Opinion: Build the Bridge and Then Another, Ditch the Plaza

THANK YOU!!! EXACTLY!

Please, leadership of Buffalo:do the right thing for once. Tearing down an architecturally-rich neighborhood (where people have resided for many, many years) is not the answer.

Find an alternative, take a long-term view....for once.

No! It makes too much sense!

The insane element is that we have to beg our "leaders" to do the right thing. Does anyone in Buffalo simply think about taking to the streets? overthrowing bad, corrupt government once and for all? seems that ALL good needs to come from the ground up....and that is who should be steering our direction.

this guy should run for mayor :)

Nice! Make the right call!

Oh, so what proposing is putting truck traffic and decreased environmental quality on residents of Grand Island because there is less people there, thereby minimizing the residential impacts and thus justifying the idea? From a website that continually rails for social justice, it makes little sense to push off unwanted land uses from Buffalo to some other adjacent area which although may have less people but environmentally it's not a more viable option.

The hypothetical route on the above map puts a crossing next to a school and through extensive state and federal wetlands. But who cares, that doesn't impact Buffalo.

I'm not for what the PBA does (or even its existance) but to casually minimize the signficiant impact of another crossing outside the city's borders is shortsighted, parochial and foregoes issues of social and environmental justice (as does the Peace Bridge but because the PBA does it doesn't mean its acceptable). And eye for an eye?

Also, what would this mean for improvements and added costs on the GI bridges, which are constantly under repair and notorious for accidents and backups given the narrowness of the bridge?

Opposition to the Grand Island site within Grand Island was very strong when the PBA was doing their design charrettes a few years ago. Ditto with Tonawanda. I agree we should build this industrial piece of infrastructure in a more industrial area. I think the island is a tough sell.

I think this is a great alternative. However, the PBA has their minds made up and they're not exactly soliciting new ideas. The other issue I can see is what the folks in Fort Erie think about a new plaza and commercial truck rd in their backyards. Not to mention the Grand Island residents. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. There is however one idea that everyone keeps forgetting. Leave everything alone. It works and there is no indication that Truck traffic is increasing anytime soon. It would also help if all the customs booths were actually open when traffic is busy. I think this is an incredible waste of money and it's dividing our region. The PBA has blinders on and would anyone really be upset if nothing happened in this instance?

Though I think perhaps the I-190 might be better re-routed somewhere away from the riverfront I think removing highway infrastructure altogether just goes further to isolate the City of Buffalo. There's value in high speed commuter and commerce routes. Tourists usually come in via highway infrastructure. Its what they can do here and how the region markets or doesnt market itself to people once they get off the highway thats truly important. Does Buffalo want truck traffic using Niagara, Delaware, etc. instead? The next complaint will be that City streets are being overloaded with traffic that once used the I-190.

I agree that perhaps a bridge crossing to the north would alleviate many of the issues that are being complained about now however why is it that when northern alternatives were thrown about 17 years ago they were dismissed? 17 years have gone by and now we want to start the process over again to address the truck issue elsewhere? Why is it that when the Ambassador Bridge group was at the table that idea failed? Lets wait another 17 years? I wonder how Grand Island people react to a border crossing? I wonder if that starts another fight? If things keep not happening as they are in Buffalo maybe the city population will have diminished down to 220,000 on its way to obscurity.

Not in a million years.

Sorry guys, while I whole heartily love and encourage a dialogue to find a solution that makes everyone happy I just don't understand how this makes any sense??? Instead of increasing capacity in one area that already has a bridge, you want to create the same problem for another neighborhood in addition to the one we have? Maybe most people may not be familiar with Grand Island but it is basically one large neighborhood filled with bike and walking paths, I can tell you now they'll never allow it. Also, financially it won't fly! The bridge authority wouldn't be able to justify the construction of two bridges since they would be basically competing against each other for tolls and then their is the Canadiens, they won't allow it considering they already spent millions in building up their side of the Peace Bridge as well as their residents who live in that area . In the end some one isn't going to be happy with what ever we get, but keep in mind the economical benefits of an increased capacity will have for the 2nd poorest city in the US.

