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October 20, 2009 1:14 PM
Comments: 59
Canalside: Moving in the Right Direction
On September 17,
Empire State Development (ESD) approved the Draft Generic Environmental Impact
Statement (DGEIS) for the latest version of Canalside, produced by Erie Canal
Harbor Development Corporation (ECHDC). Any more acronyms? This
version of the DGEIS represents the Canalside plan which is required to
consider all reasonable questions, comments and recommendations made by the
public, during the February 2009 scoping session. Back then, many people
were upset with the previous version, released in December 2008. However it
appears that public comment may have made a significant contribution to the
improvement of the plan this time around.
Let's take a look
at a few elements of the plan that have greatly improved since the last
release, as well as some that could still be reasonably modified.
Improvements:
1. Connection to the Water - Of the major disappointments of the previous plan, the 12' raised section of the canal was probably the biggest, quite literally forming a barrier between the development on Canalside and the canal itself. In the recent DGEIS, that canal area has been lowered significantly, creating a much more permeable site by allowing continuous pedestrian movement along the canals. This allows the canals to feel more public and better integrates the canal spaces with the surrounding public streets.
Concentration of Buildings fronting water - With the canal elevated in the previous scheme, the waterways could not function as the thread linking each of the development parcels. In the revised scheme, not only is the water lowered to make the site more permeable, but a greater concentration of water based commercial activity occurs along the canals.
Restoration of Historic Street Layouts - The Dec. 2008 Canalside plan had a recreated street layout that strayed significantly from the historic grid of the site. The plan featured enormous turn radii, shaving away at the street corners, reducing the pedestrian friendliness of the site and limiting the overall impression of density. The new plan has reestablished the historic layout as the foundation for the cobblestone streets. The historic streets provide far greater urban design for the site, catering to those walking within the site rather than the automobiles traversing through.
4. Design Guidelines - As a means to ensure that the Canalside project is developed to a high standard of design, ECHDC has commissioned the development of guidelines that will mandate a set of characteristics that each piece of the site must possess. The guidelines regulate building use, mass, street frontage, acceptable parking and service locations, building materials, signage, lighting and green design. They encourage a diversity of architecture which should incorporate elements reflective of the history of the site while also possessing a modern design. A process has been outlined for the review and approval of each development project to ensure that it is in compliance with the standards of the site.
A Few Suggestions:
1. Incorporate the Erie Canal - As we're spending millions of dollars to recreate a historic canal system, the plan should incorporate at least a piece of what was the actual Erie Canal. The Erie Canal originally terminated at the intersection of the Commercial Slip and the Main & Hamburg Canal, right where the plan shows the canal turning right. Instead using interpretive signage to represent the canal, recreate a small portion of the original waterway as a means of representing the original layout of the canals.
3. Enhance Interpretive Elements - The Erie Canal Harbor is the most important historic site in the City of Buffalo. The original infrastructure and activities which took place upon it were the lifeblood of the Buffalo economy throughout its decades of prominence. To misrepresent the history of this location is unfortunate and contradicts efforts by many to cast a light on Buffalo's vibrant waterfront history.
The most inaccurate piece is likely the plan of a Waterwheel Fronting the Bass Pro Building along the Canal. Nowhere in this district, has there ever been a waterwheel. The Bass Pro building, itself, is representative of a mill building, rather than a grain elevator. These waterways were not fast flowing, where waterwheels and mills would be located to generate and house production. The "thematic" focus of development of Canalside should be on creating a quality neighborhood that respects its past.
4. Ensure that ALL Structures Follow Design Guidelines - In drafting the design guidelines mentioned in #4, above, has recognized that quality urban design is paramount to the success of the Canalside project. However, it must be ensured that all structures follow these guidelines, including those proposed by ECHDC. The graphic available at http://eriecanalharbor.com/pdf/CanalSide/DGEIS/B1b.pdf identifies the locations in which each parcel must have an active ground floor use, including the Bass Pro structure in the Aud block. However, in this graphic, the first two floors of the Bass Pro building above street level are parking. This parking will be masked by an atrium with aesthetic indoor features, however, there will be no access to the building or retail frontage at the canal level. Instead, it appears that the building has been designed with retail beginning on the 3rd floor of the building, connected to a bridge that leads only to the 3rd story open space on the opposite side of the canal. This atrium serves as only a passive use on the ground floor (canal level) of the building, contrary to the stipulations in the design guidelines that require an active ground floor use at this location. Instead, only the subterranean access to the "water tube" and the 3rd floor access to the bridge to open space are active on this façade.
