Regional February 25, 2010 9:35 AM

GM Invests in Area Plant

GM Invests in Area Plant
General Motors will invest $425 million and create nearly 470 jobs at the Tonawanda Engine plant to produce the next generation fuel efficient Ecotec engine.  

The investment will add capacity, allowing the plant to produce 370,000 engines per year, and includes facility renovation, new machinery, equipment and special tooling to support this engine program at plants in New York, Ohio, and Michigan.  

The Ecotec engine family is known for its reliability, fuel efficiency and performance. GM Ecotec engines have been on the forefront of delivering leading edge technology including direct injection, variable valve timing and turbocharging. Direct fuel injection, a hallmark of many Ecotec engines since 2007, is just now becoming mainstream technology in the industry.   
 
In addition, production of the state-of-the-art four-cylinder engines signals GM's commitment to replace larger-displacement engines with more compact, advanced four-cylinder engines that optimize fuel savings and performance 
 
"I am truly proud of the men and women of the Tonawanda Engine plant, as well as the leadership provided by UAW Local 774," said Steve Finch, Tonawanda Engine plant manager.  "We all have worked together to help Tonawanda Engine get to this great announcement. We will now work even harder to earn the trust that GM has placed in us as we strive to build the world's best engines." 
  
For competitive reasons, specifics about the engine capabilities as well as product applications will be shared at a later date.  

"This investment is monumental as it is a true reflection of the sincere work ethics of our employees," said Bob Coleman, UAW Local 774 chairman.  "Through their dedication and beliefs, we overcame adversity and remained a viable facility within GM.  We will continue working diligently in our efforts to remain a formidable facility. Obviously this is great news for not only our employees, but for our community as well." 

More information on the new General Motors can be found at www.gm.com
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This story has been up for over 12 hours without one comment. Seems like positive economic news adding 470 decent paying union jobs, even has a green angle. Are we just to cynical to recognize progress?

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This is great news, but the story was in the Buffalo News almost a full week earlier. I'm as excited now as I was then, but it was old news by the time it hit BR. I think that's what made for fewer comments.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Yeah, it is rather old news.

replied to soupcan
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Awesome! 100 more of these stories please. Speaking of 'green', the US has over 100 years worth of natural gas and wonderfully filthy disgusting coal. We'll soon have tons more yummy nuclear power and Bloom Boxes are starting to bloom. In other words, when our industrial competitors (take your pick) run out of available cheap energy, we'll still have it in abundance and that means more manufacturing jobs making the green cars and energy efficient stuff everyone wants.

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Blackrocklifer - Obvioulsy the angst caused to the typical yuppie Buffalo Rising poster by the addition of a 2nd story to the ugly 1-story credit union building is of much more signficance than the great news in this article.

Give the choice of either having 470 new good paying jobs, or having the credit union torn down and rebuilt to the street, most posters here would choose the latter.

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Hourly wages for these jobs are about half of the starting pay under "old GM". That sucks but it would be interesting to see if a more competitive price of labor will lead to more investment in WNY by GM or other auto companies.

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This is good news.

I think the hesitation in posting about it is it touches on so many hot button issues.

The free market/private enterprise guys...can't really say this is a victory for free enterprise, after the bailout. (Maybe this is what we get locally for a trillion dollars in new federal debt.)

Union vs. nonunion... ugh. They're paid too much, they're paid too little. Dad worked in the union, but I choose not to.

Green? If it's related to global warming, seems like the data's been tinkered with. But if you say that out loud, the majority here will label you a small minded, backward thinking tea bagger... or something worse.

I drive GM, and will til I die. The jobs are good news, but with the debt we're piling on as a nation, and the recent poor economic news makes (take your choice... double dip recession, or an unsupportable federal budget five to seven years out...or China weening itself from our bonds) it's hard to see a silver lining.

I can't remember the last time a company made an announcement (greater than 50 jobs) that didn't have some government money attached to it. Let's hope that changes some time soon.

