Real Estate March 4, 2010 9:55 PM

Ramp Sought to Aid Statler Redevelopment

Ramp Sought to Aid Statler Redevelopment

Mayor Brown went to Washington seeking $7 million from the federal government to help construct a mixed-use commercial building on a vacant parcel behind the new Federal Courthouse, steps from the boarded-up Statler building.  The 15-story structure would contain 900 parking spaces on eleven floors topped by four floors of office space.  It is expected to support current and future nearby development, including a repurposed Statler building and the new Federal Courthouse.  Besides the absence of a capable developer, the lack of nearby parking has been called an impediment in redeveloping the Statler.

The $35 million "Statler Intermodal Transportation Facility" is designed to enhance the redevelopment of the Statler.  It would be built by businessman Mark Croce on a surface parking lot he owns at the corner of S. Elmwood Avenue and Mohawk Street.  The parcel is where Bashar Issa had proposed what would have been the city's tallest building, City Tower.

rampsite.pngThe ramp and office building leads the City of Buffalo's 2010-11 Federal Agenda.  The Mayor presented the city's funding wish list in a series of meetings with White House Deputy Director of Policy and Intergovernmental Affairs David Agnew in the West Wing of the White House and Senator Charles Schumer, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, Congresswoman Louise Slaughter, Congressman Brian Higgins and Congressman Chris Lee. 

The City's federal agenda includes funding requests for expansion of the Mayor's Youth Employment & Training program; improvements in the African American Cultural Corridor; installation of GPS tracking system in all city-owned vehicles (current pilot project has GPS tracking devices in the city's snow fleet vehicles); installation of eight more surveillance cameras (109 of planned 125 cameras are currently operational throughout the city); and the proposed Fillmore Avenue Streetscape Improvement Phase 2 project, which would complement the Mayor's Better Schools/Better Neighborhoods Collaborative.

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Mayor Byron W. Brown is greeted at the White House on Tuesday by David Agnew, White House Deputy Director of Policy and Intergovernmental Affairs.

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Businessman Mark Croce was intrigued when he was approached by City officials with a proposal to put a parking ramp on a lot owns at the corner of S. Elmwood Avenue and W. Huron Street.  Croce agreed to keep an open mind on the proposed public-pri... Read More

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what about bike racks?

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Good idea! Bike racks could make the parking ramp eligible for federal "green jobs" pork money. They could be put on the roof next to some sloar panels. Also the ramp should have murals to try for some NEA funding.

replied to KarlMalone
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Feelgood murals, too. We're talking about childrens' handprints, memorials to murder victims, portraits of those prominent in local history, downtown nostalgia, and piano keys. The more amateurish, the better.

replied to whatever
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The smug brigade right on cue.

replied to Dan
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Maybe kids could paints pics of all the buildings we think should be kept standing forever.

Justified smugness aside, this would be a very dumb use of federal money. Why should working families across all 50 states have to help fund corporate welfare for Mark Croce?

If Buffalo wants to give Croce money, it should come from our local $, or the state should pay for it like they're paying for the Bass Pro millionaire's corporate welfare for his store and parking garage. Even if funded that way, it would be bad prioritizing considering across the whole city there's so much needed public infrastucture work. If Croce thinks this parking ramp and office space is a good idea, he should take the risks of investing in building it and then charge rents and parking fees to fund it all.

replied to Dan
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Smugness is justified as long as your opinion makes u better than everybody else.

replied to whatever
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I wouldn't say smuggness affects the merit of anyone's opinion either way. It's like a bonus.

In this case, I think the prediction from Mr. Greenjeans in the other thread will be correct in a few years when this isn't built - or at least doesn't get $7M of federal funding. A parking ramp in Buffalo sounds like one of those things that would get a lot of ridicule if it shows up on the Obama administration's pork list in Stimulus-II or if Higgy tries to make it an earmark. We'll see.

replied to iluvpitbulls
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Poodle. I love your approach. You love to lecture about your fringe-based viewpoints, even though you are out of touch with the majority of Americans, although not NY, yet vehement that you are right and lash out at others who disagree with you and then disguise intent by mounting your high horse. Are you Michael Moore for real?

replied to iluvpitbulls
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We could connect it directly with the 190 to justify using gas tax funding. Gas tax money of course grows on trees.

replied to whatever
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POddle: We would also include a giant mural of your hero Michael Moore, now you are on-board.

replied to iluvpitbulls
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Yes as long as we use gas tax money. Gas taxes are free to the public! Lets use them! Gather round o freemarketologests we will save the city yet!

replied to KarlMalone
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11 floors of parking? Holy crap!9

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11 floors wouldn't seem that bad if spiral ramps were used. Most ramps in Buffalo use a 1950s-style center ramp arrangement; okay for a few floors, but not for more than five or six stories.

replied to markb
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and then there was that spiral ramp garage collapse in rochester a few years ago...

replied to Dan
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Put some commercial spaces in the ground floor and you have a deal...

