City December 16, 2009 12:30 PM

Plaza Design: The Need for Interpretation, Discussion

Plaza Design: The Need for Interpretation, Discussion
Yesterday, new bridge designs came out in the media, while a pdf for the truck plaza proposed for the Columbus Park neighborhood has quietly made its way online.  

More than anything, residents of the neighborhood that would "host" the truck plaza, worry that plans to demolish more than 80 homes in their neighborhood will be overshadowed by the public's zeal for a "Signature Bridge".  

Get the masses excited about the bridge end of the project, and maybe they'll fire up the bulldozers themselves, or at least label as obstructionists the people who want to stay in their homes versus hosting 40 acres of concrete truck plaza. 

In this configuration of the Peace Bridge truck plaza (below), Busti Stops at Vermont, the Wilkeson is gone, and the green areas are bumped back up to the Olmsted "vision," with the exception of the fact that a ramp on the west side of the plaza will obscure the view of the water.  Niagara Street is the westernmost street beyond Vermont, as Columbus Parkway is truncated along with Busti. Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Hampshire, going west, are ended at Niagara.  5 blocks, plus - gone.

new plaza.png

4 blocks.png
The Episcopal Church Home between Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Columbus and Busti (D to F, left), is gone.  As a side thought, the land, if not the building, would be quite a boon to the landlocked D'Youville College, along with surrounding homes that could house faculty, staff and off-campus students.  Imagine a campus with a waterfront view.

We're told the duty free in the rendering has a small footprint, but is three stories deep, as opposed to the parking ramp, which is three stories tall.

There are questions about all of this and more, so we contacted Public Bridge Authority General Manager Ron Rienas, hoping for specific answers.  He declined to talk, specifically citing this article on Buffalo Rising.

But now there is a rendering that begs questions, rather than an opportunity to make statements that are unverifiable.  As Rienas would have it, we're not listening to facts; as we see it, we can't get anyone to back up a lot of what is presented, particularly where it involves the Columbus Park Neighborhood and the PBA owned houses there.

Along with an admonition, Rienas wrote:  I am not satisfied with the status quo of the Peace Bridge plaza. I support getting bridge traffic out of Front Park, increasing the amount of parkland, improving traffic flow and thereby air quality, protecting and buffering the neighborhood from the plaza, facilitating the flow of traffic for WNY businesses and promoting tourism, investing millions in the neighborhood surrounding the Peace Bridge, extending and improving the Riverwalk, improving Niagara St. and Porter Ave, etc, etc. 

In light of yesterday's news and renewed chants of "Build the bridge," Rienas may smell a victory, and going interpersonal and rhetorical is a good way to avoid answering questions, but I mailed the following off to him anyway:  

I just want to know about the new plaza in regard to the ramp, the duty free's below-ground square footage, the Wilkeson's disappearance (shouldn't it be pending?), and of course, the concessions that were made for Front Park.  I also want to know how this will promote tourism, why those tourists need more plaza space, and if the buffers will be view blockers.  Also, if you're making more parking (and room for idling trucks), how will you improve air quality?  Will idling be regulated?

I also want to know the breakdown of who pays for the bridge and how much, now that those plans are floated out there.  Did I hear $750M US?

No answer.  Strategically, it makes more sense to satisfy an entity (Olmsted) with the restoration of parkland, rather than a small portion of the public such as the Columbus Park resident/truck plaza opponents.  Rienas always stresses the gains to Front Park as proof of the PBA goodwill.  But perhaps he doesn't understand the irony of rebuilding a park that will be further separated from what's left of the neighborhood by a truck plaza.

As for the plaza, there are questions about the functionality and the form.  Not that it's open to public discussion, but left to interpret the rendering on our own, the footprint left on the city seems like overkill.  With functionality in mind, and the neighborhood as a host, maybe it's time to shrink the tumor.





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The Buffalo and Fort Erie Public Bridge Authority and the NYS Department of Transportation have scheduled a series of six open houses in Buffalo and Fort Erie to update the public on proposals and design concepts for the construction of a new U.S. Depa... Read More

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Think 20 to 50 years ahead ... the best location for a new plaza is the gm plant site with the 190 shared onto the rail corridor, with the waterfront given back to the people.