Options like this were vetted years ago... the Nimby's on Grand Island and Tonawanda won the battle. This is a waste of time to talk about anymore.

If we are going to focus on old and dead ideas; we should focus on Shared Border more than moving everything out to Grand Island.

Good idea.

So let me see if I have this right.

The OP is suggesting truck traffic be routed around the city, over Grand Island and to Southern Ontario. Sounds nice if you are playing SimCity.

Just what effect has the OP estimated on the 190 corridor from the 90/190 interchange to DT Buffalo? The reason I ask is off that corridor are warehouses and offices for trucking. You know..those businesses and jobs that come with the trucking industry.

Essentially, the OP is suggesting that the trucking industry be removed from the city taxbase and scattered around the first ring suburbs. I wonder what that would do for the fiscal planning in Buffalo.

After this, where does the funding come from TODAY to build 2 new interchanges, 6 miles of thruway and 1 bridge. I would love to hear the plan for that.

I would also love to hear the sales pitch to the Canadian government on getting them to buy into half of the cost.

I was just watching "Back to School" on TV this weekend. The OP reminds me of the professor who is teaching his class on the cost of building a new company. Only to be "schooled" on the real cost by the character played by Rodney Dangerfield. Maybe in a classroom or SimCity game does this idea make sense but in the real world...this is nothing more than a neat idea that is unrealistic.

I can't speak to the neighborhood or the plans as I haven't lived in Buffalo for 10 years. I just would like to point people to similar scenarios that occurred here in Los Angeles in the 1940s in an area known as Chavez Ravine and Bunker Hill. Both of these instances left scars on this city which many believe have still not been healed. In addition the developments made in retrospect were not worth it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chávez_Ravine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker_Hill,_Los_Angeles,_California

Destroying one of the most stable and architecturally rich sections of the west-of-Richmond West Side would be a travesty. However, would it be worth spending an additional hundred million dollars or more to save a few city blocks by plowing under and paving over a good portion of Grand Island and Fort Erie for a new expressway, bridge, and all the facilities associated with an international border crossing? It's a LOT of money to spend for such a little benefit.

If the money is available to build such a bypass, it's there to move architecturally notable structures to a new site.

I have an idea... Why don't we take a poll of how many Grand Island residents care about what will happen when the peace bridge plaza goes in on the West Side. And conversely, lets take a poll of how many City of Buffalo residents care about what happens to Grand Island when a peace bridge plaza goes in there. I'm going to go ahead a give you the answer... The 4 people in Grand Island have absolutely no ground to stand on. Put the damn thing on Grand Island, it is a fallow wasteland of nothingness; a cultural void.

A shorter post:

Why build 1 bridge, when, for at least twice the price, we can build 2?

Because there is barely a need for a twinned peace bridge span, much less a brand new crossing.

The only idea worth pursuing is the one that doesn't require spending other people money- Shared Border Management. The Canadian already built a plaza for us, all we need to do is ask nicely if they would share. It's Canada, not Syria...we can work with them.

Building two new bridges as Ricchiazzi advocates, one next to the Peace Bridge and another one between Canada and Grand Island, sounds ridiculous.

If a new bridge for trucks at a WNY site other than the PB is to be built (far fetched as that may be, considering residential opposition in Blackrock, Tonawanda, and Grand Island), then there'd be no serious purpose for also building a new companion span next to the PB.

A good argument can be made for one or the other, or neither, but not both.

Nice fantasy. Why is anyone even wasting time trying to consider this alternative? You're talking about adding two new highway interchanges, miles of highway, a bridge that needs to be even longer than the proposed twin span, two new toll plazas, more land takings, more environmental studies, more environmental impact, new people to piss off and fight against the bridge.

