Real Estate November 25, 2009 5:40 PM

Big Plans for AM&A's

Big Plans for AM&A’s

Downtown has a lot to be thankful for this holiday.  Topping that list is Rocco Termini.   The busy developer has completed six residential developments downtown, has one project underway, and is working on plans to redevelop two significant buildings, the Lafayette Hotel and AM&A's Department Store.  Next Tuesday, the Buffalo Planning Board will be reviewing the design for the $70 million restoration of the department store at Main and Eagle streets into a mixed-use complex.

Plans call for underground parking, a first floor food court, second and third and fourth floor office space, 117 hotel rooms on the Eagle Street side of the building, 28 market-rate senior independent living apartments, and 52 upscale apartments on the top five floors.  Carmina Wood Morris is the project architect.

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Termini, partnering with the Hamister Group on the hotel project, expects to announce the hotel operator next week.  The Buffalo News reports that the Hamister Group will relocate its HQs from Williamsville to the building.

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Due to the use of historic preservation tax credits, the exterior and windows will be restored but few exterior alterations are planned.  Historic storefronts along Washington Street, destroyed during a previous remodeling, will be recreated.  A pocket park is planned between the complex and M&T Plaza to the south. 

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Although the building has been vacant since 1995, not everyone is on board with the proposal.  Several large downtown property owners aren't pleased with Termini's request to obtain financing from the State's Upstate Regional Blueprint Fund.  They say a taxpayer subsidy would give Termini an unfair advantage over other downtown properties (more here and here). 

Termini is currently converting the former AM&A's warehouses on Washington Street into a mix of 48 loft apartments and ground floor commercial space.  He will also working on plans to convert the Lafayette Hotel into 115 apartments and 15,000 sq.ft. of commercial space.  Carmina Wood Morris is the architect on those projects as well.

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There is the ability to add additional floors...another 2-3 of those penthouse type apartments would go nice

though would be nice if they re-opened the street...if only for pickup and drop off...I bet they will fully reopen the street when this section of Main Street gets reopened to traffic....but as I said...they could re-open the street now for pickup and drop off and temp parking...that would help alot.

I reallize probably on a tight budget but would be nice if the large sized windows facing Main were also on the (what is it eagle) and washington side facades.

Oh and just a little touch...dont know how it might upset the preservationists but since these lovely big windows on the historic facades on eagle street are so beautiful...and echo what can be seen in many other cities...a nice touch would be a wrought iron railing with a small balcony, perhaps on one set of windows...on one floor for each of the buildings....just to add a touch...

But bringing back the AM&As (Main and Washington) and the Warehouses and the Lafayette should make this section of Main Street one of the best sections!

(Though I still think...Chippewa bars (or as I like to refer to it as the thong and vomit district tee hee) are going to eventually relocate to a different section of the city, particularly if and when the Casino ever gets built...leaving Chippewa alittle more mature performing arts and restaurant district.)

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One last thought...the redevelopment of AM&As, the AM&As warehouses and the Lafayette border on what I refer to as the Ellicott, Clinton, Michigan, Swan campus boundaries of Erie Community College.

Termini's redevelopment and future ECC downtown campus expansion again seem to highlight that the Bus Station MUST GO!

ECC really needs to put forward a plan for the 12 city block campus with parking, academic space, housing, library and bookstores!

(and the place it should go is the Central Terminal as soon as the Central Terminal can be connected to downtown).

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I agree to the poin that Eagle Street should really be RE-Opened, why this city allowed ugly buildings to be built over the street is beyond me, but that tower can so be rebuilt on the actual LOT with a walk way to the station. BTW, what ever happend to that fabulous redevelopment plan the NFTA annouced about 2 or 3 years ago that mentioned how they would update that station and bring in a bookstore, cafe, and restaurants as well as better signage outside?????? It's pathetic that smaller size cities such as Syracuse have a much better Bus Terminal than the second largest city in New York, so sad. And we have a tiny amtrak station that many can't find or know even exists. It would be great to have updates to both or a combined center as it WAS Originally suppost be part of the new Canal District almost a decade ago. Luv how these great ideas and announcements just die off and everyone seems to forget about them.

replied to Christine
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Great news. But don't close off any streets for "pocket" parks.

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How about some ground floor retail space included with the food court? Lots of possibilities here. Would've liked to see a much more exciting facade, but with the use of historic tax credits, I suppose that this is only way.

