Regional February 11, 2010 10:46 AM

Google: Think Big with a Gig

Google: Think Big with a Gig
Buffalo would be perfect for this!  While we wait on word from County Executive Chris Collins and Mayor Byron Brown's offices, we pose this to you our readers - because you can vote us in too.

Google is looking for a trial locations across the country to test their ultra-high speed broadband networks.  At over 1 gigabit per second, Google networks would be over 100 times faster than what is available to consumers today.

Google is inviting municipalities to submit information that would help them to decide where to set up the test markets.  We think a mid-sized city like Buffalo would be perfect.  Not only do we love the idea of having high speed options on a personal level, but imagine the selling point this would be for businesses looking to relocate here.

Let's hope the city and/pr county is willing to submit a government response to Google.





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yes yes yes and yes

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Giggity!

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Hmmm, who can we trust to market this to google?

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NO! Life here moves a little slower and we like it that way.

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Would be nice, but really, how impossible would it be to run new lines to individual houses? There's a reason FiOS only goes to a few places around here...

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Not impossible. Just really really expensive. Which is why it would be so cool to have Google pay for it instead!

;)

replied to Jesse
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Why would it be harder to wire Buffalo than any other city? It should actually be easier because of the density and flatness of the geography

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Residential areas in Buffalo don't have alleys, and utility easements are rare. New fiber is usually underground.

replied to Sally
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Why would Buffalo be perfect for Google? Who the hell writes behind Buffalo Rising?


Any city would love to have this but if Google is going to invest, they are going to do it somewhere else.


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"but imagine the selling point this would be for businesses looking to relocate here."

Most larger business around here already have T1 or higher now, however another option will not hurt.

replied to Really?
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Was not meant to be a reply to "Really?'s" post. Although I totally disagree with him/her.

replied to DMZ
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You disagree that Google would pick multiple cities over Buffalo for a pilot program?

replied to DMZ
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Yes I do.

replied to Really?
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Facepalm

replied to DMZ
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Ideal testing candidates should be large enough to give the target product a thorough workout, but small enough to be manageable. You don't test in Laramie, WY or NYC, for example, but somewhere in between.

replied to Really?
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Are you even aware of criteria from Google? How long have you been following this story?

From Google:

"Above all, we’re interested in deploying our network efficiently and quickly, and are hoping to identify interested community partners that will work with us to achieve this goal. To that end, we’ll use our RFI to identify interested communities and to assess local factors that will impact the efficiency and speed of our deployment, such as the level of community support, local resources, weather conditions, approved construction methods and local regulatory issues. We will also take into account broadband availability and speeds that are already offered to users within a community."

Going down the list...

Just what in Buffalo has ever been done efficiently and quickly?

By local support, they mean Government support. Just when in Buffalo has there been Government support for anything AND done efficiently and quickly?

As for weather, while Buffalo is not as bad as people make it out to be...you do not have the same construction schedule as other parts of the US.

These are just the items they are discussing. Google is doing this to push the envelope. They are throwing money in some markets to force other providers to step up their game...which in the end will help them make more money.

Because of this...they are going to need evangelists. Evangelists who also happen to be technologists. People that WNY does not have. A post on BRO from Elana or Newell or on WNYmedia from Pundit is not going to cut it. They have no reach..or at the very least they do not have the reach that Google needs. The only notable technologist to come from the region, with the reach, is Seth Godin and he now lives outside of NYC.

The reason why Google will not come to Buffalo has nothing to do with the size but rather the 'personality' if you will.

replied to Dagner
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"weather conditions, approved construction methods and local regulatory issues"

That would make me surprised if any communities in NY state are chosen.

Still, it can't hurt to apply.

People can't do anything to make the weather noticeably warmer, but maybe the NY state economic dev agency could put try putting together a package of streamlined construction rules and regulations to offer Google. I doubt the issues here would be only at the city level.


replied to Really?
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Of course it does not hurt and I hope that Buffalo were to get it.

I was simply commenting on the ignorance of the OP.

People in Buffalo/WNY have a hard time grasping the two way street with business. It has to be about what is good for them just as much as good for you. People in Buffalo do not understand this.

replied to whatever
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"It has to be about what is good for them just as much as good for you."

But downtown Buffalo would be the BEST POSSIBLE place for Ikea, Barnes & Noble, H&M, Wegmans, Pizza Plant, some NYC-style nightclubs, Cornell's hospitality management school, an Apple store, ...everyone's data center, green jobs, high speed rail, ...

replied to Really?
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He is a bit more obscure, but:

http://thepurdman.com/about/

If you look at Google's page (http://www.google.com/appserve/fiberrfi/public/overview), they might prefer areas where they see more businesses starting to utilize the city's new network (San Francisco - Twitter and Craigslist, NYC - a ton of small tech startups). Although, it still can be argued that the presence of the network itself, possibly combined with other factors, will bring those startups.

replied to Really?
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If you hear back from Erkel, be sure to mention the opportunity he would have for a nice photo op of him mailing the application to google.