It'll never happen. Why not focus your energies on figuring out how a plaza can work better in Buffalo and what can be done to improve the existing proposals.

As per the results of the weekly poll thus far the most popular answer is that truck traffic to the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge. Really? Ok so lets move the truck traffic away and bypass Buffalo altogether, lets close whatever trucking related industry we have in the Buffalo area because the Buffalo area is too good for that type of industry anyway and heck Buffalo has loads of other employment opportunities as it is that it can afford to promote the movement of commerce away from its borders. Oh, and the Buffalo area is growing in leaps and bounds and we have that nagging problem of an invasion of "come heres" experienced by so many other metro areas that grow in population.

Last I knew the population was in decline and a growing economy is a historic event at this point. So much for promoting border trade and benefiting from the proximity to the Canadian border. I guess Buffalo's loss will be Lewiston and the Falls' gain. Yeah, lets move the trucks outta Buffalo and Erie County too!

Interesting that a city built on industry and the movement of goods via water, rail, and truck now finds it detestable so much that it seeks to move it out of the County altogether.

The I190 South Grand Island bridge woudld need to be upgraded. You can safely assume that adds a third new bridge to this equation. It doesn't make sense. Build the companion span and the truck plaza. It is unfortunate that a neighborhood will be lost in the process but we are all familiar with the cliche. "If you're gonna make an omlette..."

Matthew,
The trucking industry exists because Buffalo is a major metropolitan area that intersects railroads for transhipments, ports, east-west thruway corridors and north-south thruway corridors.

Distribution in Buffalo is not going to leave
Warehouses in Buffalo are not going to leave
Import/Export/Customs are not going to leave

If the Lewiston Bridge has 4 hour waits then it needs a 2nd bridge more than the Peace Bridge does.

There is also talk of reactivating the Whirlpool Bridge.

Yes, Grand Island is ideal and I support it. However, the Canadians are against any new entry points. They want existing crossings expanded. However, that doesnt mean that the Whirlpool and Lewiston cannot be expanded for trucks.

The Niagara Expressway cannot be expanded, its really just a gloried parkway.

Adding another bridge is going to negatively effect both the surrounding neighborhood but the capacity of the Niagara Expressway

There arent alot of cities that want truck traffic going through their CENTER CITY and just about every city I know has a bypass route. Only in Buffalo are we so desperate to look busy do we take no value added activity and direct it through out center city.

Plus, opening up the Lewiston and Whirlpool Bridges for Trucks could open up NEW warehouse and distribution facilities at each location.

Negatively, there are no warehouse and distribution opportunities on the westside for about 20+ miles. Those warehouse and distribution locations dont open up until the eastside rail yards, south buffalo or tonawanda.

I agree with Matt and just dont think that people are truly thinking this through.

We need to look ahead and find a way to transport goods without making area residents sick. In the near future diesel trucks will be looked at just like any other antiquated means of transportation. Investing so much money to enable an outdated and inefficent way to move goods is shortsited. Ignoring or minimizing the serious health threat and associated costs is not just morally wrong but naive.

Being a former Grand Island resident I can tell you that if you are haeding south of the city it is a quicker route to take the 190 through the city. Truckers will not use the 290 to go to PA and Ohio.

Please, please, please do not promote the building of a private bridge anywhere. I did some research on the Detroit developer of the Ambassador Bridge, Matty Moroun when it was first proposed to land in Black Rock.

This guy owns trucking companies and controls an international crossing. Does anyone see a major conflict of interest here? He has destroyed Detroit neighborhoods and is known for shady business practices.

Be careful promoting anything this man has anything to do with.

Thanks for weighing in on Ambassador, you were an advocate for our community and did the right thing. I remember when Ambassador was blowing smoke and making grand promises of being a benevolent and good "corporate citizen". A little research and a trip to Detroit proved otherwise.

