City February 15, 2010 7:59 AM

Buffalo Alumni Society Seeks Input

Buffalo Rising 25

Queenseyes told you about Buffalo Alumni Society in this post a few weeks back. In an effort to gather information from both expats and people currently living in Buffalo, the Alumni Society has added some discussion topics to their Facebook page, and they would like your input.

Under the "Discussions" tab, They ask the following:

1) What would it take to make you move back to the Buff?

2) For Buffalo residents: How would you view/leverage expats' passion for Buffalo?

3) If you were to re-engage with Buffalo as an expat, in what capacity would it be?

4) What are causes/groups/organizations in Buffalo that you support as an expat?

If you feel compelled to answer any of the above, please do so on the Facebook site.

A quick trip through the Buffalo Alumni Society wall posts will show a lot if "what if" scenarios for Buffalo - things the expats pull from what other cities are doing that could apply here in Buffalo. Feel free to join and comment. After all, there are a lot of expats with a deep knowledge of Buffalo and a good feel for what works in the cities they reside in now. Perhaps if some of these ideas are brought home, expats will follow.

Image: From the Alumni website.

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Comments

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Lego1981

February 15, 2010 10:46 AM

I would luv to see our Theater District Association, local Developers, and City Leaders come to together (much like the Erie Canal Harbor Group is doing for our waterfront) and come up with a plan, design and contact national and local retailers and restaurants, put in new builts over the vacant lots (FRANKLIN, PEARL, WASHINGTON & Even on MAIN near Tent City). Create a 24/7 Destination here again. A place that is vibrant during the off theater season, a 'DESTINATION' for shoppers, tourists, and people who like to be entertained. That is what a true 'Theater District' should offer. And what ours used to offer till it's decline as did the rest of the city. Now that people are coming back into the city again, it's time to reinvest in our Theater District.

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Sally

February 15, 2010 11:23 AM

Unfortunately people are NOT coming back into the city. It is expected that the new census will show that the City of Buffalo lost more residents during the 2000's than it did during the 1990's. In percentage terms the rate of decline from the 90's to the 2000's nearly doubled.

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urbanboarder

February 15, 2010 2:47 PM

I would have to disagree with that statement. The population decline in the city itself was around -35,000± between 1990 and 2000. From 2000 to 2008 that number is estimated to be around -22,000±. Unless you think the that number doubled in two years from 2008 to 2010, your scare tactics are wrong. Now, if you look at Erie County population loss, from 1990-2000 the County's population dropped about 18,000±, while from 2000-1008 it dropped around 40,000±. I think you must be referring to the overall county population decline, while fueled by Buffalo, the exodus is also occuring from many first ring suburbs and for many reasons - older declining housing stock, outrageous taxes, stagnant services and crumbling infrastructure. Cheektowaga is going to be the new east side within the next 20 years, and the neighborhoods immediately surroundign downtown are being repopulated as former residents have abandoned these areas for the first ring communities. We need a regional approach to government, management and development.

I was in Falafel Bar on Allen Saturday around dinner time, and overheard a couple who just relocated back to Buffalo from NJ talking with the waitress. These stories are all over the Allentown, Elmwood and Downtown neighborhoods. I think people will continue to return to their roots in Buffalo for the cheap cost of living, and high quality of life they can afford here. Jobs are the number one issue here, and its unfortunate petty politics control our lives and are holding us back from realizing our true potential.

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JSmith

February 15, 2010 3:51 PM

Definitely. There are a lot of young couples and families in my North Park neighborhood, too, people with a different attitude about city living than their parents' generation.

The 2010 census will say what it will say, but I am predicting a fairly stable population for the city overall. Some areas in the East Side and in Black Rock and Riverside are depopulating, but I think there has been significant growth in the Elmwood, Allentown, and Downtown areas.

I've personally brought five new people to the city within the decade (four by immigration, one by birth), so I'm trying to do my part to help repopulate Buffalo!

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whatever

February 17, 2010 12:11 AM

If the 2008 estimate is close to what the count would be, the city's been shrinking at close to the same rate from 1990 to now, about 1% a year (down 7.4% from '00 to '08, and in '90s down 10.8% over 10 yrs). While the rate hasn't worsened, I don't see reason to think it's "fairly stable". It looks close to the long term trend.

JS, did people you convinced to move here have jobs waiting here or did they take a chance that they'd find something? In that FB discussion page, the job market is the top reason expat-alumni give so far for not returning.