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Great comments Ben Franklin.

replied to benfranklin
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I think your right about the hesitation but-
The debt incurred during 8 years of Bush left this country in shambles and was basically squandered on a war and tax cuts for the wealthy. Hopefully the new debt will trickle down to help regular people.

As for the unions, as Pitbull pointed out, this is not our father union wages, these guys are making half as much.

On green, it isn't just about global warming (even though 90% of scientists agree we are part of that problem). It is about conserving our dwindling resources and cleaning up our environment. Just good common sense stewardship, Again, something that was ignored by the previous administration.

replied to benfranklin
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You've confirmed why I hesitated to post on this topic. We have similar backgrounds and upbringings, even similar pursuits, but we couldn't see the issues you've commented upon any more differently.

If you we're upset by Bush and his spending, then Obama must be killing you. Don't see much of a backdown on the war, does that concern you as well? Guess we should have just ignored the planes that flew into the Towers... wonder if the relatives of the dead would see the war as 'squandering' our resources. I can't think of a more worthy endeavour.

Glad to see you've taken to 'trickle down' economics. Maybe there is hope.


replied to Blackrocklifer
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That is what makes us Americans, our different views. Obama's spending is only due to the mess he inherited, I wish that was not the case. It would have been much better if Bush knew how to budget our money and left a surplus as Clinton did. I am disappointed the war still rages on, we should know better. As for 911, Iraq had no involement, I am sure you know that.

replied to benfranklin
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The Bush tax cuts coupled with profligate spending on unnecessary and counterproductive wars dug our economy a hole a mile wide which ANY successor would have a devil of a time digging out of. George W. Bush: leading candidate for Worst President Ever.

You can't think of a more worthy endeavor than bombing and making war??? Really??? The victims of 9/11 are not somehow redeemed by the slaughter of tens of thousands of others who had NOTHING to do with 9/11. How pathetic that our culture glorifies destroying other lives for revenge (in that regard, America is no better than the terrorists).

The US invasion of Iraq: defining moment of when America lost any moral high ground in the eyes of the rest of humanity.

replied to benfranklin
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"Free enterprise guys"? I dare you, no, I DOUBLE dare you, no, I TRIPLE DARE YOU to name one TRULY FREE MARKET ECONOMY anywhere on this earth. Go ahead, I'm waiting. Half the socialism in this country masquerades as "free enterprise" what with all the little government giveaways to big corporations and "little inducements" that promote some of the worst practices in banking, health care, etc.etc. But the Reaganite drone never ends, does it? Shower the rich corporations with tax cuts and huge regulatory loopholes, but god forbid 470 workers get new jobs as a result of an investment in productivity and competitive industry and here come the cries of "socialism"!

replied to benfranklin
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You'd think you might read my post before commenting. I said the free market posters can't really comment positively about these new jobs, because of the bailout.

That being said, you really have no clue. Reagan was all about limiting the size of government, not giving bailouts, and letting the benefit of reduced taxes 'trickle down' to everyone. Compare the outcomes of those policies vs. what we have today (and unfortunately for at least the near future).

The businesses that will flourish tommorow will not be based on handouts. The Microsofts-Googles-Ciscos-Yahoo's are based on innovation, not handouts. Our country thrived for two hundred years based on the inventions of Ford, Watson, Edison, Graham, etc. Yes, once these companies become established, they take advantage of the nieve bureacrats and their handouts.

If your idealistic liberal world were come to pass...where do the innovations of tomorrow come from? Just as you should be glad there are men and women willing to protect your freedom, you should say a word of thanks to the few free-market capitalists that still exist. Their creating the business that you can tax out of existence in the future. It's what you're best at. But to be proud of it? That's depressing.

replied to sonyactivision
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Ronald Regan, imbecile extraordinaire (imo) & forever mentally stuck in the mire of 'cold war', campaigned in 1980 against the massive federal debt facing the country which was at the time approaching one trillion dollars. He decried leaving our children and grandchildren this financial burden. During the Carter/Regan debate he drove home this point by illustrating just how tall a stack of $100 dollar bills representing that debt would be. But then in complete and utter disregard for his 'deep' concern about federal borrowing, Regan proceeded to treble that debt (who needs consistency, anyway?) and his successor (bush 41) promised 'no new taxes' and raised the debt more than another trillion.

