lifestyle March 29, 2010 4:31 PM

Buffalo Rising: Comments, Anonymity and Civility

Buffalo Rising: Comments, Anonymity and Civility
Like any successful website or blog with comments, we generate a fair amount of comment controversy. We have valuable commenters who make the site better.  We have trolls who perpetually criticize everything and everyone without adding much value to the conversations. And we have some commenters who alternate between those two positions.  By and large, we think the commenter community we've cultivated here is the best in Western New York. It's certainly a lot better than what the Buffalo News has to deal with so we're grateful for that much. 

Today, we published a story about a building for sale.  A number of commenters - some long-time BR commenters and some newly created accounts - used the post as an opportunity to criticize the building's current owner.  That criticism created real world personal consequences - the cost of which exceeded the value of the post. So we took it down.  And we banned the trolls who created accounts solely to publish comments on that post.  While we'll no doubt be criticized for taking the post down (as we were for keeping the post up), we believe it was the right thing to do.  And to those who will comment here - anonymously of course - to criticize us for this decision, imagine if someone wrote an article about your house or company and anonymous commenters flocked to the story to call you names.  We understand the internet encourages snarkiness, but really, just take a minute to consider the other perspective before you type. 

Stepping back, this particular incident raises a frequently debated topic and one we think makes sense to address. 

Many of you are likely familiar with Buffalo's own Seth Godin. He's a well-regarded internet thought-leader and he's made the case that 'anonymity is the enemy of civility.' He's written extensively on why more sites should put an end to anonymous commenters and his blog is a must-read.  There is, undoubtedly, some merit to Seth's arguments.  At the same time, anonymity has some value.  Anonymity does, on occasion, allow people to speak the truth when they otherwise would be too afraid or compromised to do so.  Indeed, that's why we have whistleblower protection laws because sometimes the truth of a comment matters more than the attribution of the words. 

We think of each post as a mini cocktail party.  You want the guests to be thoughtful, funny, insightful.  You don't want someone who simply attacks everything and everyone.  Indeed, the commenters who are consistently negative would likely never act that way if they were at a real life cocktail party; instead, they'd act like civilized adults because they lose the cloak of anonymity.  In the past, we've built some features into the site designed to encourage commenters to add value - comment ratings, for instances.  That particular functionality added limited value so we moved on.  Now we're working on a new version of Buffalo Rising which would allow users to login with their Facebook accounts.  And if we wanted to end the anonymity, we could force people to log in via Facebook accounts.   

But we're not sure we want to do that. So tell us what you think about the role of anonymity in the BR comment streams and what you think we should do.  And please, be thoughtful and constructive as we attempt to navigate what is a truly difficult terrain for countless new media websites. 



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One week ago, Buffalo News Editor Margaret Sullivan announced that The News would be "seeking a return to civility in online comments" by forcing commenters to provide their real names. Anyone who has been paying a modicum of attention to The News... Read More

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As a long time reader of BRO, I don't buy this attempt at an explanation.

There have been plenty of articles left up over the years which "generate" comments that call people names, criticize a business/person, make outlandish claims such as the ones that were starting to appear in the 888 Main article... and they were left up.

With all due respect to the decision makers at BRO, this one reeks of favoritism given the well documented relationship this site has with the folks in question.

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Wait, there are trolls on the interweb now?

Good god, there've been dicks online since the early 90's, there will always be dicks. You can't "cure" anonymity online; the desire to do so is absurd. As for "well-regarded internet thought-leader".... nonsense.

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Anonymity? Doesn't matter if I'm anonymous or not. I never say anything I wouldn't say publicly.

"What you think we should do"? If you have the time to monitor, as you are doing, everything will be OK. It's the "automatic" systems that do not work well. Even the big boys like Yahoo are wrestling with this. I ran a very early high volume web newsgroup in the 1990s, and shut it down because I did not have the time to weed out the few horrible posts.

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PS: A propos to automatic systems, I love it when the Buffalo News' automatically deletes my posts, whenever I use the word "rack", as in "bicycle racks". [Try it some time!] I have to repost, saying "bicycle *holder*". I didn't even think people used that word for human anatomy any more.