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JSmith

February 17, 2010 11:12 AM

Well, I looked at the American Community Survey yearly estimates (this is the survey that creates the census estimates). According to those estimates, the city of Buffalo actually gained population in 2007 (even while Erie county lost even more than Buffalo gained) and lost some again in 2008. However, the margins of error are larger than the estimated changes in population, so I think the only answer is we really do not know yet, but it's fair to say that the change is statistically insignificant right now.

2006: 257,758, MOE +/- 7,196
2007: 264,292, MOE +/- 8,474 (+6,534 people = +2.5%)
2008: 263,366, MOE +/- 8,797 (-926 people = -0.35%)

Data retrieved from http://factfinder.dads.census.gov/servlet/MYPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=16000US3611000&-qr_name=ACS_2008_1YR_G00_CP5_1&-ds_name=ACS_2008_1YR_G00_&-_lang=en&-redoLog=false

Note the statistical significance columns: they have not found a statistically significant difference in population from 2006 to 2008. The only significant changes relate mostly to a shift in the age demographic (the median age has fallen from 35.7 to 32.0) and a shift in the proportions of races.

Regarding my personal experience, I moved back to Buffalo for a better job in 2004. My fiancee moved here with me and found a good job before we moved. The other people are a baby (no job yet) and two retirees (who don't have jobs, but do circulate federal money from social security and disability into the local economy). That's just 5 people, and believe me, I would not call the job market here booming. On the other hand, it really isn't anywhere these days.

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whatever

February 17, 2010 12:58 PM

Strange. Even taking into account MOE, that 2006 number of 258K you found looks very different than the 2006 estimate on census.gov which is about 20,000 higher.

"Buffalo (city), New York Population, 2006 estimate 276,059"
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36/3611000.html

I'm not questioning your reference, but maybe different groups do estimates different ways.

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whatever

February 17, 2010 1:02 PM

You're right the nationwide job market is very weak now. The question some expat-alumni might wonder about when considering returning is how it will compare here once some real jobs recovery starts up nationally, eventually.

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Sally

February 15, 2010 4:12 PM

I stand corrected it is Erie County as a whole that lost more people in the current 10 years than in the 1990's. Buffalo is on target to lose yet another 10% of it's population just as it did during the 1990's. Erie county OUTSIDE the city will go from GAINING a net of 17,500 people will this decade lose a net loss of approximately 12,000 people. Providing of course the census estimates are accurate. After all they underestimated Erie County's population by nearly 30,000 prior to the 2000 census.

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BfloExpatAbroad

February 16, 2010 6:05 AM

What would it take for me to move back? That's a good one.

Well, for starters, there could be a citywide campaign to teach people that when they agree to show-up at a certain place at a certain time, they might actually consider doing so. And, if they can't manage that, there's a device called a "telephone" that they can use to inform the person who's waiting for them.

Until the locals master that art, I don't see much hope for the area.

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DOC

February 16, 2010 3:01 PM

Seriously BfloExpatAbroad...you sound like a spurned lover. That's a ridiculous comment to make. Please stay whre you are. And by the way most people I know have "cells" not telephones! Seriously.

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BfloExpatAbroad

February 16, 2010 6:34 PM

One time, when I was working a part time job in Williamsville, the woman I was living with (also from outside of Buffalo) suggested that I invite my shift manager over for dinner. So, I invited him, he accepted, I gave him a Yahoo Map print-out of where to go. She and I cleaned the house and cooked a bunch of stuff and... no show. I called his cell phone, no answer. 90 minutes later, we decided to have dinner on our own.

About 8 PM, he called, said he had dinner at his mom's house and fell asleep. He'd forgotten about the whole thing.

You really don't see anything wrong with that kind of thing at all, do you, DOC? My room-mate and I must've had a "personal problem".

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whatever

February 16, 2010 11:48 PM

You're seriously saying things like that don't happen everywhere as part of human nature? You're kidding, right?

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sho'nuff

February 17, 2010 7:06 AM

I've read the same comments from you a few times, and all I can say is get over it and move on already.

You are using one rude person to characterize everyone in the entire metro region? I sure hope that people aren't using you to characterize all of Buffalo in your new city.

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BfloExpatAbroad

February 18, 2010 5:55 AM

Actually, it was /a bunch/ of rude people, if you've read my past entries. Frankly, it got kind of tiresome.

If any of you polite, charming folks can explain what it takes to get Buffalonians to actually /cooperate/ when you make good-faith efforts to socially-engage them, I'd be appreciative. If I was hanging-out with the "wrong crowd", what's the right crowd to hang-out with, then?