Now, with regard to Clinton and the Republican Congress' reversal of that debt, let it be recognized that if it weren't for the Republican Congress, that debt reduction would never have happened. The Dems were largely not in favor of reigning in spending. Clinton was to the right of the Dem party on that matter, and good thing that. He succeeded largely with Republican support on that issue. Too bad the Republicans had no such concerns under Bush 43.

We are today between a rock and a hard place, fiscally. We have to begin soaking up the federal borrowing, which will inevitably put a damper on the economy. But the alternative is massive inflation (last caused by another Democrat, this time Lyndon Johnson, who refused to tax for his two wars--poverty and Viet Nam--lest the taxation derail popular support for those endeavors. He left the cleanup to Richard Nixon--are you old enough, benfranklin, to remember Nixon's price controls, phases 1, 2 & 3?--and Carter. Rather than reign in spending then, Congress and presidents found inflation preferable). Nixon's price controls didn't work (13.5% inflation in 1973) any more than Carter's policies. Economies are like very large ships with lots of momentum. They don't turn on a dime and often have very little to do with whoever happens to be president at the time. The inflation under Carter was caused by liquidity ushered in by LBJ and the Dems of the 1960s, not Nixon or Carter.

Similarly, Regan didn't end the inflationary spikes Carter dealt with; the deep recession which began as he started his first term did that for him. Instead, his tax reductions ballooned the debt, undermining the economy.

We haven't yet paid the price for the ridiculously underfunded spending of Bush 43 and now the Dems and Obama. But there is no pretty end to such profligate spending coupled with niggardly taxation. It will end in inflation or recession or both.

replied to benfranklin
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Great news for the hardworking men and women of local 774 who have been affected by unfair import and export laws. It is a good thing to see so many offered a chance to return to work and improve the strength of our American economy. These are the men and women who built America, and they are the future of a strong America.

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Bottom line is both GM and Ford have shown their commitment to WNY time and time again and its about time Buffalo showed its commitment to GM and Ford.

Great announcement GM, thanks for the faith in Buffalo and care for the environment through new more efficient engines.

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In your mind, which was worse for America, the Bush tax cuts, or 9/11?

And whose 'slaughtering' individuals? We send patriotic individuals to do what's asked of them... in response to people being burned to death while sitting at their desks.

Sorry, but it's not too difficult for me to decide which side of that fight we should be on.

Just so we're clear, I'm not really concerned about how we're viewed by the rest of humanity. When they have a problem (name the catastrophe) they don't have a problem putting a hand out, and we respond (rightfully so).

One would think a person in real estate might have a better handle on the markets, interest rates, housing bubbles, credit default swaps, and the other issues that have us hip deep in this current economic morass. Then again, guess it's just easier to blame it on Bush.

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It is not difficult for me to decide which side of that fight to be on. We were on the wrong side attacking the wrong country while letting the real enemy get away.
I do care about the image of America, maybe if more Americans were as concerned we would not be involved in this endless and futile war on terror (or to quote Borat "the war of terror")

replied to benfranklin
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Question to BRO: Why does pressing 'tab' make the comment publish? That's poor. Anyway . . .

I assume, Benfranklin, that you are asking the questions of me, so I'll respond.

1. "Which was worse: Bush or his tax cuts?" Bush by far. The tax cuts were indefensible, imo. They didn't do anything positive for the economy because they undermined our nation's fiscal position. But the damage they did certainly pales in comparison to the president. He was an all timer.