I appreciate the authors' effort here but folks; you have to realize we're dealing with one of the most corrupt bi-national organizations in America.

This group has no intentions of building a bridge. It's all about the plaza.

As you can already see with their arrogance; homes are going down whether we like it or not.

Shared Border Management was dead on arrival. The PBA had no interest in it - just ask Schumer. (Wonder why he is so quiet these days...hmmm).

It's all about the money. And if its not; with space at a premium on the west side, tell me why we need a HUGE truck plaza; comprising a parking ramp and a duty free shop the size of the proposed BASS PRO SHOP?

BS! Follow.the.money.

My email is not working to ask a question to BR. And this is totally unrelated to this article, but this story seems to be getting the most action right now.

http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/files/1_2_1/city_departments/Purchasing/RFP_Community_Partnership.pdf

BURA put out a Request for Proposals on December 18, with some pretty quickly approaching deadlines and wondered if there was any buzz within BR about any organizations like Homefront, or PUSH, etc trying to get in on this??

The proposal includes alot of requests for things that one would think the city should've been doing on their own all along.

What is the remaining lifespan for the International Railroad Bridge?

This is one of the most low-tech and least costly international crossings ever, and during its service-able life should be used to alleviate bottlenecks elsewhere.

Why not load trucks onto the train cars in Fort Erie, and cross them at the IRR to a remote, secure, off-waterfront location for customs processing? This plaza can easily be housed in the vicinity of the GM plant and feed the truck traffic safely and environmentally sanely onto the 290 or 190.

Just think of the diesel emissions that would be reduced from some of our most vulnerable and valuable areas. A no-build option for the bridges and a build option for the plaza(s) with management plans has never really been examined from a Lake Ontario to Erie / Niagara Regional point-of-view.

Perhaps an overarching new or different Authority should take this on, one that incorporates the international crossings and intermodes of transportation. An International Intermodal Trade Transportation Authority to plan and and coordinate the bridges and their operation.

Where are the studies indicating a new plaza will lead to more jobs? Am I missing something?

As for a need for a new bridge or plaza, its hard for me to swallow given that the Whirlpool bridge has been closed for years. Looks like decrease in bridge traffic to me. I'd rather see the 300 million dollars used as tax credits to attract business. Alabama did it to get a Nissan Auto plant, why can't we?

This entire thread is one inane fantasy. I think someone hit the nail on the head with the Ricchiazzi's idea was compared to SimCity, that is spot on! I am really glad that Ricchiazzi is not the Mayor of Buffalo, for he is showing his ignorance and naivety in so many areas. Yes, hypothetically all that he proposes could come true if money, time, and resources were infinite and if everyone saw things the same way he does. This only exists in a fantasy world, not in the politically charged and economically strapped world that we live in today. I have a feeling that if we followed this plan, we would be crying about the logistics and international trade industries that are growing in the suburbs and not in the City. This would be a what-if complaint like we have about UB not building in the city. Not building UB in Buffalo sounded good at the time, and now with 20/20 hindsight, we see the error of our ways. I have a feeling that we will be doing the same with the bridge crossings. Two or three years ago there was a Buffalo News article on the revenue lost by Buffalo due to the increase in bridge traffic in Niagara Falls. This article referenced the economic impact of the Niagara Outlet Mall, the growth of the Niagara Airport, and the growth of Niagara Falls, Ontario. All of these examples were cited as missed opportunities for Buffalo. It is too easy for Canadian shoppers to by-pass Buffalo all together in their trips to the states for shopping. It is too easy for companies to locate outside of Buffalo, especially if we make it more difficult for them to get into the city (take down the skyway, close the 33 and remove the Niagara Thruway).

It sounds to me like some people want Buffalo to be a nice quiet, healthy, peaceful, and safe place like Amherst is. We have to remember that Buffalo is a city, not a town. Buffalo is an urban center, well it should be an urban center. If some people have their way, Erie County will be a collection of successful suburbs without a central urban hub.