In
all, the most recent plan for Canalside is a vast improvement from the previous
version. The site has become more
permeable, the smaller retail spaces have better connections to the water, the
street grid has returned to the original historic layout and the open space has
been given a better opportunity for vibrancy. However, as the public process for this project continues
tonight at the Albright Knox, there is still room for a better Canalside. Let's create one of America's next
great urban destinations allowing high quality urban design to come first and
ensuring that the major attractions follow suit.
Leave a comment
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October 20, 2009 2:04 PM
I know it's been said 100x before, but the most ridiculous thing about this project is recreating a historical space around the Skyway! What ever became of the US DOT Tiger Grant funds which the Buffalo Common Council unanimously approved to apply for? Where are the artist renders of the rusting loud bridge sitting in the middle of all this development?
October 20, 2009 2:23 PM
"I know it's been said 100x before, but the most ridiculous thing about this project is recreating a historical space around the Skyway! What ever became of the US DOT Tiger Grant funds which the Buffalo Common Council unanimously approved to apply for? Where are the artist renders of the rusting loud bridge sitting in the middle of all this development?"
The ECHDC really really REALLY needs to tap into Mr. Ran Webber's and his team vision of the Buffalo Skyway. Canal Side and Mr. Webber's vision would drastically change people's perception of Buffalo, and attract more than just local visitor's to the site. Imagine that!
www.ranwebber.com
October 20, 2009 2:43 PM
this is what they did to elevated train tracks in NYC. this seems like the best alternative if it isn't going to be torn down.
http://www.thehighline.org/
October 20, 2009 2:55 PM
Get serious , the highline is only 12 feet up, not 200 like the skyway.
October 20, 2009 3:04 PM
why would that stop it from being turned into green space? we see 'green' rooftops being installed all of the time? height doesn't seems to prevent plants from growing on those.
October 20, 2009 3:21 PM
No offense but that is by far the worst idea for the skyway. If it has to stay it may as well be used for cars. We have more than enough green space around the city. I hate to say it but the renderings with the skyway incorporated doesn't look that bad once all the density is built up. I say if there is no definate answer on tearing it down then embrace it and light it up. Make it a focal point of sorts. My only concern with this whole project is that I hope canal side isn't too gimmicky or over priced (in terms of retail / entertainment) where the average resident around here won't want to go. I hope its a functional mix of tourist attraction and ammenities to this area.
October 20, 2009 5:04 PM
The High Line grew out of the fact that it was already being used as a park by people since it was abandoned 30 years ago. The Skyway is very much in service and I don't see a lot of people strolling down it. If there were an alternative crossing, I'd say knock it down.
October 20, 2009 9:42 PM
The High Line was not being used as a park before it officially became one. I snuck up onto the structure in its dormant days and it was a dangerous activity. Rain poured through the holes in the tracks.
October 22, 2009 1:20 AM
So, when you "snuck up onto it" -along with so many others over the years, how were you using it? Like a railroad?
October 22, 2009 9:30 AM
No. Not many people managed to get up there anyway. You couldn't use it as a park. (I don't know where you got that information.) It was dangerous up there.
October 20, 2009 6:44 PM
Turn it into a suicide station for desperate Buffalonians to jump from.
October 20, 2009 3:19 PM
No one should be focusing on a reuse for the Skyway, you can't polish a turd.
October 20, 2009 4:07 PM
I stand corrected, this is the worst idea for the skyway.
October 20, 2009 3:07 PM
At least light up the Skyway like the Peace Bridge. It would look cool and blend in better with all the festive activities planned for Canalside.