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thumbs up

replied to NorPark
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I would love to see it here but believe it or not our proximity to Canada hurts us sometimes in the rollout of newer wireless technologies. Some frequencies that are used for different technologies have to be approved by Canada and the US or sometimes shared; delaying the rollout here until both sides of the border have approved it.

It's still something that should be pursued.

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There shouldn't however be any issues with the fiber to the home solution they want to do.

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i submitted my nomination. hope everyone who likes the idea ignores the trolls for once and submits theirs.

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Grad: Just in case you didn't know, you are the troll's troll. Let me guess UB school of planning. get a real job

replied to grad94
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just so i know where you're coming from, what is your definition of a "real job'?

replied to KarlMalone
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Doodlers, otherwise known as the creative class. The subprime mortgage group of america.

replied to sin|ill
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doodlers/creatives are known to be renters (hence, easily mobility). that's part of the definition of the 'Creative Class'.

replied to KarlMalone
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I think you may have missed the metaphor.

Anyway moving on..., I wonder how you draw that conclusion. Does florida or other reference it somewhere, was it primary research, secondary e.g Census data. I wonder what SIC code doodlers/artists fall under compare aginst homeownership rates?

replied to sin|ill
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some name changes should be made then.
Albright Knox = The Doodlers Museum
Sheas = The Doodlers Theater

Mozart could be considered a genius doodler, as could John Coltrane and John Cage. various doodlers have been invited to the White House to doodle in front of distinguished international guests.
humans have been doodle-ing from day one, be it doodle-ing on cave walls or Pablo Piccaso doodles that fetch millions of dollars, ancient statue doodles devoted to fertility or Michaelangelo sculptures doodles.
doodle-ing adds to the quality of life, to exist in a doodle-less world would be to exist in a sterile environment.

replied to KarlMalone
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Everyone in the arts should be rounded up and sent to Texas for a few weeks. Talkin hard time...

replied to buffloonitick
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The Doodlers Pogrom
i was thinking of having the doodlers rounded up and put in a big cage and dropped in the lake. well, at least the ones that didn't own any homes. the ones w/ subprimes would meet an easier fate. they would subjected to non doodler events like watching big truck competitions followed by hours of pro wrestling. that will teach them to get out of a lousy credit rating. slackers...

replied to KarlMalone
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I would think the church of freemarketology would frown upon urban planning the same way a creationist would frown upon evolution.

replied to KarlMalone
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No, but sometimes it's like the way doctors frown upon faith healers.
(no sectarian offense intended to fanatics in The Church of Parking Is Satan)

replied to Armchair MBA
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You made up a church too? That is clever and original.

replied to whatever
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You guys made up its theology. I just named it for you!

replied to Armchair MBA
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flattered but no. midlevel job in a private agency. don't know where that falls on your reality scale, but it pays the mortgage.

if you knew anything about planning, you'd know that you can count the full-time planning jobs in buffalo on one hand. maybe two. they're all in city hall, smart capable people whose hands are usually tied. sometimes i think the strategic planning office should be renamed the planning circumvention office.

replied to KarlMalone
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mortgages are for Joe Sixpacks and Johnny Lunchpails.

replied to grad94
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Did everyone miss the point of my statement? What I am stating: the creative class IS the subprime mortgage group in the U.S. population. The statement has nothing to do with who does or doesn’t hold a mortgage. A=B.

replied to sin|ill
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Actually Buffalo makes some sense. We are a large but not "mega" metro area, making the roll out smaller. Also as a lesser profile, just "happy to be on board" we may not be as harsh as trying to roll out immediately in NYC, LA, or DC. Basically we will be BETA testers, for that you want a loyal base of consumers not an acutely critical clientel with high expectations.

Many also do not know that Buffalo is a very "wired" city. Maybe not in the sense of individual homes, but we sit at a crossroads of many of the major pipes of the internet. Between NYC, Boston, Toronto, and Chicago, there are physical fiber optics, many running along I-90, if you know what to look for you can see the repeater sites. There is another reason Yahoo is here besides weather and tax breaks and that is access to the worlds electronic infrastructure.

So again we have people saying we can never, they don't want us. Instead of looking at why we can. The biggest reason Buffalo continues to fail, cause there are to many people looking for reasons not to succeed. I hope Google does this here, more so I hope Google follows suit with Yahoo and builds a data center with low cost power, and hopefully Microsoft next.

Green technology, and internet based products are the next wave. The internet bubble from the 90's weeded out all the non-sense, your dog having a web page is not progressive and adds no value to anything but you and your immediate group of friend to laugh at. The tech that is being developed now is the next 100 years, and we are still not to late.

