NYS Autobahn: Why Not?

And this is going to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, How?

NYS Autobahn between the months of Nov - March, that's worth a chuckle.

Not many of the 20 Ferraris in WNY will want to cruise on over to Roch-Syr-NYC during those months.

Not a chance. It's high speed rail or bust

NEXT TOPIC, and please make it something worth talking about

Love to see all the drunk drivers on the NYS autobahn

Your "worries" are exactly why not to do that. I was originally going to site MPG as reason # 1 why not to do this until you mentioned snow which made me think of pot holes. Imagine hitting a pot hole at 120 mph!

We already have an interstate highway system that functions in much the same way as the autobahn system. Besides I would not feel safe driving those speeds with my fellow travelers (I actually have high speed driving training). People already do enough unsafe driving at 65 MPH ie cell phones, texting, and DWI.

If you did install that system it would need an enhanced "High Speed" drivers license with lots of training to get it. All cars travelling in special high speed lanes would need a special inspection certifying they are safe to do so. The added fees, fuel costs and tolls would price most people out. $3/gal gas is already too much for a lot of people travelling long distance. Not to mention high speed driving is way more stressful on ones heart and requires a very attentive driver.

Part of the idea of a high speed rail system is the safety is controlled. Use is available to more people and the speeds are WAY higher than vehicular travel. Have you ever driven the auto bahn or a high speed train. I have for both and high speed rail is awesome!

sorry, but this is a terrible idea. rail is still far more efficient than cars. 5 million individual cars are going burn far more fuel, emit far more emissions, and cause far more congestion than a few trains. even if you don't belive in global warming, the numbers just don't add up from an economic standpoint.

not to mention that driving a car in german culture is far different than driving a car in the united states. it's far more of a privilege than a right to drive in germany, it's harder and more costly to get your license, and easier to lose it. this helps create a culture of more responsible, careful drivers. nobody wants to spend $5k on a license and lose it for being an idiot!

last i knew you weren't even allowed to eat or drink while driving on the autobahn, because it distracts you from the matter at hand. and being a smaller country, people typically travel shorter distances between destinations in germany with less chance for boredom or fatigue to set in causing collisions.

sure, you could change the rules in the U.S. for this one stretch of proposed road, but that won't change the culture or the pre-established mindsets.

Nice try, but really, this is a bad plan.

Yeah I agree with n.dru. There is a completeyl different culture of driving in Germany. It isn't something taken for granted and people are very serious about being responsible for themselves and for others around them. The US... is the complete opposite. We let any fool drive around.

Look at the poor lady who just lost he leg on the relatively slow South Park ave because some d-bag decided he was selfish enough to do what he wanted... irregardless of society around him. Or the DWI guy that hit and killed the poor mother on Main last year... We are NOT a culture of responsibility... people think only about themselves, especially when behind the wheel.

I would love for the freedom to travel faster in cars. The autbahn was a great experience to travel on... but unfortunately without a major shift American's couldn't handle the kind of communal thinking it takes to not act selfishly behind the wheel. Look at how much we hem and haw over healthcare, another selfless, society oriented function, which so many people fear because of selfish reasons.

Will there be a bike lane?

This is one of the dumbest articles I've ever read on BRO. If you're taking the 90E to the 87 you have either never driven to NYC from Buffalo, or you are a moron. The drive to NYC only takes about 6 hours (averaging about 80-85 MPH)to get to one of the bridges or tunnels. And yes I know that's speeding, but that's generally the speed cars are going in real life.

The CO2 footprint of your proposed highway would be much larger than that of rail. Most vehicles capable of maintiaing 100mph will not be operating anywhere near optimal fuel efficiency at that speed. If you have data to prove otherwise please show. Rail can move more peope at a higher speed more safely. The average speed of rail from Buff to NYC will be grater than that on the highway even if speed were unlimited. You also failed to compare the weather in NYS to that on the German Autobahn. I am for 75mph limit on I90 in conjunction with high speed rail.