October 20, 2009 3:09 PM
The Bass Pro buidling is actually supposed to be representative of the Spaulding Mercantile which was historically located at the exact intersection of the Erie, Main&Hamburg and Commercial Slip. Bass Pro is constructing their version of the Spaulding Mercantile on nearly the same exact site.
As far as the other stuff, I will leave the comments to others as I think the major near term issues are infrastructure and I think it will be quite a while with plenty of time for comments before the infill of office, residential and retail begin.
As I said before, this is more space dedicated to retail than exists in all of downtown currently so whatever does get built will likely have a significant office, hotel and parking component that allows retail to infill gradually as it can be supported.
As the area does build up, I would pay attention to the effects on the surrounding areas. There is likely to be increased growth in those areas before during and after...as this area's infrastructure gets built up.
October 20, 2009 3:15 PM
The planned Bass Pro building looks 100% NOTHING like the Spaulding Exchange building. It definitely does look like a mill with a waterwheel like this article says. There is no sign of an attempt to replicate features of Spaulding. Here's a picture of Spaulding, below...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1ZWUmsOG-KI/SQWYKfW9O8I/AAAAAAAAD3Q/Z6euC3p1GG0/s200/spaulding+exchange+WNY+Heritage+mag.gif
I agree with you that it should resemble Spaulding, since that is what was on this site. But it appears they have completely disregarded that idea. Look at the slanted rooflines and facade that they propose...
October 20, 2009 3:19 PM
compare the image of Spaulding in that link to the barn they show in their model here....
http://eriecanalharbor.com/pdf/CanalSide/Model-2.pdf
October 20, 2009 3:38 PM
Not sure that making the bass pro mimic the spaulding exchange is practical. Most important is that it is of the texture and richness of the historic district. Always room for contemporary interpretation... however distortion is always bad..ie mill building with water wheel.
October 20, 2009 3:14 PM
I like the comment about the Erie Canal - I think it's great they are restoring the streets to their original locations but i always thought it was strange they would not do the same for the canals and completly omit the Erie Canal. $50+ million was spent on the commercial slip to represent that waterway correctly only to be distorted so significantly on the other side the street... It would be nice if they overlayed a little more of the historic footprints on the Aud block and reflected history more accurately. It's not as if that would cost any more and it would be a logical expansion to the original commercial slip project..
October 20, 2009 3:52 PM
Call me Chicken Little, but when those drawings are shown, I can't help picturing a truck driver falling asleep & plunging over the Skyway right onto a crowd of people or through a store's roof.
October 20, 2009 4:07 PM
I've lived in Buffalo at various times for about 25 years, and I don't ever remember hearing about a truck or car flying off the Skyway. Has it ever happened?
And it's not like we don't have existing elevated highways right next to residential and retail spaces...
October 20, 2009 4:45 PM
True, cars haven't been flung over the side... however I believe this is the only elevated roadway in NYS with permanent signs indicating when the span is closed due to weather. Having worked at HSBC tower and walking the area, I have seen car parts such as hubcaps and chunks of concrete laying around (not to say I've actually seen one fly off the bridge). I certainly don't think a hubcab flying down from 200 feet is out of the question or snow/salt flying over the sides from plows. It's certainly happened before in other cities with less severe weather then ours:
http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/642/913659?cpt=8&title=enrtv&wpid=0
October 20, 2009 4:31 PM
i hope they incorporate "active ground floor use" all around. this is paramount to it's success as a walkable destination.
are the sidewalks going to be heated to mitigate snow & ice buildup? not historic perhaps, but safer, more pleasant, and probably cheaper in the long run...
if bass pro does in fact get on board, is their building being designed in a way that would allow any possible reuse? in the event they hit the road when the tax breaks expire?
October 20, 2009 4:47 PM
As cheesy as that waterwheel is, this is a SHOPPING destination, not a historical museum. The mills, granaries, and elevators of yore might excite local New Urbanists but if you're from out of town and want to hang out in a pleasing environment, the waterwheel will be a draw. The rest of it looks good so minor tweaks there. Please build this now before we fuss this thing to death.