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weak...edit out the inappropriate or obviously incorrect posts and let the others stand. This guy sounded like a real creep whose personal shortcomings ran the business into the ground. Are you gonna treat Carl Paladino's campaign with the same kid gloves? doubt it. You can't have it both ways and still consider yourself objective.

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The funny part is that not many of the claims may have been outlandish, but that does not make them false.

The truth is that negative controversy is something the site wouldnt put up with, even if it meant higher volume in visits.

In regards to anonymity, we can probably have a roundtable discussion about it, let's say at 888 Main? I hear they have good pizza.

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Not buying this whitewashing explanation. We all know your personal relationship with Dan Campieri, Newell. Do you think THIS MANY people came out just to bash a guy for no good reason? Those who've decided to share their stories have all been attacked, insulted or made to feel generally uncomfortable by a proprietor of a restaurant. A restaurant we were willing to put our hard earned money toward in support.
I more than anybody wanted that place to succeed, as I am a resident of Allentown. Actually I laughed off the first time he yelled at me about the red pepper flakes and Dan just being a bit quirky and eccentric. But the rude outbursts, uncomfortable comments and generally inhospitable behavior displayed by this owner was nothing short of reprehensible.

I might not comment on here often, so I'm not sure if I'm considered a "troll"--but when I do it's because I think it's something that needs to be said. Also, many of us have work to do for a living and don't have time to comment.

Now that I know there's a chance my postings will never see the light of day, I guess I'll go back to lurking and trying to find a real buffalo-based blog that's transparent and without some side-agenda.

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I think the greatest gift that BuffaloRising facilitates is passion, creativity, throught provoking insight, as well as, provoking independent thought from a city that to often remains detached aloof and isolated in their toxic pessemism.

There are many like Palladino who are angry with the Thruway and political incorrectness and in some cases anonymity gives people the security to stand up and say to leaders who face-off against the do-nothing power brokers in leadership positions that offer nothing to the region, the community or the institutions their employed except for furthering their own career.

The most frustrating thing in reading comments isnt political incorrectness, politics, ideology, etc. I may disagree and perhaps even passionately disagree but its not personal. There is substance and passion. There is always the hope that someone with passion will find a way to engage and contribute productively to the benefit of themselves and others. The most frustrating thing is those people who say absolutely nothing and Im not talking about the "Good work guys" generic comments and generic agendas.

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Blah. Click X in upper right of window. Open new browser. Type BuffaloNews.com

I didn't even finish reading. Garbage, BRO. Just straight up bologna. The guy cried. What problems did it create? Did his apparent many shortcomings cause trouble with a significant other? If John Edwards was outed on here, would you have banned the outters?

Total bush-league.

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Are you able to discern a difference between a presidential candidate (ie John Edwards) and a guy who owns a pizza joint?


replied to LouisTully
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politicians and pizza makers both have their fingers in the 'pie'...

replied to Cardiff Giant
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Sorry, that was anonymous. My name is Lou Bordonaro. I live on Delaware Ave. between Forest and Bird. Mr. Campieri sounds like a tool and a wanker and I'm glad I didn't go to his establishment. If you'd like to discuss further, I have a porch and I like beer. Let's have a summit.

replied to LouisTully
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If it's vulgar or unreasonably harsh / bigoted you should censor it. If it's not you really lose cred by taking down the posts. I bet alot more posts are censored than one might think.

But I have no idea about what post this was for, wish I had read it!!!!! Must have been juicy.

I hope they didn't take down my comment / the story on La Tee Da , on Genentech's Access to Care because they thought that was BS, that's real.

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I have no problem with removing some of the racist, sexist, or rude comments that sometimes appear here on BRO but this story should have been left up. If it smells like censorship it probably is.

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I agree!!!!

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Dan is a very close and personal friend, so admittedly this may be a slighted view, but I side with BR's decision for one reason: The article was about a building for sale, not a puff piece on Dan Campieri or his restaurant.

Regardless, BR should not stand for anyone to be personally attacked (politician's, Palladino, or restauranteurs) on their user forums regardless of personal affiliation with Newell or the BR staff. Especially when irrelevant to the article.


