Condo Record Broken at Waterfront Place

Well, I would say that its definitely time to dust off those plans for the 2nd Waterfront Tower. However, I think future waterfront towers should be located between Niagara Street and the Niagara Expressway instead of between the water and the Niagara Expressway. Future towers could then stretch from downtown all the way to the Peace Bridge.

Any info on Gates Circle tower? Uniland said they were moving back the timetable and would focus on Avant for now (the GC website now only advertises jobs for the Avant Embassy Suites).

I heard there was a lot of water damage to the units from the huge rain storm we had several weeks ago. Anyone know any more about that?

But Christine who in the world would be buying the units in the second tower, this is Buffalo afterall. (sarcasm)

I still do not understand the thought process that went into the decision to put tiny tiny little bitty windows into those townhouses. That might have contributed more than a little to the slow sales on those properties.

Hello!? Waterfront? Glass-openness-views!?

In a recent interview Paladino was complaining about how the Avant building got tons of free govt money and how his comdos were now in a disadvantaged competition with those of Avant.

Perhaps Paladino could have gotten a little more bacon himself if he constructed something a bit more impressive. Avant is a mixed use building in the city center rehabilitated from a aging, vacant federal building. The Pasquale is a cheap looking new build located on prime waterfront land featuring 1980/90's architecture. The building's less than stunning façade is completely focused on the water, exposing its unsightly derrière to all of downtown.

I hope the new tower, if constructed, is more carefully planned.

Paladino's residents, some of the richest people in the city, will be receiving 10 year tax abatements... come on...

Will there be a Rite Aid or a Dollar Store on the ground level?

While penthouses are great, the real story is what's happening with units between $300k and $800k. That's where we might get enough demand for some serious high rise steel and glass. If the Pasquale sells out in this economic climate, and Avant does likewise, surely we can go higher. With the right ammenities downtown, why wouldn't Buffalo amass some of the same textures as Toronto?

These projects would not get built without the tax incentive. In fact the 3 other proposed townhouse/condo complexes still have not been built even with the tax benefit! Second, there is a tax, the houses immediately pay the taxes on the price of the undeveloped land, which is about $2000 per year (still more than most city residents pay.)
Lastly, a poster commeted on the size of the windows being "tiny," which is not accurate. The windows are apporoximately 4 feet high, the problem is they look small because of the amount of brick on the front of the building, likely due to the high ceilings. The builders should have broken up the facade with coining or other work to make the front more interesting.

hmmm, pasquale, still sounds like an old meat market on the west side.

Next time you wonder why your insurance (health, auto, property, etc.)cost so much look to the grand Pasquale for your answer. Your premiums are becoming unaffordable so that personal inury attourneys and physicians can live in the penthouse. Enjoy.

sony>"how would anyone know what the market is for these condos if they aren't built?"
There's no way to predict for sure how many of anything will be sold, how soon, and for how much. That's true with or without giving special targeted gifts to Paladino and other developers and a select few occupants of condos or lofts.

sony>"who would have been the first to build them without the incentives and tax breaks?"
We'll never know.

sony>"I would like to see ALL new builds in Buffalo get tax breaks"
How is that better than using the same cost of that to lower the tax rate for everyone in the city? Why shouldn't it be equitable to all city residents?

edmd>"These projects would not get built without the tax incentive"

Maybe yes, maybe no. Just because anyone says it wouldn't be built doesn't mean it wouldn't.

The it-won't-happen-otherwise argument is used by many recipients of Empire Zone gifts. There's a much bigger number of local businesses and residents who aren't in Empire Zones and have to pay their full share.

Even if this project of Paladino's wasn't built, the wealthy local surgeon and Mr. Barnes would still be in the local market for a $1M+ residence. Obviously they liked the idea of living near the water. Perhaps market demand from them and others might motivate a different developer to build near there. Or maybe instead they'd buy or build a $1M home near Lincoln Pkwy or Tillinghast.

Why should average taxpayers across the city have to make it a little cheaper for Barnes and Paladino? Why single out a select very small percent of rich people and give them very targeted gifts using public money? It doesn't add long term jobs or real growth.

edmd>"3 other proposed townhouse/condo complexes still have not been built even with the tax benefit"
If there's not enough market now for 3 more, that doesn't mean there wasn't enough market for one.

There's no good reason to give Steve Barnes a special property tax break or subsidy that extremely few other people around here get. I don't blame Barnes for taking it, but there's no logic to it being provided to him.

All city property onwers should pay the same rate - Pitbull in North Buff, Barnes on the waterfront, and Councilman Brian Davis on Hickory St (who also lives in an Empire Zone tax free new build house). As it stands now, among those three only Pitbull will be paying the full rate any time soon. Apparently he doesn't mind, but maybe some of his neighbors do.

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/637358.html

" ... Last year, Davis faced criticism when it was disclosed that he was paying no property taxes on his house on Hickory Street because it is located inside an Empire Zone. Houses in the zone can apply for a seven-year waiver on property taxes, which in this case, save Davis and his wife $2,800 a year.

Davis in 2004 voted to extend the life of the zone. Six months later, his fiancee bought a lot on Hickory from the city, then sold the vacant lot to Savarino Construction Services, which in turn constructed the house and then sold the house and lot back to her in August 2006 for $181,000. The Davises now reside in that house.

Davis has denied any conflict of interest. Savarino, who did not return telephone calls seeking an interview, is one of the city’s most active developers and a major contributor to Brown’s 2005 mayoral campaign. ... "

Great system you guys like so much. Btw, it's not too early for you guys to start your Xmas shopping for Paladino, Barnes, and Davis. The special tax breaks are nice, but a little impersonal. They'd probably welcome more gifts to thank them for being here.

Wouldn't it be better to do something with the Niagara Section of the thruway, uniting downtown with the waterfront instead of trying to work around it?

Wouldn't it be better to do something with the Niagara Section of the thruway, uniting downtown with the waterfront instead of trying to work around it?

sony - It's up to the doctor to choose where he wants to live, but he should pay the same property tax rate as others in the location he chooses. I don't see how that's such a radical concept.

pitbull - Haha nope, for consistency you should buy Xmas gifts for Barnes, Davis, and your buddy Carl.

blohard>"The tax incentive was available to you, as well every one else in buffalo who wanted to buy one of these units. There was no discriminating as to who was allowed the abatement."

blohard - It isn't a conspiracy, although there's some insider politics involved in the program. Have you ever seen a map of the Empire Zone boundaries? Don't you think they get adjusted to benefit some well-connected people? Some aspects of the Brian Davis deal also sound strange.

Anyhow, individuals aren't the main point. It's inherently corrupt because it involves politicians giving steep subsidies to a very small select few property owners instead of more equitable reductions to the whole set of property owners across the city.

While you're correct EZ's aren't limited to certain individuals, it's misleading for you to imply everyone could take advantage. It's probably under 1% of city property owners who are given quite a few years of not having to pay a city tax bill at all while the other 99% have to pay up in full or else they get their property seized and auctioned off.

All property owners in Buffalo can't possibly take advantage of it. For one thing, the EZ program would quickly run out of money if they all did, and for another thing they probably couldn't even all fit within the EZ boundaries!