October 20, 2009 4:52 PM
I am absolutely disgusted by you people who are never satisfied with any sort of development this city tries to build. I bet half of you are in your mid 40's. Get real people, its 2009, not the 1800's anymore. A new generation us taking the city over, so get used to it. If you don't like the project, or any other project being developed in the city, pack ur ****, and get the f2ck out of this city. Your the reason nothing ever gets done, your the reason the city is one of the poorest in the nation, and your the reason the young population leaves the area for other places who dont have people like you *****ing and complaining about everything. LEAVE, just go away. Rochester is 45 mins away. If you dont like Canal Side, if you dont like the Buffalo creek casino, then stay home, or move away. End of Story.
October 20, 2009 4:58 PM
I really hope this comment is a joke.
October 20, 2009 5:08 PM
no, def not a joke NYC, what goes on in buffalo, doesnt concern people in NYC. Re-direct urself to NYCrising.com
October 20, 2009 5:16 PM
get a clue dude.
NYC - New York Central!!!
Not that it should matter.
and you have the classic, you don't agree with me, get out of town attitude that has plagued buffalo for the past 50 years. it's not helpful, as alot of people clearly decided to get out of town. Great attitude.
October 20, 2009 5:26 PM
ur wrong "new york central", its your attitude, and 90% of people who leave comments on this site which has plagued Buffalo, not me "dude".
Im all for Canal Side and the Casino... I wouldnt call that a plague. People like you will hault any kind of construction for years and years. Nothing will get done and thats the real plague "dude"! Just go away, please. People left town bc of people like you, not bc of people want development in Buffalo.
October 20, 2009 5:42 PM
You may want to direct your anger at commenters over at the News' site- have you seen that negativity?!?! We're tame in these parts compared to the trash being thrown around over there. They're angry the sun came up today.
October 20, 2009 6:02 PM
LOL Apparently UB is teaching their students how to be trolls.
October 20, 2009 6:13 PM
Bitter, nasty trolls with poor writing skills. Way to go, higher education! haha
October 20, 2009 5:46 PM
our taxpayer funded project is asking the public for comments. The public comments, then you lash out and tell them to get out of town for commenting.
I hardly think these comments are what brought buffalo to its knees. I am all for Canalside as well so if ECHDC asks for my comments i am going to give my comments and if i post them here as well, I think you just have to deal with it.
October 20, 2009 5:53 PM
ok well maybe ill see you at the albright tonight NYC!
October 20, 2009 6:01 PM
Are you going to bring me a one way bus ticket to Rochester?
October 20, 2009 6:02 PM
heres my preface: this could be a bit campy - or it could be an opportunity to expand transportation options:
a heritage trolley
extensions are as numerous as the streets that radiate from downtown, making it a potential legitimate mass transit option.
October 20, 2009 7:15 PM
For my part, Im sorry for my error. It has been some time since I have seen a picture of the original Spaulding Mercantile. I remember reading about Bass Pro purposely chose the site of the Spaulding Mercantile and that they were going to design a historically themed period building but I thought that meant a reference to the the Spaulding Mercantile...and not some generic mill.
I for one think that an architectural reference to the original period building would be more appropriate than what they are doing. Perhaps they dont know?
October 20, 2009 7:19 PM
What's funny about UBStudent is he or she tries to sound like a voice of new thinking even though Canal Side has been created and pushed along the whole way by middle-aged establishment politicians like Brian Higgins, Byron Brown, George Pataki, Chris Collins, and people just like them.
New thinking - yeah right, sure UBStudent - what a joke!
October 20, 2009 8:04 PM
Well it is new thinking for Buffalo. We have lost what 50% of our population and 75 years of decay and demolition and urban renewal.
We have had zoning that filled in the canals, separated our residential, commercial and industrial then connected them by multi-lane expressways thru prime what was then prime real estate of the Humboldt Parkway and our Canal System...and changed our zoning specifically for car parking.
The Erie Canal Wharf District follows much of the old zoning. Its walkable, built to the sidewalk and mixed use/multi-purpose.