2. So we send brave young idealists into an arena to murder the enemy, who in turn tries to murder our brave soldiers and contractors. Unfortunately for those caught in the crossfire, far more civilians have been killed in Iraq (and Afghanistan) than soldiers, and far, far more Iraqis (and Afghanis) have been killed by US weapons than were killed here on 9/11 and all other terrorist acts combined. Have you ever heard that two wrongs don't make a right?

And, related question: What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

3. "Which side are you on?": Bush in a nutshell. There's 'us' and there's 'them' according to this view. The real world is a little more nuanced than that. US foreign policy grows these terrorists. You don't care what the rest of the world thinks about us? Figures. It's precisely our ignorance which begets our wrong headed foreign policies which in turn begets this hatred expressed through terrorism. But you're right: Why think about why so many people hate us? We do enough for them, right? Which leads us to:

4. "They don't have a problem putting a hand out." Right. Let's take Haiti. All American aid, governmental and otherwise, has been less than $500 million (the Feds are offering $100 million of that, the rest being donations from joe citizen and relief groups). That's less than the cost of ONE DAY of the Iraq war. Forget for the time being that Woodrow Wilson invaded Haiti to dethrone a democracy and install a junta more friendly to the US (which led to the reign of the Duvaliers and Haiti's impoverishment). (for that matter, Wilson also invaded Cuba and Mexico and the Philippines before WWI and Russia after it (1918-20)). Our aid to Haiti is paltry, farcically meager, in relation to the disaster that constitutes life there. And much of their misery stems from the American military conquest decades ago.

5. "One would think a person in real estate might have a better handle on markets . . ." I'll go you one better: I'm not only a real estate agent (commercial) and building owner (commercial), I also have a BA in economics (Canisius).

Re: the recession which threw the Republicans out of office: I don't have to just blame Bush. I can blame the rest of the idiot Republicans for that catastrophe (financial meltdown caused by the game of financial 'hot potato'). It is the Republican Party which incessantly calls for an end to odious government oversight and regulation, the Republican Party which insists that markets are self regulating, the Republican Party which glorifies profit above production, getting rich (quick) for the sake of god and country. Lots of people making lots of money convinced themselves it was okay to look the other way when inventing derivatives and credit default swaps which were full of undisclosed risks. It is patently fraudulent to bundle a batch of 'high risk' mortgages into a financial instrument which is rated as 'low risk'. Follow the money and regulate the markets.

replied to benfranklin
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Excellent comment, I have always had an interest in history and believe our electorate (and our country) would greatly benefit if more Americans had a better understanding of our past. Unfortunately the "my country right or wrong" mentality seems to be most prevalent and the ignorance of our history continues to enable that view.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Post of the year!

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Bini>"I can blame the rest of the idiot Republicans for that catastrophe (financial meltdown caused by the game of financial 'hot potato'). It is the Republican Party which incessantly calls for an end to odious government oversight and regulation, the Republican Party which insists that markets are self regulating, the Republican Party which glorifies profit above production, getting rich (quick) for the sake of god and country."

Bini is right.
The most widespread deregulation of investment banking in U.S. history was signed into law by Republican President Bill Clinton in 1999, championed by his Republican Treasury Secretary Larry Summers (who was again appointed as a top economic adviser by the current Republican president... -sigh- will Repugs EVER learn?).

It was voted for by idiot greedy Republican senators including current Republican V.P. Joe Biden, as well as clueless greedy idiot market-worshiping child-starving Republicans such as Chris Dodd, Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, John Edwards, Pat Leahy, and many others - all Republicans!
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=106&session=1&vote=00105

So next time any Repug apologists try to lie about financial deregulation being bipartisan, point out to them how it was Republicans like Clinton, Biden, Kennedy, Edwards, Schumer, and Reid who made it happen. Ask them to name even one Democrat who supported it. They won't be able to because it was all Republicans.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Nice link. Note that in the 54-44 vote which you reference, ALL 44 'Nay' votes were Democratic. Not a single Republican voted in against and only TWO Democrats voted in favor. Clinton was wrong. Most of the Dems were right.