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There were the very negative and sensationalized articles published to increase traffic to Buffalo Rising, we were upset but we forgot about them.

There was the controversy with the signs on the ARTVOICE racks, we got over that.

There was the editing of comments by ECB, we were upset but we got over that too.

We have had all types of little controversies and squabbles, but we still trust the intentions and direction of Buffalo Rising.

What was done today was poor form, but forgivable. Some people feel that it was done out of favoritism, some don't care. We'll get over it.

Forcing people to log-on with real names will probably kill the site. There are some people here who are unable to post what they do in public due to their jobs or community positions. A person in City Government cannot post a negative comment about the government and government agencies under their real name. We would lose out by not having that insight.

Sure, there are some tired old debates and some people with the same axe to grind, or chip on their shoulder, post after post. They still have valid points and a right to post here. I would be afraid to let some of the more reactionary people know who I was, especially if I am challenging deep seated values.

My dissertation is on the fickleness of the American public. I focused almost 100 pages of research on blogs and message boards, and used BRO as a test to see how people reacted to certain comments and approaches. I could not do that under my real name.

For anyone who is interested, my name is Clark and I live just off the tracks near Shoshone and Hertel. I also like beer and spend most of the summer on my porch with my laptop, or with friends in Clarence and Amherst. Stop by, I'd love to chat about life, liberty, and the pursuit of a better Buffalo.

Peace! :-)

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BRO, is it so difficult to insert a thumbs-up / thumbs-down icon on each comment so the readers can vote on whether they agree with the comment? If I say something stupid or untrue in this forum, I would prefer that others vote me down accordingly until my comment is hidden from view.

If you implement this system, the readers would effectively monitor the site for BRO. You haven't done a great job thus far, so getting some free help wouldn't be such a bad idea, would it?

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Why Newell? One thing I was really hoping to read in your explanation for taking the story down, was that the guy was really nice and the commentors were deranged ex-employees. You didn't say that though, you said,"real world personal consequences" What is that? If what was said about this guy is true, that should generate some real world personal consequences.
I just spoke to my kids about Martin Luther King Jr and how he received death threats all the time and kept fighting for what was right. His personal consequences were being shot to death, but his sacrifice inspires millions. What is the truth about this story?

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Finally! I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for someone to compare this guy to Martin Luther King Jr. Their stories are nearly identical!

replied to ToTheTable
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A bit ironic, but the more negative news about the management of the business actually supported a higher selling price for the building (it's not the property's location that's an issue, but the management). Perhaps the posts turned nastier... but I didn't see anything that seemed out of bounds. We're grownups, we can figure out that a certain amount of criticsim is legit...some probably piling on.

I agree with Paul above...some kind of self policing seems to work best/be easiest to do, and not involve BR playing editor.

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Paul's idea has some merit, but doesn't sound relevant to the controversy in this case.

What it sounds like happened is quite a few people (some anonymous others maybe not, some long time commenters and others brand new) commented critically about someone who's apparently a friend of QE and/or BR. Then the whole post was quickly deleted.

If they were willing to delete it, I doubt they'd have held off doing that even if there were thumbs up/down ratings. It's very possible that the critical comments might have received mostly thumbs up.

Ironically, by deleting it they called more attention to the whole thing. Some people who wouldn't have clicked on a post about the pizza building for sale will now know about the criticisms after noticing so much discussion about article deletion.

Another level of irony is as ben says, the criticisms might result in the building attracting more interest from buyers.

replied to benfranklin
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So, can anyone explain what exactly the story was about? I didn't see it before it was removed.

I don't think it is ever a good idea to delete controversial content - it makes everyone suspicious and untrusting.

And if the comments are the issue, BRO, how about leaving the story but disabling commenting? Or just doing some basic comment moderation?

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jdc, it's kind of explained in the comments under the ketchup post.
http://www.buffalorising.com/2010/03/from-scratch-ketchup.html

replied to jdc760
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Thanks!

replied to whatever
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That is one hilariously censored article about homemade ketchup.

replied to whatever
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Making everyone's full identity mandatory to post just isn't a realistic option. And besides, I really doubt the administrators of BRO would want to deal with the extra red tape of making sure everyone is who they say they are.