Its a downtown development that celebrates history, new urbanism which is really just pre-ww2 zoning, in some ways architecture and most definitely the pedestrian. As the article said...this is being build as a series of small neighborhoods lining canals. Its not quite Amsterdam but its certainly a signal for Buffalo's future and not just for the Canal Wharf but for Niagara Street, the Outer Harbor (Furhmann Boulevard), the Inner Harbor (Ganson), the first ward warehouse district, the downtown city center and even ECC & UB downtown campus's...which would then have a spin off effect on the downtown Library.
This is a big rethink with long term impacts effecting Main and Genessee Streets.
Further...a rethink of the DL&W could easily impact the Central Terminal, particularly if redeveloping the DL&W required relocation of the maintenance sheds.
There are lessons here that have the potential to rewrite the rules not just for how downtown redevelops but for how struggling first tier suburbs redefine themselves
October 20, 2009 11:27 PM
Christine>"Well it is new thinking for Buffalo."
Not really. Canal Side sounds like more silver bullet big over-promised projects instead of addressing so many basic needs across the city.
As ClintonsDitch wrote in the other thread, we've seen the old drawings of how the Main St pedestrian mall was "expected" by the politicians to be crowded with people walking - not different from these drawings of Canal Side being crowded.
The arena and ballpark downtown were expected to lead to major economic spin off just as they're telling us now will happen for Bass Pro. Subsidies for more hotels at Canal Side will be business as usual around here too.
Christine>"We have lost what 50% of our population and 75 years of decay and demolition and urban renewal."
True and irrelevant. Canal Side doesn't deal with any of the problems that decline left behind, nor can it change any of the root causes. It's a sideshow.
October 20, 2009 8:38 PM
While UBStudent maybe did not have the best 'tact' in making their opinion, some of the statements are valid. As a 28yr old who has lived in Buffalo all of my life, it can honestly be very tiring living in this city due to the crippling obstructionist views of many in this area. To cite a classic example, the Blue Water Bridge expansion in Port Huron, MI connecting Sarnia, Ontario. It was recognized in the early 90's that a 2nd bridge was required to handle the flow of traffic on the international crossing. Design, Public Comment, EIS and construction were completed in 8 years. We are now on year 14 since the original "Twin Span" design of the Peace Bridge was released. In 14 years we do not even have a EIS approved. There is a need for Public Comment phase, I realize this, but the endless litigation, lawsuits and protests are not conducive for any kind of growth in this area. I have visited many other re-vitalized cities in the country (i.e. Pittsburgh) and this is not an issue. These cities build new over old where prudent (not always without protest, i.e Pittsburgh CC) or integrate a mix of new with old (i.e. Southside Works) to create a hub of retail/residential/business. Buffalo for the past 40 years has consistently dropped the ball in this area. While it is slowly getting better, crippling buracracy and obstruction seem to stem the tide of development on a consistent basis. People want to save buildings for the sake of saving buildings it seems like here and thats ok, but you need to DO SOMETHING with them and that doesn't happen enough here as it does in other cities. If you can't do anything with them what is the historic value of looking at crap really??
In the 2 years I have been coming to this site, there are many differing views but the one common theme is that people (most of them anyway) are desperate for a better Buffalo. The Canal Side project is the biggest single investment the city of Buffalo has seen probably since the construction of HSBC Arena in 1995, that is not a bad thing. What is a bad thing, is investing this amount of proposed capital for retail/entertainment options and have people not be able to get there because they don't have a means of transportaion available to them (out of town, urbanites, no vehicle, inefficient Public Transportion, etc.). This in turn REQUIRES (I can't stress this strongly enough) the NFTA to do its diligence in 1) extending the Light Rail system to both the Airport and to UB North and 2) construct a High Speed rail line between Rochester-Buffalo-Toronto in order to make Buffalo the central 'nexus' to over 3 million people. Unfortunately, and I personally hate the idea, we are stuck with the Skyway for the forseable future, basically due to the lack of a better proposed option at the moment. Even with the Skyway looming overhead, I still believe Canalside with some 'tweaks' can be very successful, if the other entities involved (NFTA, chiefly) realize the benefit of investment in it.