44 Dems against, only 2 in favor, all Republicans in favor. Yep, pretty much a bipartisan bill, that. You're right, there really was no difference between the parties.

replied to whatever
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Good catch. The names I listed in previous comment did vote for it in the end. The previous link must have been a preliminary vote.

Here's the final vote which passed 90-8.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=106&session=1&vote=00354

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Re: final vote 90-8: Gutless lemmings! They sold out for community reinvestment act re-authorization. Idiots.

Most politicians, imo, are fairly clueless about economics in general. History, too, but economics particularly. They all seem to drink the local flavor Kool Aid, whether that is the pro-union concoction or the laissez faire variant. Beyond learning the talking points of their donors' lobbyists, I'm doubtful most could tell you much.

I would have voted against this act, based on one Dr. Murphy's rants (econ chair when I was a student. Regulations in place since the great depression were done away with in the Reagan administration, when I was an econ student and my department chairman was nearly apoplectic about Congress' foolishness in allowing same. S&L crisis stirred the pot).

But beyond this one act (Gramm Leach, which, perhaps, didn't cause or exacerbate the problem as some claim), there is very clear delineation betwixt party philosophies, generally speaking, regarding oversight and regulation of markets. Bush was very specific in his choices to head agencies, selecting chief administrators who shared his (and much of his party's) 'hands off' philosophy. Dodd and others raised concerns to Greenspan in 2004 about unconventional mortgages spiking a future disaster in mortgages. Clinton (with whom I disagree on some key economic matters) may have been as bright eyed as Gingrich when in came to things like NAFTA, but he was certainly to the right of 'W' on most matters economic, even if he failed (as I think he did) to wrangle with the underlying fundamental weakness in our economy alluded to below by Jimmy.

replied to whatever
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On a related note, it was also only Republicans like Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, both Republicans by the way, who used their committee seniority to push for looser strings on subprime mortgages and oppose tighter regulations on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Well-known Republican Rahm Emanuel even used his connections as a political hack in the Republican Clinton administration (and finance skills he gained as a dance major in college) to get a 7-figure salary at an investment banking firm and a board directorship at Freddie Mac, then using his greedy "earnings" to run for Congress as a Republican, before of course being appointed as a Republican White House chief of staff.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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I'm not saying there weren't idiot Dems in favor of deregulation. They were imbeciles, too. But at least they were the exceptions in their party, as opposed to lockstep unison in the Republican Party on the wrong side of the issue.

replied to whatever
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Democrats took control of both houses of Congress on 01/01/2007.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006

Federal budgets passed in 2007, '08, and '09 were their doing. They could've reversed any previous tax cuts at any time in 2007, but didn't. In all of 2008, they didn't reverse the tax cuts either. In all of 2009, they also didn't. That adds up to over 1,000 days in which Democrats could have but chose not to reverse tax cuts that are alledegly so harmful to the nation. Now this year they're debating among themselves whether to let some parts of the tax cuts passed in '01-'03 expire.

At what point does the Democrat party become co-owners of those tax cuts? Says me, that already happened over 3 years ago in Jan 2007.

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It is a shame that both parties are so far right and cater to the wealthy, we need a new direction in this country.

replied to whatever
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Moderate democrats have pleaded for the cuts to remain in place. Reps. Bobby Bright (D-Ala.) and Mike McMahon (D-N.Y.) asked members in a “Dear Colleague” letter ...

“Allowing these tax rates to expire during this recession runs the risk of curtailing economic expansion just when it begins to pick up and could lead to a ‘double dip’ recession,” says the letter to Obama."

...guess they didn't get the memo that these tax cuts harm the economy.

replied to whatever
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^see my previous comment.

replied to benfranklin
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Hmmm... Reagan is an imbecile. Thought you were the historian? Cold war was won by Reagan. If not, we'd still be in an arms race (and the huge expenditure that entailed), or dead.