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i second that motion!!!!
make the ground floor usable or you'll have another dead city block.this could be a very desireable location for offices/food retail etc. if the statler gets reused well all look back and say what a great idea it was to put retail on the ground floor.

replied to Sean Brodfuehrer
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Driving from the ramp's street entrance to the eleventh level could constitute as one of the longer commutes in Buffalo.

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What about first floor retail/restaurant space????? I'm so sick of first floor BLANK WALLS in this city. If you're going to build something, DO IT RIGHT!!!!

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I think Mark Croce gets it - he'll do the right thing. He knows there was high expectations with that space when Issa was involved. Folks, reach out and talk with him.


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I was about to have a critical comment until I continued reading. Plain, old parking ramp right off Niagara Square would be lame. Parking ramp with mixed-use is a good idea. I realize it's only Buffalo but many cities have such things, ex. Trump Tower Chicago. 11 floors is alot though. How about going below ground a few levels. Commercial on ground floors is a no brainer.

On a side note, have those surveillance cameras around the city served any good?

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Is proximity to the lake a reason for the lack of below ground parking in Buffalo? Could flooding/water control be an issue? I agree it would be nice to have a few levels below ground but I am not familiar with the engineering challenges. I know there are quite a few anti-parking folks out there that will be speaking up this morning however in this place, considering the size of the Statler, it is a good idea.

replied to LouisTully
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They can go down three levels for parking in this location. The City Tower was going to put three levels underground. They can only go three levels down due to the bedrock being about 30 feet below the surface. Building underground near the waterfront is really not an issue, just costs more money as you have to build what effectively equates to a "bathtub" to keep groundwater out. Think World Trade Center.

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Thanks. Good point, I hadn't considered Manhattan.

replied to thestip
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Can we still call it `City Tower`?

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Byron looks like Dicken's Oliver in that last photo.

"can I have some more parking, please?"

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Nice. I like it.

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you gotta admit the mayor is a snappy dresser!

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No podium? Does White House security screen them out? Did he have to pick it up at the checkpoint on his way out?

replied to anyoltime
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what the mayor is doing in that picture is giving a sales pitch as to why he needs federal funds to upgrade his podium.

replied to sonyactivision
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This is one of the better ideas I've heard for this site in a while and will certainly help the viability of the Statler. I hope the design for the ramp is kept in check. Just because it's a parking ramp does not mean it has to like like one. A glass curtain wall would help instead of the typical grey concrete with red brick infill. First floor retail/office/anything is critical too.

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Isn't that the site where Buffalo's new tallest building was supposed to be built? Man, talk about a come down.

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Plenty of other vacant lots for aspiring miscreants...

replied to NBuffguy
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Finally a good idea from City Hall! Parking is needed, just design the building correctly and actually do mixed-use, not just lip service. Parking ramps don't have to be a detriment or an aesthetic abortion, we just can't accept the least common denominator. Put in ground floor retail space (even if it's not leased yet) and go from there. I think this is a great plan if done properly.

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One of the arguments to building the new courthouse was that snipers had direct sight into the windows of the old courthouse from the Pearl/Franklin St. ramp. Wouldnt this have the same argument?

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How much parking does the Avant have? It also seems that it might help them as well.

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I think their underground parking is very limited. And I think it may only be for residents and perhaps some of the offices. My wife works in the building and parks at the ramp kitty-corner from the Hyatt at Pearl and WHuron.

replied to Chris
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They should put a heli-pad on the roof. I hear Mr. Croce has a helicopter. Buffalo needs more heli-pads!

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What would we all have said 4 yrs ago if a fortune teller said "That City Tower you all are getting excited about will actually end up being an 11 story parking ramp" How depressing is that...

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while it is depressing to think about city tower. what a great idea this project is! i would love to see some renderings. lets hope we are able to come up with the money. a 15 story building would really help modernize our skyline.

Now perhaps they can get 50 court street in on it and add those stories? i'd love to see what issa's tower would have looked at that site. this is great news.
I agree about the building needing street lvl appeal. howevever if this baby is really going to be intermodal then in some way or form it needs to suggest parking garage. i'd like to see something sleek colorful and inviting.

perhaps the most interesting aspect will be how they put 4 storys on top of 11 rows of cars. i have a feeling this will get cut down, but over all this is a great idea and hopefully they can build up.

i'd just love to see court street added to the project and that lot sit vacant for some kind of future project.