This really shouldn't be about the Public Bridge Authority, Congressman-for-now Higgins or any other personality. This is about the next 100 years.

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I'm not positive about your suggested alternative location, but right on with the rest. Our leards (HIGGINS, SCHUMER) are extremely short-sighted and frustrating!

replied to Roy
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You mean the GM site that would force the bridge to cross the river at 6,000+ plus feet instead of the current Peace Bridge span of 2,000+ feet. Is this the same site that would need about 2.5 miles of freeway on the Canadian side to connect to the QEW instead of the direct access at the current site?

I mean..some of these comments are comical.


The shared crossing would have been the best option. This blog had a lot of chatter in blaming the Bush administration for saying no. However, once the Obama administration arrived at the same conclusion, all of the finger pointing went towards Higgins and Rienas.


replied to Roy
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The plaza doesn't need to be at the same spot as the bridge.

Truck traffic can be shunted off to a remote location for inspection from a bridgehead at the present site, the BlackRock site or nearer to Grand Island. It is done at other bridge crossings.

so...to quote a new commentator, "...don't get your panties in a bunch..." over this

replied to Really?
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I can see your point but consider that traffic flows South. What you are suggesting, either at the GM site or Blackrock is a serious back track for trucks. Almost 4 miles from the GM site and 1.5 miles for the Blackrock site. Now if there was land around La Salle Park...that could work.


The main reason I posted what I did was that most people on this blog are looking at this situation on a micro level. When if you want to have a realistic outlook, you need the macro level.

This is an international crossing for a region that has Millions of residents and is directly tied to Billions in revenue and hundreds of thousands of jobs. Yet all this blog wants to talk about are 80 houses and a couple hundred residents.

This solution is not ideal. The shared crossing is but that has been ruled out by two administrations. Unless you are playing SimCity...you have to work with what you have.

As for Elena whining about Rienas not speaking to Buffalo Rising, she needs to consider that:

1 - This is just a blog that is read by a very small fraction of the region with pretty much the same mindset.
2 - I think it has more to do with the Al Coppola interview that was uncomfortable at best and a drunken cross examination at worst last year.

If BRO wants to be taken seriously, outside of the wonderful content that WCP provides, I suggest they act like reporters, don't send angry activists for interviews and check facts before they hit the publish button.


replied to Roy
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Just a few things...


I dont think looking at this from a macro vs micro point of view has much of anything to do with reality. For the people in the neighborhood, the prospect of getting hosed on their largest investment as a result of this project is very real. Ditto for city administrators who will soon have to account for a big hole in the tax base from the soon to be de-valued neighborhood.

Many here have cited the "hundreds of thousands of jobs" dispersed through the region that are tied to international commerce but nobody has put forth a convincing argument that their growth and survival is dependent on this >billion public work.

I think looking @ micro issues such as the fate of a middle class, inner city neighborhood ought to be weighed against the questionable upside of PB expansion. If that isnt enough consider the macro issues like more efficiently using wnys existing crossings, continuing the fight for shared border management, or the staggering cost of costructing this silver bullet.

replied to Really?
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The reason many look at this at "the micro level" is because it is a personal issue for those that live in the affected communities. Many have deep roots in the neighborhoods and have invested much into their homes. Most people have a deep attachment to the place they live. A persons home is not just a shelter but a refuge and an embodiment of the persons life and values.

replied to Really?
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Great contrast of house vs home.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Moving the Thruway to the rail corridor would not only return the waterfront to our city but would open up prime acreage for developement and greatly increase the tax base.

replied to Roy
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New property development has led to tax base growth that has become a windfall in San Francisco where the Embarcadero Freeway was removed.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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"I support getting bridge traffic out of Front Park"

So they remove the road near Busti but it looks as though all they do is redirect it through the park on its western edge. If you come down Porter you make a left, into the park and follow it along to the plaza... not really different than today except that trucks \ cars will probably have to drive twice the distance to get tho their destination now.