Your stance that all republicans are x, and others are y, is sophmoric. Read either (or both) Greenspans latest book, or Paulson's, and you'll see that neither parties hands are clean when it comes to Wall Street. I think the 'too big to fail' decision was dangerous, but in a complicated world, it may have proven to be the better of two evils. We'll never know, but the unintended consequence (there always is one with government intervention) is that Wall Street has learned a lesson, but not the right one. Washington will bail us out if we really screw up.

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Ah, franklin.

I'll take your responses in reverse order. First, I agree with the 'too big to fail' lesser of two evils the Fed faced down. Given the dire circumstances, I am confident they acted in the best interests of the country (Paulson's misgivings duly noted and a nod to him for ignoring his philosophical predisposition to let the marketplace chips fall as they might have--after he learned his lesson from Lehman). They did the right thing in very trying circumstances and we didn't fall into another Great Depression thanks to Geitner, Bernacke and a reluctant Paulson.

Second point: I do not believe that all Democrats are one thing vs. all Republicans being another. Yet the votes on market regulation are extraordinarily telling: the Republican Party (as their ads never tire of telling us) is the party of deregulation; the Democrats are (as a party) extraordinarily more cautious and reliant on governmental oversight. There is no way to whitewash this into an imaginary circumstance where both parties equally believe the same things; look at the lopsided votes in Congress. Yes, there are Democratic idiots and Republican geniuses, but the parties do indeed fall on one side of the divide, generally speaking, not evenly on all sides (and for further evidence of my even handedness in such matters, see comments above regarding LBJ and congressional Democrats as cause of '70s era inflation).

But let's get to your first point: the farce of Reagan: "if not (for him) we'd still be in an arms race". Good laugh! What a joke! It was REAGAN's arms buildup, which he campaigned on and delivered (he was humiliated that the armed forces seemed gutted under Carter) in the first place which led to the arms race of the 80s!!! (and, let's criticize a Democrat where do: it was JFK who was the biggest imbecile of them all regarding an arms race; Eisenhower (Republican, duly noted) was exactly correct in his assessment that the US was comfortably ahead of the Soviets. JFK's misreading of history and intelligence led directly to the destabilizing and catastrophic waste of the arms race in the 60s and 70s).

Ronald Reagan did NOT win the cold war!! The Soviet economy did that all by itself. It was hopelessly uncompetitive. When I graduated high school (in 1978, three years before RR's first term started), not ONE of my fellow students believed the Soviets could produce an automobile or dishwasher or space ship or Twinkie which competed with the west, and we were right. The Soviet economy was a joke. Central planning is always a disaster. Reagan didn't defeat the Soviets. But his arms race helped bankrupt them. Unfortunately, that bankruptcy also drove the communists into an extremely haphazard and dangerous collapse where nuclear and biological material and scientists were unguarded and available for the picking.

If you want to look for the cause of the Soviet collapse, look to Chechoslovakia (1968, not 1938). Conservatives never tire of warning us that Chechoslovakia circa 1938 is history's lesson for us: stand up to tyranny of die via some Hitler. But 1968, when the Soviets were forced to reinstall Dubcek nine months after toppling him is more informative. An unpopular power can never long dominate a foreign land. You want to find reason for the end of the Soviet Union? Look to the Catholic church electing a Polish Pope and then Solidarity (before, btw, Regan came to office). The Soviets couldn't forever spend the resources and men needed to maintain an empire (as no power can). Giving Reagan credit for ending the cold war is like crediting the rooster with bringing the dawn. It's laughable (although it is Republican orthodoxy, misguided as it is).