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Yeah, but a parking garage is hardly a glamorous addition to the skyline. Regardless of having a few commercial floors. How often are parking garages praised for their architectural contributions?

replied to impressingagent
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I agree it is still a good project. You say 15 stories...I think I misunderstood the article. Is it 11 stories of parking PLUS 4 stories of office space or does the 11 stories include the office space (+ 7 stories of parking)??

replied to impressingagent
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Does anyone else understand, that when this is built, Croce will be the winner? Why is the Mayor going to Washington demanding money for a Parking Ramp? Why not demand money for an extended Metro Rail System instead? If the money comes and this ramp is built, Mark Croce wins. Do you really think he cares about the Statler? And why is'nt the Mayor trying to expand our Metro Rail System while in Washington? He failed on that end.

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I really don't think an expanded rail will do much. Has there been any public opinion polls on whether people have an interest in that? I really don't think it will change the patronage that much. Buffalo isn't Chicago. WNYers LOVE having their cars and a million parking spaces.

replied to Lego1981
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no- that's cheating/gaming the system. if there were less parking spaces, there would be more interest in rail. all the more reason to wake people out of their "CARS, FIRST AND FOREMOST" mentality. its absolutely insane.
i often read people complaining about taxes on these comment threads, but no one ever mentions the hidden tax of being forced to own a car and drive it everyday. figure 17% of your income goes directly to a way of life that is making us poorer as a nation (3/4 of the stuff that makes our cars GO is imported, not to mention the constant need for road/highway repair).

http://www.bikesatwork.com/carfree/cost-of-car-ownership.html

replied to LouisTully
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Lack of parking will not lead to an increase in metro-rail use...It will lead to an increase in suburban office parks like Crosspoint in Amherst. Your position is just as unreasonable as those you lament, only yours is on the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't disagree that parking should not always come first/foremost, but it should definitely always be included/considered to some degree. It is possible for commuters and locals to coexist. You are entitled to disconnect yourself from the high cost of owning a vehicle but it is unlikely that everyone will follow suit. This project would be a healthy compromise IF it involved more than 4 floors of office space. Unfortunatley more floors of office = greater competition for the Statler. A compromise needs to be reached.

replied to sin|ill
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i could agree with the perils you mention in your comment, but you're leaving out a few things:

1. people tend to go where there are cultural and commercial opportunities (and people to 'get it on' with) within an attractive built environment. infill of the current giant lots downtown would, i argue, lead to more desirable places to live/shop/grow downtown. this would lead to more demand for better public transportation.

2. the price of oil is ticking up- http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/
why invest more space and money to a way of life that will be less affordable to more and more people?

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The economic realities of the city are that parking is a necessity and that improving the public transportation system is a long process and one that requires a great deal of money and support of politicians. That should be a long-term goal, but that doesn't help the rebirth of the Statler and downtown currently. This proposed building can do that, and you're removing a surface lot and adding to the density of the downtown core. As long as the ramp is built with ground floor commercial and has some sort of architectural treatment to hide the parking levels, this building is a win, and is necessary for the growth of the city. You can't just remove all cars.

replied to sin|ill
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1. I agree. The main goal should be to attract residents. Residents feed into the local(neighborhood)economy. Elmwood Villiage is a perfect example...business survives on patronage by locals. If DT could create attractie living spaces the same could hold true. I do agree that "commuters" can't support a neighborhood which is why I feel some middle ground must be found.

2. I do agee that oil prices will increase, driving up operating cost of motor vehicles in the short term however I feel within the nxt 20 yrs alternative fuels will be increasingly prevelent and cars will still be a staple of the American life.

replied to sin|ill
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on your #2=
there is not one 'alternative fuel' that currently excludes oil from its equation, nor is there one on the horizon. even an investment in nuclear requires hydrocarbons to both build the infrastructure and mine/transport the required ingredients. investing in dense, attractive, and walkable neighborhoods will be the best way to invest in the future.