This goes for high speed rail too! Tell me what Buffalo would be if the I-90 didn't run through it? Nay sayers are NOT realist they are people who want to grip and be past buy. I for one want to move forward in BUFFALO NY.

So as you sit in you circa 1960's single story brown brick ranch (I had to type that so people know what side of the city vs. suburb argument I'm on :) ), cracking your knuckles getting ready to type about why Google doesn't want a part of Buffalo and why Buffalo can't accomplish this. Why don't you instead go to the website and type something worth while telling Google you want them here, and why they can succeed.

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Great post!

replied to sobuffbillsfan
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have you ever seen 'Patton'?

replied to sobuffbillsfan
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Imbecilic post.

We have absolutely no secrets from Google.

Imagine a totalitarian government (soon to be seen on these shores) pairing up with Google as "thought police." Just around the corner.

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Buffalo is too poor to need this. Most of our people can't afford cars much less a new laptop. The best most have is a cell phone. It is going to be that way until we start sharing the wealth from the suburbs with the city. This might make sense in Clarence or Elma but not in the city.

Sorry folks, the rich just keep taking too much from the city to pull this off.

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That's a very odd perspective, Stancsea. The rich 'keep taking' too much from the city? Seriously? Just because a majority of bigger earners choose to live outside the city line does not imply that they are 'taking' anything from here. Nor do they have some obligation to share their suburban wealth with Buffalo. Oh wait: they do already. It's called NYS education dollars and welfare. Beyond those programs, what are you suggesting? Some suburban tax to be donated to the City of Buffalo? Good luck with that! Upon what justification?

replied to STANCSEA
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"NYS education dollars and welfare" has nothing to do with sharing with the city. These dollars are paid by all citizens, suburb or city dweller. It is not reasonable to claim this is sharing, the city just happens to host the regions poor. The majority of working people in Buffalo do not benefit at all from suburban taxpayers.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Perhaps the majority don't benefit from suburban tax dollars, but why should anyone else (other than the poor) be entitled?

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Not saying they should, just pointing out that the majority of the people in Buffalo work and pay taxes. We would be happy to share our poor with our suburban neighbors, then we could ***** about our tax dollars going to the suburbs. Our city is undermined by decades of suburban planning in a large part driven by racism and classism. Regional government and the real sharing of resources and burdens is the only way to move forward.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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The rich control the purse strings for all of Buffalo. They decide to build up Transit Road while not investing money in Buffalo schools where it is needed most. They decide to build new suburbs instead of rebuilding existing neighborhoods. They decide to build group homes to house 20 sex offenders in a city neighborhood while building a single family house twice that size for a family of four in Clarence. The rich don't care about the poor in the city. Giving once a year to the city mission or donating a few cans of creamed corn to the food pantry is considered sufficient for a family earning twenty or more times what the poor scrape by on in the city.

The rich are getting richer off the sweat of the poor who work for them. I don't know how someone can go home to a mansion in Elma knowing that their employees are struggling to even get by in a duplex in the city. We should try to figure this out instead of trying to bring faster internet to the rich who live in the area.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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1. "The rich control the purse strings for all of Buffalo." ?? few in the burs are 'rich'. Demographically, WNY has a dearth of big earners, certainly compared to much of America. How does an Amherst resident 'control' the purse strings of Buffalo, anyway? Because they don't live here, they 'control' our spending? Really?

2. "'They' decided to build up Transit Road while not investing money in Buffalo schools where it is needed most." Entirely 'their' choice. What exactly obliges anyone to donate to another township?

3. "They don't care about the poor in the city." Why should they? If you think there's some moral obligation to do so, then why aren't you complaining about the truly poor, whom our society seems to dismiss so easily (those in Haiti, Congo, Somalia, etc.)? If there's some moral requirement to bail out Buffalo's poor, then as brothers and sisters of the human family, there must be a far greater obligation to care for the desperately poor. Do you donate the bulk of your earnings to Save the Children? Your argument seems to indicate you should. After all, you're rich compared to them.

4. "The rich are getting richer off the sweat of the poor who work for them." Hardly. Mostly, the poor in Buffalo don't have jobs and don't do a thing economically or otherwise to help the suburbanites. All many of Buffalo's poor do, economically speaking, is cost taxpayers a bundle in handouts and health care, education and prison. Most suburbanites benefit not one whit from the poor in Buffalo.