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We really need the storefronts and food court because the storefronts and food court across the street is at peak capacity. /sarcasm

What makes us think that retail and restaurants are going to thrive here when they have routinely failed in just about every storefront within five blocks?

replied to Buffalonian4life
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Will the recreated "storefronts" become storefronts again???

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If someone wants to rent them & the stores attract enough business, sure.

replied to Buffalonian4life
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Please open Eagle Street up.

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great plans, the 3rd and 4th floor retail..tough call, location, location, location..otherwise, about time!

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I wonder how the 3rd poorest large city in the USA can keep building high end apartments and condos and still find people wealthy enough to buy or rent them?

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Funny how no one asks that question about the 1000s of new suburban houses built every year

replied to golfczar
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Perhaps "hundreds" - certainly not "Thousands" of new houses around here.

replied to STEEL
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Cut Steel some slack. He hasn't actually visited the suburbs in years. So his impression is based on newspaper articles and books.

replied to Verdan
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Actually my impressions are based on research. According to the US census The Buffalo Metro area has issued 16,319 single family residential building permits in the last 8 years. Additionally construction permits have been issued for another 5,127 units in multi family buildings. The average cost of the new single family house has risen from $147,000 in 2000 to $219,000 today.

It is safe to say that only a small number of these has been inside Buffalo.

replied to sho'nuff
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STEEL has it here; "newspaper articles and books" will typically be much better sources on this issue than any individual's personal impressions after having "actually visited the suburbs."

And I will say this once again: the frequent claim (explicit or implied) that some BRO contributors live outside the metro area is a classic red herring. A contributor's home address is completely irrelevant to the quality of that contributor's ideas and arguments. So please, let's retire this old line.

replied to STEEL
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So it is ok to make assumptions and generalizations based on what newspaper articles and books? I guess what I have been reading about living in Buffalo must be true then, because the statistics and newspaper reports support it.

BTW, didn't you say the other day that there was more residential development in the city than in the suburbs? I thought I read that in the "Must Read" story.

replied to STEEL
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correct I did say that. That was my impression but my "impression" was wrong so I did some research Then I researched it to see what the facts are.

replied to sho'nuff
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agreed, just pan around good earth and page through the history of aerials... you can literally watch thousands of houses being built between their time periods... sick.

replied to STEEL
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Ask the droves of people lining up to rent them.

replied to golfczar
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I wonder where they come from.

replied to Armchair MBA
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Many come from the burbs.

replied to whatever
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Many are 20 or 30 something, usually single or young couples, usually white. Most will leave the city when they have children. Some are retirees or empty nesters, again usually white, and usually out to make a statement that they aren't afraid of the city. Most of the older loft renters have property to "escape" to.

This type of residence is transient and does little to provide long term stability and growth in the area. Look at the Elk Terminal and Oak Street lofts as examples.

replied to Armchair MBA
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actually these types of development bring a lot of stability to the area. Those two examples you mention are very isolated but yet feed into the larger downtown community. Since residential developments started going in downtown there have been numerous new stores and services to cater to them. These will only get more numerous as more developments happen.

Also once the tax credit stipulations are over in 5 to 10 years it wouldn't be that crazy to imagine some of these developments going condo.

I was just walking past the Oak St Apartments last night around 1am. Having lights on in the windows, people coming and going into the building and the simple fact that there are more people around make whole area feel safe.

replied to sho'nuff
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Yup. Thats a pretty good description of the tennents of these types of places. Every apartment building is transient and in Downtowns case there are more folks moving in than moving out. That is why there has been continuous construction of these places since the first one opened.

replied to sho'nuff
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I doubt nearly as many suburbanites move downtown as people who choose DT instead of living in city residential neighborhoods.

replied to Armchair MBA
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Doubt it all you want.

When I lived there many of my neighbors were retirees trading the house for apartment living. Many of the others were 20something professional types that would have likely lived in an upscale suburban complex like spindrift over a 3bdrm flat.

There were a few, like myself, who would have lived somewhere else in the city had these places not been built but we were in the minority. Judging by the surging sale prices and rents in places like EV and Allentown over the past 10 years, Id say downtown housing has enhanced the appeal of certain city property and not taken customers away.

replied to whatever
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I'd support this project even more if it were affordable housing or apartments. Downtown could use more people living there to thrive, and if the retail were something downtown would need.