So just heavily moderate, and deal with the criticism when people complain that their post was deleted. People that scream about "censorship" or "free speech" Blah blah blah... You are not the govt. You are a private individual with a business to run. You had a goal for BRO and that goal was not to turn it into a gossip column or a smear campaign (I'm assuming).

At the end of the day, it's your site Newell and if someone's post is going to make you lose sleep at night, then delete it.

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/not the Dan in question.

There's really no excuse for using socks. Sockpuppets are not only deceptive and dishonest, but they also give the person behind them a louder voice by using them to lend fictional support for an issue, and allow one to act without consequence to one's primary online persona. Many message boards, including mine, ban users that intentionally create more than one account.

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Dan- not to sound naive here but has there been evidence of sock puppets here on BRO?

replied to Dan
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it is not censorship to delete off-topic comments. it is not censorship when a football discussion board deletes theater reviews or when a mommy blog rejects military strategy analysis. it is not censorship to remove slander or libel.

but it sure smells of censorship when an entire article is yanked instead of the slanderous or libelous comments.

yes, it is well known that people behave more aggressively under the cloak of anonymity. but lots of readers have employers who disapprove of their employees having any sort of public profile. they consider it upstaging the company or brand-hijacking and they will punish it.

real name commenting would dry up the discussion to the occasional 'attaboy' and little more.

a 'report this' button would help commenters police the site.

instead of instituting a real name comment policy, i suggest developing an acceptable use policy and spell out what conduct is expected and what conduct will get you banned or your comment removed.

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So is Campieri's Pizza closing? Hopefully something will take its place soon if it is. I tried Campieri's based on reviews from BRO, the white pizza I had was very good. But I had a few complaints, such as them being out of some items. After leaving said establishment my wife and I both independantly came to the conclusion that their red sauce pizza (yes I know I was boring and had just acheese and pep) tasted remarkably similar to Pizza Hut. I wont miss this place, if I do Ill just patronize Pizza Hut. I unfortunatly never had the opportunity to meet the owner but judging by the many comments I think we may have had a much less than pleasant interaction.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who tasted a similarity to Pizza Hut. More accurately, Pizza Hut, circa-1990. Their pizza just isn't the same anymore.

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This entire fiasco has turned BRO into such a joke in my eyes. I understand their position in this whole thing. But their poor handling of it rivals other poorly handled situations, anything from a cheating politician to Tiger Woods.

You deleted the entire page.

You created some sort of self-justifying explanation; and it was lame.

You have a ketchup article with an entire comment section reading: "deleted-off topic". Just delete the posters.

This looks like amateur hour.

I think BRO's new direction should be a section for slumlords to advertise their vacancies. But don't allow comments, because then people might actually avoid a poor landlord.

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Finally! I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for someone to compare this situation to Tiger Woods or a cheating politician, the stories are nearly identical! There may never be another individual as insightful as LouisTully...

replied to LouisTully
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I think that the removal of the post and comments about 888 Main can only be explained as censorship due to favoritism. As others have mentioned, it is no secret that there is a "relationship" between BR and this particular business. Granted, I didn't see all of the comments, but I did see what was there earlier in the day. At that time, there were several negative comments about the way the pizza place was run, but nothing that I would consider slanderous. Based on my experiences as a patron of the business in question, most of the comments I saw seemed to be fairly credible. They were no worse than the speculations and criticisms that you routinely see in the comments of other stories on BR related to businesses that open or close. Nothing of the trash-barrel caliber that you routinely see on the Buffalo News website.

I don't know what comments may have been posted since I originally read the story, but the appropriate thing to do would have been to selectively edit those comments that were causing a problem, as has since been done with the ketchup story. To completely remove the story and all comments is quite frankly outrageous. It crosses a line that has not (to my knowledge) previously been crossed by the editors of BR, and puts the credibility of this website into serious question. I'm not concerned about whether I am banned or my comment is removed, but this is something I feel the need to point out. When the ridiculous comments on the Buffalo News website get out of hand, they don't remove the entire story. I actually take issue with their policy of removing all comments instead of just those that are offensive, but what BR has done here is even worse. I don't mean to make it sound as if the Buffalo News is the standard for journalistic integrity, but at one time, BR was considered to be a viable alternative news source in our community. If decisions such as this keep up, the remainder of this website's credibility will be lost.