"buffering the neighborhood from the plaza" that's because you are removing the neighborhood completely. You are still putting plaza functions right up to Niagara street and what is across the street from there.... a neighborhood.. just a new neighborhood to ruin.

It looks like this is a USDOT design... and that is the problem they have traffic engineers trying to PLAN for a city neighborhood. When they should have actual planners who understand more than vehicle counts per minutes figuring this out.

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Hom come everytime a projects comes out that is well recevied by the public, the consultants hired with taxpayer dollars can't get thier names plastered all over it enough (free marketing at taxpayer epense, very good deal I guess), like the myriad of consultants with thier names and logos on the H.H. Richardson land use plan, all NINE firms. But yet something like this has no name on it whatsoever? I doubt the PBA or other government entity created it. Just a thought after reviewing the H.H. Richardson plan and immediately being tcken aback by the amount of space on that map devoted to "naminmg names" because from a cartographic stanpoint, the H.H. land use plan lacks balance and scale since the corporate names (UB included) take up more collected space than map legend or title.

So who did this plan, come on. fess up.

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Clearly, Mr Rienas is not a Buffalonian. However, if he is, then he has sold the soul of the community. No wonder spotty and sparse, if any, improvements have been made to most of the properties in the planning area. Of course, many have created pockets of great neighborhoods here, but the pockets need to connect - and that can happen with, as Sean B put it, actual planners and not traffic engineers.

The question now is if the PBA truly has followed the NYS Open Meetings Law and has performed due diligence regarding their responsibilities as a public authority.

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they trumpet out the bridge designs everytime there is community opposition to the bridge, in this case the appointment by higgins of a probridge and proplaza and thus prodemolition representative

its blatant spin management and yet no one seems to reallize

whats next...I have no idea but this is far to much land to be removed from the street grid in a historic neighborhood for something that contributes absolutely nothing to Buffalo and could just as easily be in lewiston.

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ECB>"I also want to know the breakdown of who pays for the bridge and how much, now that those plans are floated out there. Did I hear $750M US?"

Almost a billion when you factor in inevitable overruns. And for what? A questionable promise of a few jobs and cretion of a new west side ghetto?

As far as tourism goes maybe we could use this pending catastrophy as a local "failed taxpayer financed silver bullet" monument. People could come from far and wide to see how politicians, sheeple, and a handful of profiteers triumphed over a community and common sence.

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What has made the most sense so far was the private company that wanted to build a truck only bridge over by Blackrock in an industrial area that could use some bulldozing and has very little residential impact.

Think about it. Why have trucks and cars on the same bridge

These Authorities are killing New York state!!!

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Actually Black Rock is more densely populated than the Peace Bridge neighborhood.

replied to buffjeff
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After some quick measurements from their posted proposed plan and comparing it to what exists with a new bridge but without a new plaza it is going to be (on average) 1,600 FT longer for every car \ truck leaving the US and 800FT longer drive entering the US.

Going to Canada from Niagara & Massachusetts is going to take an extra 4,500 feet. To get from Canada to Porter & Niagara it is going to be an extra 4,100FT. The only shorter routes are those coming from Canada to the 190 N. would be about 1,300 FT shorter.

To Canada:
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zRKvKI7qxsMOzd7lsyRbmg?feat=directlink

From Canada:
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/teo1FQRlTCPMHiQpnOcg6w?feat=directlink

I picked a common point on the bridge for both TO and FROM as well as major directions going to the City and the 190. The points for the 190 change based on where the on\off ramps meet the core thruway.

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Is this really what you do in your spare time?

replied to Sean Brodfuehrer
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I actually take issue with Sean's measurements. I got out there today and tape, I goy 4250 ft between N&M and Canada. Let get the facts right

replied to sho'nuff
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Is this really what you do in your spare time?

replied to Sean Brodfuehrer
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Word has it Olmsted is rolling in his grave again, although I'm not sure he ever stopped. He must be so dizzy by now.