October 20, 2009 9:43 PM
I understand the frustration but citing the Peace Bridge gets you no sympathy from me. Don't you think it would already have opened if the proposals brought forth by 'Il Douche' Ron Reinas and the PBA weren't terribly flawed? And thank god it's not happening while that idiotic truck plaza hangs over the process like the Sword of Damocles. As to the other issues, while Buffalo has that classic cynicism we've all come to know and love, the worst problem has been and continues to be Albany, which never fails to sandbag us every step of the way. if the state capital were Raleigh, I assure you things would be dramatically different.
October 20, 2009 10:05 PM
"Il Douche" Thats funny!
October 20, 2009 9:56 PM
Okay, we all want a better Buffalo, Agreed? UBStudent have some tact; everyone gets frustrated, but no need to lash out at others. If you feel that strongly about this issue go to the meeting and voice your opinion (In person, not anonymously). I have to agree with a good deal of what you said, but other people are entitled to their opinion. It it their city just as much as it is yours. I always happen to agree with a good deal of what rushkid2112 says. Not everything will be perfect, but their is no harm in trying. Lets work together to make it better, not tear each other apart.
October 20, 2009 10:33 PM
The Peace Bridge is exactly the wrong example to cite.
In case you hadnt noticed it there is a silent war going on for the last 40+ years from the grass roots population that has tried to get brownfields cleaned & redevelop, re-examine metro-government, keep taxes low, explore licensing charter schools by the Buffalo Public School District, redevelop historic and architecturally significant buildings, etc etc etc.
The other war comes from Albany and Albany authorities like the NYSDOT that found the canals intact but didnt want to rewater them saying they would explode, the Thruway Authority that refuses to give up its tolls within our metro area, our Power Authority that gives our power to downstate and keeps the money and of course our Bridge Authority that accepts no feedback on Front Park or the Preservation of one of our few Pre-Civil War and Canal Era neighborhoods...because they want a truck plaza.
If Buffalo was a someplace that actually executed change then our entire downtown would look like Niagara Falls, demolished and unrebuilt for urban renewal, the west village would have been demolished for the Westside expressway, the Larkin District and Central Terminal would have been demolished and the westside/blackrock would be a parking lot for US, Canadian and Mexican Truckers.
Yes, Buffalonians want change in the form of jobs and quality of life...but the change often proposed by albany, albany authorities, the political hacks that toe the albany party line rather than that of their voters and of course the real estate developers that care not for quality of life but free money...none of which add up to jobs or quality of life...so its ok to be frustrated by Buffalos slow change...but other cities do not have to deal with downstaters that control the albany legislature and governors office.
October 20, 2009 10:12 PM
OUTDOOR FIREPLACE FOR WINTER MONTHS.... ESP NEAR THE ICE RINK!!
October 20, 2009 10:13 PM
Did anybody go to the meeting?
October 20, 2009 10:49 PM
I did. But 60 speakers later, I'm sorry to say you're going to have to wait until the morning for it. Some very interesting points were brought up.
October 21, 2009 10:38 AM
Per the Buffalo News, most public comments were positive except for the tenants of the Marine Drive Apartments and Tim "Obstuctionist" Tielman. Yippee!!!
You might as well change the name right now from Canalside 2011 to Canalside NEVER.
October 21, 2009 11:29 AM
Yea KenS is right, most were positive, however, Marine Drive tenants now have an attorney who spoke last night with documents ready to file suit preventing the construction of the parking garage. One of the tenants of Marine Drive had a petition signed by 400 people saying they don't want the garage, meaning 600 did NOT sign it. Could it be because they want the parking garage?
Tim Tielman was there with his little group of people he brngs with him to every meeting cheering him on, also challenging ECHDC that the buildings are not historically accurate. He also said the proposed aquarium needs to be altered to prevent obstructed views of main street. This guy seems to show up at every meeting held by the ECHDC with some sort of complaint. If anyone is going to ruine construction of Canal Side, it's Tim Tielman. He had a copy of 2004's GEIS, which is irrelevant to the new one thats been drafted.