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Buffalo is filled to overflowing with affordable housing.

replied to Jaybird
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True. Affordable housing in areas that are undesirable to the 20 or 30 something single white men and women who this development is being built for. They don't want a house off Jefferson because that is too urban for the new urbanists.

replied to STEEL
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It's being built and marketed opening... anyone could live there if they chose.

replied to sho'nuff
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What is it with you and segregating people? Can you leave color out of your posts? Labeling people black/white is what creates the initial bridge between races. How about saying "human" instead of white or black? It seems you hate the white man.

I registered here just to tell you that.

Happy Thanksgiving.

replied to sho'nuff
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The "initial bridge" between races is caused by years of blatant racism and segregation. It is compounded and prolonged through the passive racism and de facto segregation that we have today. Let's count the number of families from the east side who are moving to these loft apartments. Let's count the number of section 8 rentals in all the publicly subsidized loft developments that are making Rocco Termini and Carl Paladino millionaires. Let's talk about racism and races instead of hoping that if we ignore it then it will go away.

replied to BuffJD
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Let's all live off the government!! Basically what you're saying is that because there is a large population of african-americans in the east side/section 8 housing that developers should work with the government to get them into their new builds instead of people who don't live off government subsidies? Makes sense.

replied to sho'nuff
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While I may agree with many of your comments you also need to realize that many of the racist types have long moved out of the city and those who remained or are choosing to move back are not the same type of people who left in the 1960's. Lingering feelings about race certainly does have an impact on our lives and decisions but you are directing your anger in the wrong direction, and it works both ways.

Either way, anything that brings people and businesses to the city is positive because the spin offs from that will help everyone. New businesses will create jobs. Jobs in the city are much more accessible to those who need them the most. More people on the streets will create a safer environment. More tax money for the city means better and more reliable services for all.

replied to sho'nuff
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Oh give me a break!

African Americans have just as much of a chance to go to college as us whites. Hell, nowadays they have a better chance going for free! Go to college, make good money then buy upscale loft apartments. Ta Da!

No more blame game, no more "holding us back" arguments. The only thing holding the black man back IS the black man himself.

Low-income housing = a better chance for what? Neglect! What does neglect turn into? Ghettos!

Now, can you see why Termini is building upscale housing?

replied to sho'nuff
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In your first post you said: "What is it with you and segregating people? Can you leave color out of your posts? Labeling people black/white is what creates the initial bridge between races. How about saying "human" instead of white or black? It seems you hate the white man"


Now you come back with a post that is all about "blacks" and how they have advantages that "whites" don't have. Sounds a bit hypocritical and very angry to me.

Here's the thing. A white person has advantages from the time they are born that other races will never experience. It is their birthright, if you will. As a white person, you may experience some discrimination in your life, but as a black person you experience it every day. As a society we have come a long way from blatant segregation and open racism to more acceptance of diversity. We still have a long way to go in terms of equality. We have a long way to go in terms of discrimination. Your post smells of discrimination. Your post smells of racism. Your post stinks!

replied to BuffJD
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Seems everything you write lately has a racist overtone to it. I won't call you a racist but you sure are using a broad brush to paint a large segment of the population in a negative tone based on the color of their skin. I am thinking that most if not all African Americans don't want to live on Jefferson either. Certainly anyone with means is not going to move there no matter the color of their skin.

replied to sho'nuff
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Many Blacks don't want to live on/around Jefferson, that is true - which is why they're moving to the West Side and the Whites are moving out. Also Kenmore, for that matter - I know of one single block where 4 families moved within a year (to Niagara County, all of them) to get away from what they saw as "a bad element" moving in.

replied to STEEL
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Quite correct, about the lack of affordable housing near Downtown. Before they were both wiped-out as "BLIGHT!", 2 big neighborhoods were part of 'downtown' - to the East along Division, and to the NorthWest from City Hall. Both were the 'vibrant, dense, walkable, multi-use' areas which Planners would love to recreate today. The Fruit Belt remnant is now threatened by the new "Medical Corridor" ghetto and the proposed "U.B." ghetto. Single-use = deadly boring and ultimate death, but some people still don't know that.

replied to Jaybird
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I'm not buying the idea of keeping the over pass above Main Street, a first floor food court since we already have a food court across the street (I'd rather see a restaurant, cafe and RETAIL CLOTHING!!!) and I don't agree with a pocket either, look at the crappy one on Mohawk Street, all they do on this block is attract the pan handlers and bother EVERYONE!!, Since and when they decide to re-open Main Street, it would be nice to see Eagle Street Re-Opened too. For now, why not put a cafe/restaurant in that corner with out door tables (fenced off of course) that would be better than another park that will only become a hang out for the homeless. Other than that, I LUV everything else about this project.