replied to benfranklin
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I love these half-baked Reagan cultists with their free market fundamentalist ideology. The truth is that COMMUNIST CHINA has done a far better job of managing a capitalist economy over the last 30 years than these market ideologues. While the west has seen huge bubbles inflate and then burst with terrible consequences as their debt has risen to extraordinary heights, China has deftly avoided two huge finacial shocks, in 1997 and 2008 while continuing to maintain growth rates unmatched through the reagan years and beyond. State control of markets has given China these advantages not because of some Maoist doctrine but by their deft use of our own time-tested Keynesian principles, the ones that the Laffer Curve crowd detest so vociferously. In fact, nobody mimics the Fed better than the Chinese Central Bank to the point that they are better than the Fed. Their stimulus package was a major success in regrowing their economy and creating jobs than that miserable garbage that Bush and later, Obama inplemented. When they see bubbles form, they take decisive action rather than trying to "talk it down" as Alan Greenspan did on more than one occasion to no avail. Yep, the Reagan model is great if you like $12 trillion deficits, 2-3% annual growth, and 8% unemployment.

replied to benfranklin
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Can you name one innovation that came from China?

The broad sweep of history has proven capitalism to do the greatest good for the largest number of people. It's kind of cool that american innovation gives you a platform to spout your marxist views. And I won't even call you a nasty name. Enjoy your Sunday.

replied to sonyactivision
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Dude buy a calendar. Do you still think it's 1969? Do you think the Chinese people are still planting rice in a worker's collective? wake up! They are kicking your Reagan butt in the practice of capitalism. They are filing more patents than the US. They are creating huge centers of innovation and graduating far more engineers and scientists that the US. If you don't think they are formidable, you have been asleep for the last 10 years. And you Reagan cultist doctrine (which actually reads like Mao's "Little Red Book") is earning no points in the global game today. And if I was a Marxist, I would probably send you to a re-education camp and force you to lose all that Reaganomic teabagger fat through hard physical labor. But there's no need for that, when the Chinese have finally finished off their weak competitors, breaking stones might be your only route to a nice hot bowl of Campbell's Rice Soup!

replied to benfranklin
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Didn't think you could name one.

I'm very well aware of what's going on in China, and have done quite a bit of work with highly (some would say overly) educated people from India. New products need risk taking (and a lot more), so far we're not seeing that from the Chinese etc.

Going out back to the garage and coming up with a better product is a fairly american endeavour. It may be one of the few things we still do well. I'll allow that it has a downside (Wallstreet's not so great new gizmos... credit default swaps and the rest...), but it's the dream part in american dream.

replied to sonyactivision
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"Going out back to the garage and coming up with a better product is a fairly american endeavour. It may be one of the few things we still do well. I'll allow that it has a downside (Wallstreet's not so great new gizmos... credit default swaps and the rest...), but it's the dream part in american dream."
You still don't get it, do you? NONE of that is happening anymore. The only innovations here today are erection pills and iPads that add zero value to the economy. China has an active space program that will put a man on the moon by 2020, while the US has basically scrapped its space program. China is using technology acquired from its competitors and rebuilding it as their own, in aerospace, transportation, green energy and so on. Cry all you want, but they are doing things while we just sit in idle. They have a $2 trillion positive balnce while we are working towards a negative $14 trillion. In every endeavour, they are showing remarkable results that can't be ignored or papered over with old patriotic bromides.

replied to benfranklin
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We can nitpick and debate about the relative effectiveness of Reagan, Clinton, Bush(es) and Obama, but the truth is that America has been on a downward slide for the past 60 years. This slide has picked up speed and slowed down at various times, but the overall trend continues regardless of the political affiliation of the President or Congress.

We continue to lose economic strength. We have lost substantial political clout on the world stage, both in the UN and with specific countries. We continue to rely on military force to "persuade" other countries to see things our way, all in the name of protecting our freedoms and the American way.

There are many authors and commentators out there who are predicting the downfall of the United States, not as a complete collapse, but into a secondary status in the first world. The US will give way to economically stronger and more politically stable countries, unless we realize the deficiencies in our system and begin to fix them.