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That criticism created real world personal consequences - the cost of which exceeded the value of the post....????

email me when the post is back up ... but for now I am gone.

something has gone wrong here.

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In other news... Buffalo's population keeps dwindling.

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I cannot comment on this particular incident as I didn't read the story originally. On the other had if the larger question is the quality of the comments in general; I am usually very disappointed that a few people control the conversations which degenerate to their personal agendas more often than not. I wonder how many hours the critics spend on this site, and how much better off we would be if they would actually get their own lives instead of tearing down the work of active Buffalonians who are working to improve our community. I believe lifting the veil of anonymity would help. I also believe that the site ought to be monitored as on the Buffalo News site. There is no room for personal attacks. I'm sure BRO will make the proper decision after more review. Good luck!

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First of all: I am a long-time reader/first or second time commenter. My name is Christopher S Connolly, I live on Allen Street, and I tend bar at K. Gallagher's on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday; I am not anonymous.

The story in question was deleted before I got a chance to read it, but if the negative comments were truly bad enough to have the article pulled, then perhaps they were deserved.

If BR wants only a gentrified portrayal of Buffalo(eg a story every time a half-assed business opens on Elmwood, with no mention of the place that went out of business...like Thunder Bay...to allow for the opening, then fine. BR is a private, for profit entity. This is their right. Just don't pull the moral high ground crap.

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Thank you BRO. Many good points. The internet, specifically the blogosphere, is a revolutionary medium for the dissemination and critique of information because it allows the average person to contribute in way they had little opportunity to do so previously.

However, as observed on BRO and The News (to name just two), many commentators take this too far by taking personal insults, disgressing the conversation toward the irrelevant and simply being so negative that anything else constructive is diluted. The value of the medium is then brought into question.

Most professional media outlets, especially those on a large-scale (i.e. NYT, The Economist, etc.), censure those comments that are inappropriate. BRO and The News must adopt similiar policies - and enforce them - in order to maintain their credibility and efficacy in the long-run.

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so, after reading all the comments, i give bro a 'fail' in journalism ethics. the first ethical lapse was for newell to cover a good buddy in the first place. in print & broadcast journalism, you are supposed to recuse yourself and hand the story to someone else if you are personally connected to the subject.

the reason for this is obvious. if it is a positive story, you will be seen as promoting your buddy. if it is a negative story, you have every incentive to conceal inconvenient truths about your friend. the other option is to fully disclose when you are covering a buddy's business.

the second lapse was to pull the entire story because a few people said either unflattering or slanderous things (i don't know which) about the subject, i.e. concealing inconvenient truths.

my prescription for the problem is right in the neighborhood: journalism classes at buff state. if you want the thrills of journalism --breaking a story, following a scandal, developing inside sources-- you have to accept the responsibilities of journalism, and that includes not compromising the story to spare the feelings of a buddy.

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Thanks BRO for making the decision on what's right and wrong for me, it's very high and mighty of you. I mean, are we in kindergarten here? I'm fairly certain that I can make the decision on whether or not I want to be civil, and that decision will have nothing to do with what kind of relationship BRO has with the person or entity that an article is about.

Do I post anonymously? Absolutely. That doesn't make me a bad person for saying what's on my mind....

Man, every day I find a new reason not to check this site.

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These are the comments that should be yanked. Nothing better than the commenter who comes on just to tell us that he/she won't be commenting anymore. Reminds me of my 5th grade girlfriend who kept calling me to tell me we were over and she wouldn't be calling me anymore.

As for the post, I happen to think it should have stayed up considering the story was about the sale of a building/business and the resulting comments were obviously driven by real life experiences that patrons had at the establishment. If this Dan guy treated people that way, than it seems only fair that he be criticized. I don't think Buffalo Rising does much if any censorship so I'm not really that bothered, but I just love a really controversial post on here and this one was sure to bring me lots of laughs and entertainment. But thanks BRO for putting up this explanation which at least partially takes the place of the other story.