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Looking good except for the pocket park. Why would you want a pocket park which connects to a huge existing open plaza. Seems a bit redundant.

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The preliminary plan is to use Eagle Street as the hotel drop-off area and to put the entrance to the underground parking ramp there, if the right-of-way can be purchased from the city. Details on how the team plans to divide this giant building will be up in a new post.

replied to johnnywalker
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Is there someplace to see how he will address the interior of the buildings? Most of this place is well away from windows - I wonder how that problem will be solved.

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Any word on what kind of restaurants will be included in this food court. Will it be fast food (junk) or will it include sit down restaurants, cafe's?. I'd like to see a sushi restaurant on Main Street. Tired of the same old fast food (subs, hot dogs, bagels), we need variety for a change.

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Thats a wonderful idea to turn the AM&As basement into private parking..that will help market the building a great deal.

And Im glad to read confirmation that Eagle will be re-opened to cars....perhaps we can hope for a Main Street Crossing in the future.

Oh and I missed it but boy does it make a difference with the awnings removed from the building! It really makes the retail pop out...but maybe...instead of the cloth awnings they could add something thats more fitting like glass awnings that jut out horizontally over the sidewalk, allow light while sheltering from rain but with brown metal to match the brown windows.

Lastly...dont see the need for the sky bridge either.

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Glass awnings are so cool, I luv that idea. I wish we had more of those downtown.

replied to Christine
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The skybridge or honkytube will be great for hotel guests who want to head over to the mall. I think we need one to make a UBesque honkytube system that connects visitors to the Convention Center and ECC. It would be like a giant hamster run.

replied to Christine
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"Honkytube"?

Your racist, bigoted comments are getting REAL tiring.

Try something CONSTRUCTIVE...and maybe some will take you more seriously...

replied to sho'nuff
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Y'all think I'm here to be taken seriously? Do you think I care what you think about me or my thoughts? You take yourself far too seriously, that is why you come off like a {deleted} when you right.

replied to JohnMarko
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Actually, "Honkeytube" is a well-known nickname for overhead walkways.

replied to JohnMarko
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What Mall? You mean that mostly vacant building with a few restaurants and about 2 or 3 junk stores that's inside? Hardly a mall these days till they re-design it and market it national retailers.

replied to sho'nuff
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I can see you like a good sense of humor....

So why not be creative with those skywalks...put them under a vacuum like the tubes at your local bank drive-up...and as fast as you can say willywonka they will be sucked from AM&As to Main Place Mall.

Dont worry I doubt Termini will put in any fountains of chocolate fountains as part of the plan.

replied to sho'nuff
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Honkeytube.. clever. I guess that word was made up implying that mostly whites drive cars? Well what's the slang word for a metro bus?

replied to sho'nuff
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BUFFJD - Please tell us what you call the metro buses. Do you refer to them as the N.... Freight Train Agency? Maybe the N.....s fleein' to Amherst... please enlighten us on what you call the buses. I've heard many, but it sounds like you may have a few new racist comments to add to the list.

Here is a good definition of Honkeytube:

Private, enclosed, climate-controlled, elevated walkway that connects two or more buildings. So named for the tendency of white office workers to use them and avoid contact with the street below, where people of color congregate.

replied to BuffJD
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Take this Google view of Tonawanda/Amherst.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.001634,-78.793602&spn=0.123784,0.351562&z=12

Consider that most of these homes are $70k - $250K. Most homebuyers these days average downpayments of 6% - 18%. So you have THOUSANDS of middle-income to high-income households with around $15K equity leveraging $60 - $200K mortgages.

We think of Buffalo as being "poor," but the truth is there's MILLIONS of real and leveraged dollars in property all around Buffalo, and most of the THOUSANDS of households in this map could probably afford to live downtown instead. If you could convince even 1 out of every 100 households to sell their home and buy a $150K condo in this building, there's your critical mass. There's demand and support for a nice

**This is NOT an attack on the suburbs**

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Got cut off

. . . There's demand and support for a nice retail store on the 3rd/4th fls. It would be taking people with an expectation for their housing and giving them the same quality, amenities, and parking requirements, in a more interesting environment.