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KarlMalone

February 17, 2010 8:13 AM

I understand what you are talking abot ExPat. One time at band camp...

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NorPark

February 17, 2010 9:29 AM

In all your little pent up rants about getting stood up here and there, there is one common denominator.... just saying.

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DOC

February 16, 2010 2:58 PM

What is going on in Buffalo that other metro areas would like to emulate? We always hear about what other cities are doing that we could import here. I happen to think that there is a lot going on here over the past 5 years and I would like to know what some other cities are seeing in Buffalo that they like which could be imported to their metros? Developing this perspective could enhance our self-esteem as a city and as a people. My feeling is that Buffalo has not turned the corner yet on its inferiority complex always seeing other cities as better. We as a city and a people are so want to accept the idea that all other cities are in better shape. Let me tell you that is DEFINITELY not the case. Recently while visiting the Indianapolis area I met a person who had just moved back to Indianapolis after spending some years in Buffalo. They said that Buffalo has a lot more going on in terms of interesting housing developments, theatre and just overall culture. In terms of jobs let me tell you that outside of a few cities in Texas (imagine that!) every city in the country is hurting for jobs. And in terms of real estate, Buffalo has one of the most stable realestate markets in the nation. So what do we have here that other cities would like to have? I pose that question.

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EricOak

February 17, 2010 11:04 AM

That's a useful insight. One of the most lazy mantras on BRO comments is: "well, in other cities..." All cities do some things right and many things wrong, and in all cities there are large demographic and social factors that no community can easily manage. For the amount of bad luck, poor decisions, and crazy history that Buffalo has weathered the past 100 plus years, I think it's impressive how functional, hopeful and alive with projects the city still is. Not to mention the enduring beauty of many of its streets, neighborhoods and parkways.

But I disagree with your sweeping description of the entire area as ill with self-loathing and envy for other cities. I never felt that, and most serious people I know don't think that way. I always enjoyed telling people I was from Buffalo, and I can count on one hand the number of smirks I got in response. They were from unsophisticated people. Intelligent people don't disparage any city or any place where people live and find meaning.

There is a strong comparative urge in Americans that is not always constructive. It's time to reject this single-minded view of what makes a city meaningful or good to live in. Time to retire vain buzzwords like "cool", "vibrant", and "progressive." Why should we resort to one limited set of adjectives to interpret every city? The Buffalo Alumni Society is an encouraging gesture toward busting out of that frame, toward seeing what is individual and soulful about Buffalo.

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JSmith

February 17, 2010 11:25 AM

Tell you what, if you go to www.city-data.com and look in the city forum for ANY city, you will find lots of people ranting about what a dump it is and how they can't wait to leave.

I do believe in this notion of "self-loathing", though. Just read the online comments on a Buffalo News article for example. There is a constant theme that nothing good will ever happen here, because "this is Buffalo". Or whether it's the demolition of the Statler or the expatriation of St. Gerard's, the comments are full of people with no appreciation for the city's history or built environment.

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EricOak

February 17, 2010 12:15 PM

Yes, I know what you mean. There is some amount of self-loathing here; my point is that it's not the default position of most intelligent people in Buffalo. And it's certainly not unique to Buffalo, as you point out. Every city, especially older Northern cities, has loud folks who enjoy making a cartoon out of their city. We should raise our voices in chorus to drown them out.

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whatever

February 17, 2010 1:07 PM

Is your comment implying that disagreeing with your views about St Gerards and the Statler is the same thing as saying nothing good can ever happen in Buffalo?

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JSmith

February 17, 2010 2:02 PM

Not quite that extreme. I'm saying that the people whose knee-jerk reaction is "get rid of that old building and put up a parking ramp" have a severe lack of civic self-esteem.

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whatever

February 18, 2010 11:56 AM

"severe lack of civic self-esteem"

As with patriotism, there's a lot of subjectivity in different people's defintions of "civic self esteem". I won't criticize your defintion of it even though I disagree with relating it in the slightest to St Gerards or the Statler. shrug

Letting the Georgians move and use St Gerards instead of it sitting empty here would look to me like a generous, self-confident act. I have no idea if anyone will rehab and reuse the Statler. It would be nice if someone does that successfully, but if no one does, that's life. It won't a reflection on the city or its self esteem if it doesn't decide to spend a lot of public money on a building like the Statler.

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Travelrrr

March 1, 2010 1:18 PM

I still think there needs to be a 3rd option interjected in preservation discussions in Buffalo: safeguard for future use. Might not have a use today, but could in 5 years.

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