For the record, I am really Scott Norwood and live on a deserted island in the South Pacific....and I like beer also so feel free to stop by and have one this summer and we can talk about Dan and old Super Bowls and anything else on your mind.

replied to MFM
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Hey at least it's deleting posts and not making secret ones about kids, drugs and daycare.

But honestly, sometimes the advertisement of BRO's friends' commercial ventures are a little too much.

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This whole situation reminds me of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge

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Why not just run an article about teachers' salaries then everyone in WNY can get their cathartical negativity out in one fell swoop?

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Hello everyone,
I would like to apologize to BR for this whole situation. Also it wasn't the comments that bothered me it was the fact that I didn't want this listing so public. I don't want to sell but I have been overworked for 5 years and I'm exhausted. Chris from Hunt Commercial told me some of the deals he has done recently and the price he could get. I wish that I just closed for 2 weeks and went on vacation. Have a good day everyone,
Dan

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Anonymity is no good. If you click on my name, you will see my email address, which includes my full name, and my picture.

An idea that you can't put your name behind carries little weight for me, except in "whistle-blower" situations, but even then, a person needs to state who they are to an official who will keep confidentiality.

Regardless of the BRO policy, I think we as readers/commenters should create the expectation of transparency and collegiality.

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I feel that BRO is biased in most of its stories. BRO is no more "fair and balanced" than Fox News. With that in mind, I find it to be more of a blog than a news site. Newell, it's your blog, treat it as you like.

I work in the public sector in a field where everybody seems to know each other and where there is rather limited career mobility. I post anonymously so that I don't burn any bridges with my current or any potential future employer.

I don't post often, but when I do, I try to avoid being negative. I try to offer questions, comments, and constructive criticism, but constructive criticism can be a double-edged sword. Admittedly, though, sometimes I make snarky remarks, but I think that's natural when you believe strongly in something.

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I feel that BRO is biased in most of its stories. BRO is no more "fair and balanced" than Fox News. With that in mind, I find it to be more of a blog than a news site. Newell, it's your blog, treat it as you like.

I work in the public sector in a field where everybody seems to know each other and where there is rather limited career mobility. I post anonymously so that I don't burn any bridges with my current or any potential future employer.

I don't post often, but when I do, I try to avoid being negative. I try to offer questions, comments, and constructive criticism, but constructive criticism can be a double-edged sword. Admittedly, though, sometimes I make snarky remarks, but I think that's natural when you believe strongly in something.

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As expressed in other comments, unintended backlash to a posting on BRO is nothing new. However, in all fairness to the readers and to ultimately uphold credibility for the publication itself, suppression or removal of reader comments should be done with the same uniform conviction regardless of subject matter or not done at all. Removing an entire post due to some mild criticism ? That's unacceptable.

On another note, I hope that Dan is successful and happy in all his endeavors, sale or not.

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this will probably be deleted for being off topic...

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That is the funniest post I've read in ages! Put buffloonitick to work on a humor column! Look forward to reading more of your work, buffloonitick.

replied to buffloonitick
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I've reported this reply as being off topic to an off topic post... just kidding.
thanks for the compliment Keeps. a little humor and absurdity now and then helps round out these discussions.
and if some of the comments gets some coffee or preferably beer to exit ones nose or brighten someones day it's worth it.

replied to KeepItSimple
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You guys should go check out Skunkpost! That "Kristen the Critic" always says something hilarious!

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You guys (meaning the people complaining on this post) are crazy.

Newell and Buffalorising have been a key player in keeping the hope alive in this town. I check this everyday and everyday there is more positive light on the city that we all love.

If you want to complain, go to the Buffalo News. You all sound like you belong there. Im not here to start a fight but seriously, there is something that needs to be said.
Dan has a great hummus plate and good crust. His place is nicely decorated and yes, it could be better. But really, this is just nonsense...
Not wanting to check BRO for one post? If you dont want to see the positive in Buffalo than you dont deserve to have BRO in your life.

If we all spent this much energy into cleaning the sidewalks, removing grafitti and painting our houses, Buffalo would be a much better place to live. Just a thought!