5. "I don't know how someone can go home to a mansion in Elma knowing that their employees are struggling to even get by in a duplex in the city." Well, if such an Elma resident owned a company, I'd thank him or her for creating jobs. If the jobs don't pay enough, I'd thank other employers for competing for my skills with more attractive wages. I grew up in a duplex in Buffalo. My parents worked hard, but money was always very tight. The street upon which I dwell today (in Buffalo) is dominated by doubles. Living in a double in Buffalo in 2010 is a considerably better station in life than most of humanity experienced for most of history, including most of humanity alive at this moment. At least in our society there is a path for upward mobility (as clearly demonstrated by some of those suburbanites). While I strongly disagree with the concentration of wealth in the top 5% of American earners, your argument is so over the top that it brings out the capitalist entrepreneur in me.

replied to STANCSEA
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A moral obligation did exist in America before our capitalist greed and secularism took over. Now we are all in it for ourselves, screw anyone else.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Your statement has been repeatedly for decades. The only thing correct about it is that it's incorrect.

replied to STANCSEA
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When exactly did that moral imperative exist? Was it in the 1600s when Salem hunted for witches (for the greater good and God, mind you)? Was it when we displaced Native Americans for the profit of British franchisees? How about when slavery was protected by Congress the President and the Supreme Court? Is that the moment of moral fortitude you reference? Maybe you speak of 1900 and the immigrant tenements of NY, as illustrated in Upton Sinclair's 'The Jungle'. Maybe that's the idyllic past of which you speak. Or perhaps the roaring twenties, or the Dust Bowl. Maybe Steinbeck's your historian.

No? Did that day come later? say the 50s? the day of Jim Crow, Freedom Rides, Little Rock and Selma? Nixon? When, plus or minus a decade or two, was this great American moral moment which prevented the excesses of capitalism, even if only temporarily? And, corollary question: When exactly did we succumb to this virulent greed you lustily disdain?

replied to STANCSEA
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Your right, we have always been a greedy, selfish, and self centered culture. I guess we never had a moral backbone, it was all about taking from the less fortunate to make ourselves richer. We did it to the Native Americans, we did it to the African Americans, we did it to Latin Americans, we did it to poor immigrants, and we are still doing it today.

It is the survival of the richest, screw everyone else. That is our heritage and from what I read in your comment, it is a heritage that you are proud of. America, land of the rich and home of the slaves.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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You are right. Now read some world history so you can put it all in the proper context.

replied to STANCSEA
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I am not sure what you mean.

replied to KarlMalone
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maybe he should read about it at one of the Morgan Libraries, or one of the universities built by Carnegie. he could always think about it during walk in a national park set aside by the Rockefellers, or even Delaware Park (designed as a private undertaking).

replied to KarlMalone
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nice reply. Didn't know Delaware Park was a private undertaking. What's the story?

replied to sin|ill
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from Steve Cichon's 'History of Parkside'.

-Olmstead was brought to Buffalo at private expense by a group of "public-spirited gentelmen" to examine the situation and recommend a desirable park scheme.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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maybe olmsted was hired by private citizens but the city took his advice and built delaware park at public expense. the original proposal is online.

http://tinyurl.com/yk4kusu


replied to sin|ill
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Great link. Fascinating read. How much more literate people were then.

replied to grad94
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We have a limited amount of money in NY to allocate between everyone who needs it. To put millions of dollars into easing traffic in overbuilt suburbs while cutting funding for deserving schools is sinful. Where is the moral obligation to the poor kids in the city? Our obligation seems to be to appease the rich in Amherst who had to spend five minutes to get from Target to Bon-Ton on Transit Road. Meanwhile, more poor kids give up and drop out every day. There is little for them to look forward to, because being rich is an obscure concept for them to imagine.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Stansea>"To put millions of dollars into easing traffic in overbuilt suburbs while cutting funding for deserving schools is sinful."

Cutting funding for schools? When was that ever cut? Education spending has skyrocketed in NY state. It's doubled since 1997, growing far more than inflation, even while the state's population is stagnant.

Chart: http://tinyurl.com/nys-state-local-ed-spending

Can you cite any real information that says school funding was cut in Buffalo or anywhere in NYS?

replied to STANCSEA
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I disagree with your 4th point, most of the poor in Buffalo do have jobs, these jobs are low paid, part time, or off the books. We have reduced the opportunities for those at the bottom, in part because of greed at the top. Concentration of wealth upwards has not worked very well for most Americans. We wouldn't need so many social service programs if the average person could earn a decent wage.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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There is a FACEBOOK group to encourage people to support this effort. Someone has designed a very attractive, Buffalo-specific logo for it, too.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=302036175685&ref=ss

It's a way to measure the enthusiasm of Western New Yorkers for this possibility.

Other cities have more than a 1000 supporters (Baton Rouge has 1318 members).

Buffalo -- so far -- has just over 600 people.

Why don't all of you reading this join the Facebook Group and bump up the numbers?

If folks put as much energy in trying to accomplish this as some people do into figuring out why it's impossible, maybe it might happen.

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