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I don't like it! The bridge and plaza should be mixed use and built to the curb. They aren't bike friendly or walkable and they look too suburban. Blah!

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While I can see your points...a couple of things to counter.

1 - The Peace Bridge has been there longer than most residents and the possible expansion is not breaking news. I understand some feel they are getting the shaft...but get in line. In Buffalo, everyone gets the shaft from time to time.

2 - As for your point on "a big hole in the tax base from the soon to be de-valued neighborhood", I think you need to look at the value of the area. It can not go much lower if you average out the area.

In regards to the argument of why this expansion is needed, I am using logic. I do not have a need or desire to do more then that because it is not my job. I can see the frustration on the lack of information presented by those who are paid to do so...but it does not mean that information does not exist. When in doubt..logic wins in my book.

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The neighborhod in the immediate area is one of the nicest in town and pretty stable as you move east. If you ask me the city is in no position to scuttle any of their neighborhoods especialy ones that bring in a good return on taxes.

What of the outrageous cost of bridge and plaza construction which has been estimated by some at 700mil?

Do you think it would be better to increase capacity by increasing efficiancy at all of its crossings before taking on such a costly capital project?

Im all for commerce and tourism but I just think giving up a nice neighborhood and 700 mil is a lot to give up when there are less costly alternatives out there.

replied to Really?
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I would rather just see the 'Truck Plaza' put in CANADA instead of Buffalo. We have no room or desire to have it.

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Elena.....thanks for getting the plaza issue out there for discussion! And Really!!!....... my family did "settle" in this neighborhood before the bridge was built! Usually people who feel they are being "shafted" end up leaving our City and area.
Any concern for demolishing this neighborhood must include the issue of economic justice. Higgins, Schumer and Hoyt think they can bulldoze this community down because they are the poorest in their districts. Butting a new and expanded plaza to other blocks of a poor neighborhood will still impact the health of the people now living even closer to the diesel emissions. Poor people still have the right to have the same clean air as anyone else. Maybe our politicians don't think so!
And Really????? Do you REALLY think all of the alternatives were fully explored? The PBA wants the money........it is as simple as that! It has nothing to do with logic. It is all about power and greed.

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I'm confused. How much land will actually be given back to Front Park? From the new rendering it looks like Front Park will basically have the same space as it does today.

?

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reply to Buffalofalling..

Parsons International is the project manager for the PBA expansion plan. They are paid millions. NYSDOT is responsible for the plaza renderings/maps. They're a partnering agent in the project along with the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) who is the 'lead' agency.

Ron Rienas is a Canadian citizen and resides in the lovely historic communiy of Port Colborne where you need a city permit just to trim your bushes.

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Am I coo-coo for coco puffs, or was there a rendering WAY back in the day of the plaza being completely (or almost completely) underground? I may have imagined it . . .

Oh, look, there goes Santa and Elvis in Bigfoot’s UFO!

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This pdf design is not new at all, it's been online for over a year.
It's a bad design with an octopus tangle of asphalt. I'm not for the plaza expansion/change, but I feel very strongly that a good design will more effectively coordinate with the existing I190 expressway and possibly remove some of the ridiculously exaggerated on and off ramp extensions. Those were created for two reasons: first, as a result of the tolls that used to exist there and secondly for the delays that once existed on the peace bridge, but hopefully with the redesigned capacity will no longer be an issue. (Anyone elses BS alarm going off on that one?)

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Does anyone know if they ever explored the idea of decking under the 190 and shifting the site plan closer to the water, but not past the 190. They could create truck docks underneath the 190. It seems like with a bit better engineering they would be able to get the same foot print that they are looking for, without going beyond where the plaza currently stands.

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Elena, am I missing something about the newest plaza design? 1. What is the purpose of the 3-story above ground parking garage? Is this ONLY for Peace Bridge employees?
2. It seems as though the number of gates/booths in the newest plaza design only increases the number of booths for cars increases by 2-3 booths, and the number of booths for trucks by 2-3 booths? My count may be off due to the low quality of the PBA design. Does the PBA really think that this minimal increase will alleviate the traffic concerns?

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