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I'm with you Bernice.

replied to bernicebuffalove
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Sorry, but that is a ridiculous set of comments. The power of positive thought is not keeping WNY from falling into some vast sinkhole.

I don't have the research in front of me but the energy levels of posting a comment vs cleaning sidewalks or other forms of physical labor is probably something like 2:65,000.

replied to bernicebuffalove
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I think her point was that instead of wasting time complaining on a website (basically, producing no positive results), maybe people should be doing something to bring positivity in their lives and in Buffalo. People were creating accounts to bash on the owner of 888, that time could be spent doing something very wonderful.

replied to 4matic
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The power of positive thoughts helped save NYC in Ghostbusters 2

replied to 4matic
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THAT'S that I'm talking about. All we need is a little Jackie Wilson!

replied to DMZ
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I agree with Bernice. (Full disclosure: She is my sister). I enjoy coming to this website because I enjoy a positive discourse. That is not saying that criticism isn't welcome here, because criticisms can be great and can further an overall positive discourse. The comments added no value to the post (the original article was about a beautiful building being for sale), and seemed negative for the sake of being negative. If I wanted that, I'd read the Buffalo News.

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Disclosure: I like the owner of the building in question. I have gone there often and always had a great time. I first wrote about the business well over a year ago.

http://www.hotbuffalo.com/index.php/2008/12/07/lesbian-pizza/

However, does the fact that the building's owner is a personal friend of Buffalo Rising's owner have anything to do with the fact the post was removed?

There are many nasty comments out there that have been left for other people.

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Maybe BRO should look at itself. I know "queenseyes" is Newell but I'm sure many people do not. I don't know who "WCPerspective" is - does she or he have something to hide? Perhaps I could go to a section of this site to find out or ask Carol, but why not simply use your real name?

It would be interesting to know the reasons that "anonymous" is anonymous. Perhaps people should explain. Ie: "I work as an architect in Buffalo and would be fired if my boss knew what I really think", "I work in City Hall...", "I'm a South Mullucan terrorist..."

There sure would be an amusing array of responses!

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I believe there is a section for contributors.

replied to Daniel Sack
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I've had a real problem with comment culture on supposedly "professional" news websites for a while now. It seems like all it ever does is provide a place for a-holes to troll, spew hate, and attack others without fear of consequences.

I wouldn't mind one bit if BRO required that all commenters be required to somehow prove their identity and post under their real names.

Some might say that will reduce the number of comments. Yes, but it will probably just weed out the comments that don't really contribute anything anyway, so quality will improve. Possibly the quality comments will even improve, since people who are currently put off by the "trolls" will feel more inclined to contribute.

Some might say that requiring a real name violates their free speech. Not at all. First of all it's a private website, so they can make their own rules. Don't like it? Make your own website... or blog. Even if it that wasn't the case, you have a constitutional right to free speech, not anonymous speech.

However, I don't think that requiring people to post via their Facebook accounts is the way to go either. Believe it or not, everybody on earth does not have a Facebook account. And not everybody wants to acquire the baggage associated with Facebook, just so they can post on BRO.

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So you're the arbiter of what comments contribute something? Perhaps you could specifically clarify what constitutes a worthy comment.

replied to n.dru
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I’m with you Dr. Dru. In today’s web culture many of its participants blindly react in a variety of internet ways greatly dislodging settlements is Jerusalem and other parts of the East and West. For Buffalo to be truly great we must reflect upon ourselves and what we collectively bring to the table, break bread, and puff puff; pass pass. Other avenues will simply impede the road to salvation and hurt the Fruitbelt and possible butter lambs at the Broadway Market.

replied to n.dru
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Civility as a guest at a party should be the rule. Anonymity is one of the advantages of Buffalo Rising currently. There are cases in which speaking one's mind freely can result in retaliation. So without the ability to post anonymously some would not post at all. Or they may be too shy to see their name posted. Unfortunately, some people who post anonymously have taken advantage of it, and posted comments that could be regarded as offensive. But BR has the ability to delete them. This may be censorship, but comments that are not constructive really lack merit. We have to submit our emails currently, facebook could be an option, but there are times we really desire to post our thoughts without sharing our identity. And, some of us are very grateful to BR for this opportunity.