HOWEVER Buffalo schools and neighborhoods don't offer the same quality of life. How do we solve this problem?

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It's not just schools and quality of life. Many people in Tonawanda and Amherst prefer having more space, quiet, driveways, garages, nearby bigbox stores, less crime, etc. It's opposite of the way many city people prefer more urban density and don't mind having less space, more noise, more crime.

Quality of life is ok in some parts of the city, and some city schools have good reputations. Yet as you point out, many people still choose to live in the burbs.

That's why it's more likely residential units built downtown will attract mostly from residential parts of the city.

replied to clockhill
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Not true. Do a search on the MLS to check sale prices of houses in EV, Allentown, N Buff and now Richmond and see how values have gone way up. Same is true for rents. If hundreds of downtown apartments draw from other city residential neighborhoods, dont you think sale prices and rents in these neighborhoods would go down?

Ill give you a couple of high profile examples: When I lived there, Lawyer Malloy, Lee Evans, JP Lossman, Al Kotalik lived there as well. Do you think they chose downtown over a city neighborhood, or Orchard Park or Clarence?

replied to whatever
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pitbull>"JP Lossman, Al Kotalik lived there as well"

I said "units built downtown will attract mostly from residential parts of the city". You do know what "mostly" means, don't you? Very upscale units like those which can attract millionaire pro athletes are different than most.

pitbull>"Do a search on the MLS to check sale prices of houses EV, Allentown, N Buff and now Richmond"

That doesn't prove your point at all.

For one thing, there's no way to know what prices would be otherwise - maybe even higher, or maybe the footprint of streets with good sales prices would have expanded more.

Also, it's still a small number of new DT units so far. Maybe it will stay that way, but if it grows a lot while city population keeps falling then obviously DT would shift some residents from other parts of the city.

And small pockets of Buffalo, the kind BR usually focuses on, can continue to have good demand and prices even while most neighborhoods across the city decline. There can be a ripple effect.

For example, say 10 residents leave North Buff for new units downtown. The NB landlords need tenants so they advertise. Then 10 others move from say Riverside to NB where the new DT residents used to live. Then the Riverside units befome for rent and 10 others move from Grant St to Riverside. Boom, 10 more long term vacant units on Grant even though North Buff house prices haven't changed on MLS. Simplified example but that's the concept.

replied to Armchair MBA
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Whatever>"That doesn't prove your point at all.

For one thing, there's no way to know what prices would be otherwise - maybe even higher, or maybe the footprint of streets with good sales prices would have expanded more"

Its a pretty odd coincidence that prices in these city neighborhoods have gone up in value around the same time people started moving back downtown. I have often thought lofts have acted as showcase properties that have bolstered the value of city neighborhoods by attracting people who may have not considered city living in the past. Similar to how a Camaro attracts people to Chevy dealers to buy Cobalts and Impalas.

That is just a hunch though. I dont have much data to connect the two other than sale price data on the MLS, apartment listings, and a general idea of what it used to cost to live in certain city neighborhoods back in the late 1990s.

replied to whatever
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Whatever>"For example, say 10 residents leave North Buff for new units downtown. The NB landlords need tenants so they advertise. Then 10 others move from say Riverside to NB where the new DT residents used to live. Then the Riverside units befome for rent and 10 others move from Grant St to Riverside. Boom, 10 more long term vacant units on Grant even though North Buff house prices haven't changed on MLS"

Sounds logical but I dont think that cycle is realistic in this case.

You mentioned North Buffalo so lets start there.
When I bought my place there, the bank had an appraisal done which, among other things, looked at average rents in the neighborhood. The average listed rent for an aprox 1000sqft 3bdm 1 bath flat in NB is $650/month + util. as of this past summer. (kirchmeyer+associates inc)

Now look at listings in the central business district. http://www.buffaloplace.com/apartments
This list includes some older developments but Id like to focus on the complexes built from 01 to date that have recieved the rehab tax credits you dont like.
The only places that $650 a month will get you is the IS Lofts or the Holling Place which have their rents artificially lowered as a condition of the federal grants recieved to do the project.

The rest of the market rate units range from about $800 to a little under $2000. They are not listed on the Buffalo Place list but I believe the newer units at the foot of Lakefront Blvd go for 2500/month and up. Do you honestly think many renters paying 650 a month are going to ante up an extra 400/month to live downtown? Some will but I think the majority of DT renters come from a different market.