America, as it stands today, is a country that is stuck in neutral. We cannot reach a consensus on any major political, economic, social, environmental, military, or policy issue. Our government policies are heavily influenced by outside lobbyists and internal self interest, this has debilitated our country for decades. Right now, a win for most Americans involves their party gaining a perceived win over the other party. For a politician, a win is being affiliated with a policy change or bill that they can use as political leverage for re-election. In essence, most politicians maintain nothing greater than a 2 year horizon, as they work towards re-election and refuse to take up anything controversial that may hurt their professional political career.

In essence, all of our Presidents have been weak and relatively impotent since the late 50s, and our country and economy has suffered as a result. We should be thankful for the turmoil in other countries that helped us to hang on as long as we have, but as countries like China become stronger, the issues with America will be exacerbated and more apparent on the world stage. Unfortunately, I fear that we will respond with more military action instead of addressing the internal flaws that have weakened our economic proposition and clout on the world stage.

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Amen brother, but sometimes you do have to wield the stick.

replied to jimmy
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I've got a feeling Jimmy's got a good day job. It's worth while to consider where we've come over the last 400 years, it would be very interesting to know where will be a hundred years from now. (Blaming a turn in our local economic fortunes on a president, without considering the larger world picture is a bit like saying a hot day proves global warming.)

Be interesting to compare the average standard of living for a Buffalonian in 1910 vs. the world, and how that comparison would look today. I think we have an idea where it will be in 2110.

replied to jimmy
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I think your onto something about jimmy having a good day job, many of his comments lead me to believe he has no experience with poverty or poor people.

replied to benfranklin
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Yes, that must be it. If you work for a living you must be out of touch with the poor. You really are a tool!

replied to Blackrocklifer
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jimmy- you must misunderstand my comments, I advocate for the working poor, those like many of my neighbors that work for low wages or work 2 or more part time jobs to get by. These are the people that make it possible for the rest of us to live the comfortable (and some would say coddled) lifestyle that most Americans take for granted.

btw been working myself for 35+ years, make a very good living and pay a lot of taxes but I was not always so fortunate.

replied to jimmy
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I do agree our foreign policy is too dependant on the use of military might. Violence rarely solves any problems and should be used only defensively.
The "downward slide for the past 60 years" happens to coincide with greed and the resulting concentration of wealth at the top. In 1950 the top tax rate was 90% yet America and the middle class were thriving. Unions brought a decent standard of living to almost anybody willing to work. Wealth was measured in production of goods rather than shell games of manipulation.
Most Americans still lived in cities where services and infrastructure were efficiently and cost effectively provided. We didn't squander our tax dollars and resources enabling sprawl. Americans were content to live more modestly and did not embrace the crass materialism that has become the norm today.
Americans were less isolated from the poor and in turn were more likely to work for the common good. Somewhere along the way politicans of both parties lost sight of regular folks and became advocates for the most powerful. Today we are suffering as a result and our society is splintered and weakened.

replied to jimmy
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We are "suffering" because we are weak as a people. Our kids would rather play video games or yak all day on their cell phones than read a book. There is no future generation to build upon the legacy of the past, just a bunch of entitled brats that consider the number of their Facebook "friends" as an accomplishment. We are rapidly becoming a society of coddled idiots inhabiting the ruins of the ancestors who built them.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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I agree that our kids are coddled, our workers are spoiled, and too many have lost the work ethic that made this country great.

replied to sonyactivision
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There has been a retreat in our society from the values of work and perseverance. I grew up in a time when we were taught to maintain our home, car, and anything else we owned. We shingled our roof, painted our house, or did whatever was needed.
As individuals we can still teach our children these skills and to be productive. My kids learned by example to read, to work, and most importantly to pull their own way weight.
There are many kids from here in Black Rock that were not entitled or coddled and they are better for it. They made there own way, some became quite successful and some were not. The spoiled brats are more likely to come from more affluent households.

replied to sonyactivision
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And they all lived happily ever after, the end!

replied to Blackrocklifer
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As long as there's a happy ending...! :)

replied to jimmy
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