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I can care less what you guys do. I have no problem posting with my FB account. In general I only offer my opinion about eating or drinking anyways.

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Perhaps there is a way to have three methods to view BRO.

Comments from "anonymous" only.
Comments from non-anonymous people, confirmed by BRO.
Both.

I would only read the comments from the non-anonymous. Others may prefer all comments.

But this may effect hits and ad revenues.

Could be an interesting experiment.

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Well, after that riviting post on Ketchup, I suppose we will get a fasinating history on the Buffalo Butter Lamb and the Broadway Market [wretch]...Need to take the good with the bad Newell. Over the years so many attacks on public figures in the City. Politicians, Developers, even regular day to day people [even me]on BRO. Most of the posts on Dan really were next to nothing, most comments were on how the business was run which is probably why the building is for sale, if it was run well and busy he would be keeping it. I suppose you think most of us are stupid as well as Trolls. Best, Martin Kemp - Atlanta

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Full disclosure:

Reginald Quincy Merriweather IV is actually my Grandfather's name.

I am Reginald Quincy Merriweather VI.

And for those of who whom who doubt the contributions of the pseudonymous to constructive and thoughtful debate, please check your history books. This country was formed, quite literally, by the work of anonymous public commentators.

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You couldn't mean something like a piece of work called the Federalist Papers written by the author Publius could you?

Reginald Quincy Merriweather VI. I feel so deceived.

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Someone was paying attention in AP American.

Not only were the Federalist Papers pseudonymous, the anti-federalist papers were as well. Both works continue to provide primary source material for interpretation of the Constitution.

Publius was Hamilton, Madison and John Jay.

Cato was George Clinton (the Governor not the Atomic Dog)

Brutus was Robert Yates.

Centinel was Samuel Bryan

and the Federal Farmer has a few possible candidates.

These public, pseudonymous works were instrumental in both the ratification of the Constitution as well as the creation of the Bill of Rights.

But enough with historical evidence, I'm sure Geo. Washington and Thomas Jefferson were more concerned with the lack of positivity across the states, and wondered if that is why IKEA refused to locate in the USA for almost 200 years.

replied to LouisTully
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I know I was one of the commentors who spoke of Dan in the article. I don't think talking about his mismanagement was completely irrelevant to the sale of his business/building. I also meant no disrespect to him either for what it's worth, I think Dan is a good guy and good for the city of Buffalo. But in all fairness (and I'm sure this has been said here already), what did you think was going to happen when you posted the story?

Dan is a popular guy in Buffalo and the sale of his building was most inevitabley going to spark this type of commentary. If you want to protect certain people from potential negative light, then I suggest you don't write a story on them which perpetuates that.

Bottom line is you shouldn't start a web site that allows commentary and blogging and expect everyone to side with the writer and not bash certain people from time to time. I'm sure the article was taken down on Dan's request and I don't blame him, but that's the nature of the beast.

As I said in that post, I still wish Dan the best of luck and I hope he finds his niche.

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Seems like the Iron Curtain is already dropped, this post is for show-

The ketchup story was worth a read until they censored half the comments as off topic,

Well, who picks the commentary topics? It's a blog.

Sucks, that was what made the clicks worth the time,

See ya all later, site is still afraid of not being boring and happy happy,

B

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I'm not sure why some people expect BRO to live up to journalist standards. it's not the Buffalo News, thank god. nor has it ever claimed to be. opinions and viewpoints people.

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BRO = Amatures.

Little piece of advice, devest yourselves of personal relationships if you want to play "journalists"

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Arch - epic misspelling of amateur. Really solidifies your point you clown.

replied to Arch
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I know Dan a little. Friends of mine know him well. I've eaten at his place many times. I like the food. And I like Dan.

But the comments were far from anything that should have been removed. They were opinions. Well written, clean opinions.

I also run a website where we have to maintain "clean" comments and it would never, ever have crossed my mind to remove those comments... or even the whole story!

If Dan can't take the heat then we should get out of the kitchen. Is that why he's selling?

Get a grip, Newell!

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