader, can filter it down and discover the real truth behind the meal.

Yes, it's nice to know that someone likes the same food you do - thus they will help point you in the right direction - but I feel that it is more important to have a reviewer who can instead use their education and subjective experiences to point you to NEW culinary experiences that are not in your home pallet. How else would you learn that Cilantro is excellent and NOT soapy.

Many people, those who never grew up eating cilantro, find the herb soapy and disgusting. Much like the teenager who has his first beer and has his face curl up in disgust. But, it is the repeated exposure to those flavors that can help your flavor palette reprogram your brain to learn that Cilantro tastes great. Or, that a cold beer is refreshing.

What you want in a reviewer is someone who is educated about food, in the classical sense, and also in the NON classical ways - street foods, traditional asian cooking, african cuisine, South American flavors, and the creative meals of the poor.

Then you want that reviewer to be able to balance that education against the flavors of the meal they are eating, figure out the cost/value ratio, and give you their honest recommendation.

I think a reviewer SHOULD recommend food that they know most people will not like if the reviewer's educational background (and life experience) tells them that the meal is a worthwhile experience.

Like the parent who encourages their child to try beets or brussel sprouts the food critic need to remember that they have a similar role.

Then they need to back up their argument for and against a meal by giving examples from their education and life experience. Then I will be able to filter out the truth.

The real problem in reviews are 5 star rating guides and other marketing gimmicks. The truth can not be summed up with cute graphical symbols lined up in a row.

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they can bicker about taste, its a g-damn TV show Nelson, but a reviewer just should describe how a dish tastes, not say they like it or not (explicitly), and critique whether a dish is prepared expertly or not. We all have different taste preferences. But as in art, there are qualities to food that can be judged, explicitly.

this argument is, as it was, socially constructed complexity when the world has had, and has enjoyed restaurant reviews for hundreds of years

imagine the art world without critics, this whole stream of thought on BRO is YAWN, YAWN, YAWN - it's like a child trying to cry to his parents about why he thinks he can't tie his g-damn shoe, only worse

readers want real reviews, always will, this type of philosophical garbage is much worse than a bad (ove)review by Ms. Li.

Help us Obi Wan, or just bail on dining and call it something else, like Food and Crafts

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Food and Crafts and WNY-Hipster Videos about Those 13 Cool Places You Should Be Seen Eating At (Because I Did) rather..

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"It's the same problem that has made me want to blowtorch Rolling Stone magazine every time their review staff trashes an album or artist I dig and then praises some talentless wanker."

Does anyone else not see a spade calling spade here? "I dig it so it is not a talentless wanker". You are what you loath Mr. Starr.

Do you read what you write? Does Bro not know that what it writes everyday, is a review?

Put a blowtorch to the holes in your head.

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As if a restaurant critic was some quantum mathematical, uber-trained, PhD-MD, PE, MBA from Oxford, Yale and Stanford all at once.

This whole BRO stance has been metaphor for the "Buffalo Mentality" - "we can't do that, it's too complicated"

Or some post-modern (?), hipster point of view - that there is no such thing as a real dining review, because of a, b, c...and if you don't understand you are an egotistical narcissist.....(pukes)

My god why did I have to read this...where is my free-will

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On a serious note, I think there is one premise lost on this issue - Readers have already made up their minds on many things. A review does not change a persons beliefs. Readers have experience and an article on BRO serves as a review in many ways - the authors sometimes forget that the reader is not without these existing conditions.

For example, when Newell writes about "Grillers" he does not think he is writing a review. But, when I see the basic sign and "turkey sandwich" line I have reviewed the deli (not restaurant) already because I have feelings for the way that sign looks (cheap, imperfect) and that I would not consider a turkey sandwich something that needs to be for sale outside of the home. I have reviewed the deli even though Newell is supposedely writing an inform-only piece. He may say "well he doesn't like delis to begin with". I would say, I have enjoyed experiences at delis in my lifetime. As well, when Ms. Li snaps and BRO posts overly shiny photos in a supposed inform-only piece she may not realize that I have reviewed the food as greasy because of the photo. I have judged the restaurant by the information that has been provided even though the author has not helped me along directly. I do not need the writer to form my opinions, I have lived and am alive with a working brain. When dishes are listed from a menu a reader may think that "gee, there is no real creativity to that food list" thus establishing opinion on the place as not modern. And, when a writer names a price for say, a chicken entree as ($18) they may not realize that a certain % of the readers will automatically review this dish as expensive and thus the restaurant as pricey.