Now look at a quick search of rentals in Williamsville:

http://www.apartmentspotlight.com/index.php?p=10&username=&session=*@

These rents are more comparable with some of the newer developments downtown. I think someone considering living in the Webb Building or whatever the AM&As units will be called, is going to consider that compared with a place like Windsong or Renaissance Place not a flat in North Buffalo.

Now the credits+grants given to rehab some of these properties are a public expense but I think it is money well spent. It beautifies the street, brings people downtown which leads to other business development, and saves the public the cost of tearing down a structure that would otherwise be vacant. (I think AM&As was guestamated @ 10 mill to demolish in 04.) Unlike similar developments in places like Windsong, these developments are built on existing infrastructure relieving the public of the burden associated with development on vacant rural-suburban land.

replied to whatever
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Has the retail space been presented to major retailers yet such as H&M, Zara, Le Chateau?

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onestarmartin>"3rd and 4th floor retail..tough call, location, location, location"
clockhill>"demand and support for a nice retail store on the 3rd/4th fls"


I'd guess the article's mention of "third and fourth floor commercial space" means office tenants, not retail up there.

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Your right,that makes more sense, shoulda thought of that one myself. Retail will be a tough sell, if the much touted "Jenny" shop folded in less than a year, it will be awhile before anyone else tries clothing Downtown I would think.

replied to whatever
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Now Now Now, be creative....

Maybe its to soon for retail to be opened and fill the entire first floor...BUT NO ONE SAYS THOSE WINDOWS CANNOT BE RENTED OUT AS DISPLAY WINDOWS FOR EXISTING RETAIL ELSEWHERE.

A good 50% mix of actual windows and display windows would make the building street and retail friendly and attract future retail.

It would act like a marker...an expanding business...where did you hear about us...I saw your display at AM&As..."oh, we are getting alot of leads and sales from that display window, perhaps we should open a store"

just a thought....but my guess is if the public library expands because of UB and ECC and ecc expands its campus, then this will be a very strong retail location.

replied to onestarmartin
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FYI, the former Jenny Shop is now the new Lu Modern Classic Clothing Store- Downtown Store. Just opened on Nov. 19th. Check it out. Also in the same building is Marcel Chaybon Men's Suits and Tailering.

replied to onestarmartin
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Lot's of vacant office space right across the street too. We need a major change downtown before this pays off. If we get that major change, then this development will pay off greatly. If not, then it is still better than what was there before.

replied to whatever
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If it's soooo hard to fill office space downtown, then WHY is is so easy for Rocco to fill spaces before they are even finished yet? Look at the AM&A's Warehouse project. That entire first floor will be rented out by a Collection Agency- Done!, Now the AM&A's Department Store, already has Horizon signed to take over office space- Done! And did'nt someone say, we only have 10% vacancy downtown? If this is true, then we really don't have a problem at all, especially in this troubled economy. Maby NEW open floor office space is all we need more of in order to lure more company's here. Rocco has proven that already. Main Place Management and Palidino need to take note and do what works, not try and discourage others for knowing how to take care of business.

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It isn't easy for anyone to rent out space, but it is easy for a developer to get a friend to say his/her company will move in when completed. This soft-commitment is required for the developer to secure funding from the banks. The collection agency may move in to the building due to breaks on rent or other incentives like building the space to suit. That move will leave a hole in another building that may remain vacant for a long time. It is a zero sum game.

replied to Lego1981
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As far as Palladino and a few other building owners complaining about Rocco getting an unfair advantage by applying for Upstate Blueprint funds, let's keep a few thoughts in mind. First, the city sold Carl the Bergers Building for his Bellasaro project for a dollar. Secondly, the city was going to award Norstar the contract to develop condos in the Waterfront Village on the very land where Carl is now constructing his latest townhouses and the Pasqualue hi-rise for a higher purchasing price loer than Norstar's and had no empire state tax credits reqest. But because Carl and Mayor Tony were such great buddies, Carl was allowed to submit his proposal for the development of these parcels past the final submission date for the RFP's and was awarded the project for less money and the with city's support to obtain the empire zone tax credits he subseuently acquired for the project. Third, Carl's bid on the parcel of land at 50 Court St, where he wants to buld an office building,was awarded to him for a lower bid than what Patrick Houtang of the Main Place Mall had offered. That's why the 50 Court St project is on hold because of a lawsuit that Houtang initated over why the city accepted Carl's lower bid rather than Houstang's higher bid.So,if Carl wants to complain about subsidies for Rocco's AM&A under the guise ofcreating an unlevel playing field for developers, he should look no further than his own face in the mirror.Rather than complain about subsidies, Carl and the others should submit their own proposals for AM&A's and explain what kinds of subsidies they need to do the project.