Personally, I would rather have more modern buildings that depict the historic structures that once stood at the site, this guy wants the buildings to be built as they were back in the early 1900's. The ECHDC has really taken the public's input from the last meeting and changed the model ALOT to make them happy. I have a bad feeling once Bass Pro hear's about the Marine Dr parking structure and Tim Tielman that they will back out. Buffals already has an abundance of historic structures, what we need now are more modern buildings to throw in to the mix.
I agree with KenS, this will not be done by Memorial Day 2011. We are lucky if this gets built before UB2020.
The only good part about last night was the high profile business men from the region encouraging ECHDC to get the shovels in the ground already. There was also an elderly man who said he wants to see the project completed before his lifetime. We need to get the younger generation at these meetings to put in their input. Most of the younger crowd left after the negative comments started rolling in.
Lastly, I overheard a man talking about an investor who is trying to get whoever owns the Marine Dr. towers to sell so they can be turned into waterfront condos, Avant style.
October 21, 2009 12:41 PM
"One of the tenants of Marine Drive had a petition signed by 400 people saying they don't want the garage, meaning 600 did NOT sign it. Could it be because they want the parking garage?"
Marine Dr has 616 apartments. The BMHA owns it and has no intention of selling.
Anyway, the designs for Under The Skyway are a cluttered mess. It's the 21st Century Seneca Mall, complete with big fireplace.
October 21, 2009 1:10 PM
I cant wait for those Marine Dr apartments to be turned into nice upscale condo's, with a nice covered parking garage and all.
October 21, 2009 2:02 PM
The city needs to sell the Marine Drive apartments to a developer and build some low cost housing for these tenants ANYWHERE but the waterfront.
This gravy train known as subsidized housing in a prime location about to be developed, needs to end.
October 21, 2009 3:16 PM
marine drive isnt subsidized - this gets old. most who live there are working low to moderate income or retired. there are wealthy peolle from the co-op days who pay a surcharge... people lived in downtown at marine drive, when it wasnt fashionable - now people treat them as if they are disposable .. on another note, shockingly, the Buffalo News was incorrect . I was told that at least 3 of the people who spoke against the ramp were not Marine drive residents .. they were independent thinkers, with brains. one fellow discussed amsterdam, london, etc and how most destinations would never consider plopping a parking ramp on waterfront property ..
i dont blame marine drive residents not wanting to lost their lot .
I also imagine that because someone didnt sign the petition, doesnt mean they are for the parking ramp. People at Marine Drive actually work and have busy lives ... i know that shocks most of you
October 21, 2009 6:48 PM
Shocking Gloria? There are 1000 residents who live in Marine Drive regardless of there being 616 apartments. These petitions were posted in the hallways on every floor of every tower, so people who "work and have busy lives" could have signed them because im sure they saw them and im sure people went knocking door to door. Residents of Marine Drive do want the parking structure. Now thats shocking Gloria!
October 21, 2009 10:30 PM
Never mind Gloria, look at her past posts, she is the one who was telling people the waterfront is a horrible place to live and visit because of the wind and horrid elements, so dont b other coming down. See, she wont have to worry about all that horrible auto and noise pollution after all.
October 22, 2009 7:23 AM
UB student - the petitions were not posted anywhere .. at all .. at anytime .. where do you get your information??
NorPark - your impression of my comments couldnt be more inaccurate.. taking things out of context is an interesting way to try and make a point
October 22, 2009 8:44 AM
If you don't believe that they are subsidized, then I suggest you go to the city of Buffalo website. It certainly sounds like subsidized housing to me...
http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/Home/CityServices/Buffalo_Municipal_Housing_Authority/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
October 21, 2009 4:38 PM
The parking ramp should be built with 20 floors of glassy yum up above. The Marine Drive Apts can and should be sold once a strong market value emerges AFTER Canalside opens, and after more condos get built at the waterfront. The residents of Marine Drive, since they are such independent "working" people, clearly won't have any trouble finding housing wherever they choose.