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So go live in Iceland if you're such a purist. The US has enough filthy coal and enough gas for over 100 years of building nuclear plants, which is good because industry executives foresee another 100-120 reactor units by 2050. Plus, HFCVs are coming onto the market in 2015. That's four short years of whingeing about a lack of fuel alternatives. Savor every moment.

replied to sin|ill
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you're silly.
the time you give for coal is only at current levels of use- not if we become more dependent on it, and the most of the coal that remains in our ground has much less energy than it used to (bituminous and below). it would take around 700 additional nuclear plants to displace what we use in hydrocarbons (lets not forget so far nuclear plants have cost this country $492,000,000,000 for the first 104 alone- 4 of those are being decommissioned in the next 5 years). the best way forward is building at a scale where we need to use less.

replied to sonyactivision
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"$492,000,000,000" for 20% of the nation's energy? I'd call that a bargain. How much would an equivalent amount of reliable wind or solar generation cost? ( here's a hint: wind is 20% reliable, nuclear is 95% reliable generation ) As for coal, we will either burn it up ourselves or sell it to China. Your choice. :)

replied to sin|ill
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gas at $4 filled up metro rail quite nicely, remember? gas at $5 will change a lot of supposedly entrenched cultural biases (parking parking parking!) overnight. gas at $6 will double the number of bicycles on the street. gas at $7 will kill off a lot of long commutes to suburban office parks.

every day there is less oil in the ground and every day china and india want more and more of it. demand now outstrips supply. so, freemarketologists, remind us what happens when demand exceeds supply. and oil-producing nations like china and india better than they like us.

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Oh and while we're at it, let's close off Main St. and make it into a pedestrian mall. That will INCREASE traffic. Wait...

replied to sin|ill
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no one is saying 'eliminate cars'. just to discipline them so we aren't slaves to them.

replied to sonyactivision
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you get my vote for comment of the day. and week!

why didn't byron ask for federal money to expand metro rail when he had the chance? and reduce the constant demand for parking parking parking?

if parking is always free or underpriced, you will never have "enough" of it and all the federal dollars won't make a difference.

replied to Lego1981
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Simple answer: because the NFTA which has been asleep for 30 years, didn't have a shovel-ready plan.

replied to grad94
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A couple of questions/comments..

1 - How many of the spaces are going to the office on top of the parking and how many would be allocated to the Statler?

With Federal Funding in play, is it wise to give Croce, a private developer, that much power over a building he does not have a vested interest in?

2 - Depending on the use of the Statler, having parking mixed with office parking or general parking could be a determent. If the Statler is converted to a hotel, I do not see an issue. A valet service would work great. However, if the Statler goes residential, one would think the owners would want some type of separation and security for their cars.

3 - Which leads me to the question, why not go down 3-4 levels with a sectioned off parking for the Statler, retail on the first, and public and office parking going up? Is it a cost issue, soil conditions?


VERY VERY concerned with how this will play out. As they say...the Devil is in the details....

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No new parking ramp please!

1. Like LouisTully suggests, focus on NFTA and park and ride lots. Use money and to improve NFTA options from those lots. Taking the train from the Park and Ride may even be quicker than the home-ramp-work-and back commute! Use a fraction of this money to put a covered walkway between the Statler and the Metro stop, if we are so concerned about the Statler.

2. LouisTully and others are on the mark with mixed-use. I say, don't let the tail wag the dog. Start with the building not the ramp! If you feel you need more spaces, require new buildings to have parking in the building. In cities like Coral Gables Florida, they require a parking spot for every person in a new building. The ramps are built into the buildings so you cannot even tell they are parking.

3. Contemplate the decision carefully. A recent lecturer maintains that free parking encourages sprawl, which imposes hidden costs on us for everything from gasoline to air and water pollution to stretched-out infrastructure.

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Although an extention of the metorail would be good it would only impact people living within a certain walking distance from the rail. People will not park and ride because there is no reason to do so.

Park and Ride only works if traffic is too much to bare or it costs so much to park in a location that it doesn't make sense to drive down there. Buffalo's downtown has neither of these issues.

Parking ramps are good as long as they are (somewhat) visually pleasing and have some commercial space.

Anything to get rid of surface parking!

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>People will not park and ride because there is no reason to do so.

There were train-fulls of happy suburban Powder-Keggers last weekend, returning to the Park 'n Rides!

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I wasn't talking about an event that is a different story. People park and ride to sabres games, bills games, concerts, etc because they don't want to deal with the traffic.

Events are fine, but normal daily commuters, shoppers, and people that are going to resturants are not going to park and ride.

replied to KeepItSimple
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"There were train-fulls of happy suburban Powder-Keggers last weekend, returning to the Park 'n Rides!"

Yeah three times a year is enough to justify expanding the rail. Most probably only took the train because they don't know the city well enough to find the festival.

replied to KeepItSimple
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>Parking ramps are good as long as they are (somewhat) visually pleasing and have some commercial space.

We need residential space there.

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>Events are fine, but normal daily commuters, shoppers, and people that are going to resturants are not going to park and ride.

Thanks for the response. Now I'm curious. I will take a look at the UB and LaSalle Park and Rides on Monday.

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