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So the people buying and renting these high end apartments and condos are wealthy folks from the 'burbs. That begs my next question: Why leave a nice home with a big backyard, 2 car gagage, safe neighborhood within a quality school district, etc., etc.....and move to downtown Buffalo?

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Because not everyone wants to spend thier free time mowing and cleaning up a yard, shoveling the snow away from their front door, sidewalks, and driveway, need the extra rooms in a house, don't have kids, and find Downtown to be where they want to be. Just steps a grocery store (Washinton Market, Downtown Food Mart, Holly Farms, etc.), Just steps to a movie theater(Market Arcade), Just steps to cafe's (Chow Chocolat, Spot, Coffee Culture, Dunkin', Tim Hortons, ect.), Just steps to the Metro Bus and Rail Lines (who needs a car if you live downtown, especially if you work there too?)

replied to golfczar
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Different strokes for different folks, I guess. But the charm of being "steps" away from anything doesn't sell it to me. I'm 10 minutes via Route 5 to downtown Buffalo but rarely go there. I'm also 10 minutes from 5 supermarkets, a major mall, Walmart Super Center, 2 movie complexes, 2 golf courses, several parks, dozens of restaurants and well, I could go on and on. Sure it's by car, but that's how I travel.

replied to Lego1981
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Because many of these people are no longer putting kids through school, so the deplorable Buffalo School District isn't an obstacle for them. Many of these people don't live in Buffalo during the winter, so they don't have to worry about how effective the city is at removing snow from the streets. Many of these people do not want to maintain a property and pay utilities for houses that they are only in a couple months out of the year. To them, a loft downtown, where they aren't paying school taxes and separate utilities, is a great convenience. I'd love to move to a trendy rental when I retire, when the kids are out of the house, and I have some place warm to go to in the winter.

replied to golfczar
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Let me know where I can get a trendy downtown loft for only a couple months a year and I'll be right behind you. If you winter in Florida, you're still paying rent and utilities for your trendy apt in Buffalo. If I was 25 yrs old and single I would love to rent a nice place downtown if I could afford it. Married with a family...never! Old and retired, like I am now, I would be scared to death. There are plenty of condo and patio homes in the 'burbs if I decide to downsize.

replied to sho'nuff
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Who said anything about renting for only a few months a year? $15,000 a year for a trendy loft apartment in the city is cheaper than any patio home in the burbs. Sorry to hear that you are afraid of the big bad city.

replied to golfczar
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$15K a year will get you a luxury 2 or 3 bedroom apt w/garage and swimming pool in the 'burbs. Not ashamed to admit I would be scared to live downtown. I would feel a lot safer walking from my garage to my apt in Hamburg than I would from a parking ramp to my loft in downtown Buffalo. And there is no way I would allow my wife 60 year old wife to walk back and forth to her car at night downtown.

replied to sho'nuff
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As a young professional in the area let me say no one can doubt the results Rocco Termini has accomplished. Sure, the funding has other developers fuming. Too bad. At least he's turning liabilities into assets for our downtown.

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one of the best things about this building is the warm yellow stone facade. but the rendering looks beige, like someone wants to "update" it with that awful fake stucco stuff. can anyone comment?

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The BUFFALO PLANNING BOARD- is this a joke? Is this the same board that is planning the New Peace Bridge? or the one that built the Express Way- 190- on the Water Front of the NIAGARA River? Is it the BUFFALO PLANNING BOARD that supported B C DAVIS (The cheat who walks free)? Does this Planning Board work with The New Buffalo Statler Redevelopment board? Is this the BUFFALO PLANNING BOARD who took the MAIN ST out of Main Street, Buffalo NY.
After seeing Buffalo get raped for the past 60+ years by so many greedy politicians or The BUFFALO PLANNING BOARDS-
What makes this one different then the others? Grab your ankles BUFFALO- here we go again! I hope it will be different but for some reason I have my concerns!

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