So, BRO, my point is you neglect the fact that your readers are not infants, and you should consider that anything you write, no matter how unopinionated, will be emotionally connected by your readers to their own experiences and feelings. You, these articles, are not our source of life knowledge. So please understand why it is hard, in fact impossible, for some to understand your efforts to rationalize your stance (now also through guest writers) on not writing restaurant reviews. You write them every time you post a story on a restaurant.

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Surprisingly Brian, this post had nothing to do with why BR does or does not review restaurants, that only came up in the comments area.

Final time I will say this, but this is an attempt at a broader conversation about Buffalo and restaurant reviews and what Buffalo has for current reviewers and what it might like to have and, along the way, defining what all of that means. And it worked, because like it or not, in between hating on BR and Nelson, it looks like people are sort of talking about the issue. I would say that everyday people don't have firm opinions about the whole restaurant review process and its intricacies (they seem to only truly care about the stars) and that this is a niche debate often had by people with a real passion for food both in and out of the business. It's okay with me that some people don't care about this issue and don't think it's worth two long, wordy articles--that's why it's in the food section and not in a more general interest area.

If I thought the whole conversation would be about Nelson's love of vocabulary and the tired old BR review-or-not-review debate, maybe we would have just posted pictures of Nelson's face on a dart board with an old BR print mag hanging beside it.

The truth is, Nelson and I have each had the whole "dissection of the modern food review" conversation with WNY and outsider industry people so many bloody times, we thought it might be nice to bring it to the public, and to interview someone who has experience and strong opinions on the subject. Then we'd see what you all think. Period.

Peace out.

replied to bhorvath
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I think people want reviews and don't care if objectivity exists or not. The comments here were either to poke at Nelson's style or contradictions or to poke about why reviews will always be written. Either way reviews, Nelson = interest, even if half of it is to poke. Not the topic of reviews being real or objective or whatever philosophical jargon about logical empiricism (zing m-effer)...I guess it's how you interpret the commentary.

Nelson's articles will inspire commentary period. That we can all agree on.

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I'm done by the way. I ran out of ink.

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Here is my review, I personally think Trattoria Aroma is the best bang for your buck in this town.

12.68 stars...and 3 thumbs up.

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A. I am not sure why someone from Buffalo Rising feels the need to defend their own articles from the commenting. Why not just turn off the feature if you guys are going to have such a problem with negative comments. I have noticed over the course of the past couple months that this has escalated - almost to the point that any halfway negative comment gets an immediate retort by someone close to the BRO crowd. Lighten up and stop the defensiveness – it comes across as amateurish and unprofessional. (And that can probably go for the debate in semantics about reviews vs. overviews as well.)
B. Most of the comments here were not necessarily about the actual debate about food reviews or non-food reviews or the objective nature of food reviews - or whatever Mr. Starr is trying to communicate - but rather the comments mostly centered on his writing style.
Listen to your readers BRO, they just don't like the way this guy writes.

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A. I am not sure why someone from Buffalo Rising feels the need to defend their own articles from the commenting. Why not just turn off the feature if you guys are going to have such a problem with negative comments. I have noticed over the course of the past couple months that this has escalated - almost to the point that any halfway negative comment gets an immediate retort by someone close to the BRO crowd. Lighten up and stop the defensiveness – it comes across as amateurish and unprofessional. (And that can probably go for the debate in semantics about reviews vs. overviews as well.)
B. Most of the comments here were not necessarily about the actual debate about food reviews or non-food reviews or the objective nature of food reviews - or whatever Mr. Starr is trying to communicate - but rather the comments mostly centered on his writing style.
Listen to your readers BRO, they just don't like the way this guy writes.

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I forgot - for a final time - period - PEACE OUT!

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i rarely read restaurant reviews because they don't tell me what i want to know. is there preferably more than one vegetarian option on the menu? if there isn't, i have no reason to go there. is it genuinely wheelchair accessible? then some of my friends can't go there. are there tvs on every wall? ugh, perfect way to ruin an otherwise pleasant meal, especially if they're on different channels drowning each other out. what about the typical noise level? will i be able to have a normal conversation or not?

for lots of us, a restaurant experience doesn't succeed or fail solely on whether the sauce is spicy enough.

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You have multiple friends in wheelchairs? Are you an injury attorney? Or 90? Or both?

replied to grad94
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