Here is a good video about the Autobahn

http://www.hulu.com/watch/92117/modern-marvels-the-autobahn

not to pile on but: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

first off, if a highway costs an average-ish cost of $7 million per lane mile - just adding two lanes (one in each direction) on the 448 miles of highway from Yonkers to the Falls will cost around $6.2 billion dollars. adding 4 lanes would be about $12.5 billion. never mind that the recurring maintenance costs of highways are generally much higher than rail. never mind that the land acquisition costs would be greater. and never mind that an $8 billion dollar investment in rail would bring a speed of HSR that no car could compete with outside of a closed course (only a dry lake bed @ that). actually, a far more modest investment in infrastructure work would get rail speeds up to a very respectable 110mph for the length of the route.

and on speed, the autobahns recommended speed limit is 80 mph - apart from slow orders and bridges/grade crossings/cities Amtrak already operates at 79 mph west of Albany and 110 along the Hudson. what is needed are increases in frequency, more capacity and better reliability, not a half baked 1950's boondoggle.

secondly, increasing speed increases the MPGs needed to maintain it. though one day there may be electric cars that could drive the length of the Thruway, there arent any now, and there could be some time before they become affordable. in the near term, investing billions in a plan that would further reduce vehicle MPG is irresponsible, even dangerous.

thirdly, where do all these cars go? does NYC get bulldozed for parking garages? all this would mean is more parking lots, more ancillary roads, more sprawl, less efficient use of resources. in short, a much much higher price tag than just the highway construction costs.

as far as safety goes: WTF! so the autobahn has less accidents, how many fatalities has the French HSR system had? NONE! thats right, and I dont mean last year, I MEAN EVER! 2 decades, not a single fatality while running at speed - you know, like 200 mph. in any country, safety records for rail far far far exceed any roadway.

cmon now.

BTW - the NYSHSR Task Force has the 8 billion is for the entire corridor length, not just the Bflo-Albany segment.

The first snowfall of the year is proof that there are too many drivers who either don't pay attention to the road or are simply not good at driving. The last thing I want is to encourage them to hit triple digit speeds. Wait, cancel that. The last thing I want is a new Meg Ryan movie. But idiots driving 100 mph is a close second.

I have a great idea for your next article. How bout lets abandon the space program and build a stairway to the moon.

There are HUGE land use issues at play here. Increasing speeds on roadways and making them wider will open up huge areas of farmland to development pressures. Something we as a nation cannot afford to do. Assume we want to still produce our own food. Maybe we would rather just import that from China and india too..

Rail reinforces central cities because their stations become a focal point for development. Sprawl is based on a 'time' basis. Anywhere in 30 minutes is good enough for my house mentality, spawned by highway. That's why the 33 didn't bring people into buffalo but opened up Cheektowaga and Lancaster to residential development.

Rail does the same thing but the outcome is different. North Buffalo was developed around light Rail Access. Property values increase with the proximity to rail access and often reinforces traditional commercial districts.

Interesting to imagine an actual Autobahn in NY state, but why even think about something that ALREADY WORKS. I know very few people who complain about the speed on the Thruway as it is. Most people drive 80 on it to begin with.

If you want to relate America vs. Europe to see what is worth investing in... it would go straight back to the High Speed Rail. America fell behind with trains, yet Europe is all over traveling by train. It's popular, reasonably priced, and a part of every day life. We need a reason to get back into it, and the High Speed Rail is it.

The New York State Thruway was originally designed to handle traffic of much higher speeds than the posted 65 MPH speed limit. That's also considering the vehicles of the late 1940s and early 1950s, which really weren't designed with nimble handling and safety in mind.

In many ways, the Thruway as it is today is superior to German autobahns; a wide median in most areas (carriageways on European motorways are divided only by a Jersey barrier, much like the Pennsylvania Turnpike), gentle meandering path (designed to prevent fatigue compared to the dead-straight Interstates of other states), longer slip lanes, and ramps with larger curve radii (although still quite small compared to other states). The only shortcoming is the quality of the pavement, and NYSDOT and the Thruway Authority has made vast improvement in that area in the past two decades; the state's bad roads of the 1970s are mostly a thing of the past.

Want autobahns in NYS? Double the tolls, replace the blacktop with Netherlands-quality pavement (considered the best in Europe; even better than the German autobahns and French autoroutes), and increase the speed limit to 80. The only problem: once you arrive in New York City, where are you going to park?

Why only 100 miles an hour?

If they raised the speed limit to 250 miles an hour, we could drive to NYC in 2 hours.

lets spend a small % of all that high speed money and fix the city streets that need fixing and make traveling at a snails pace of 30mph safe....the city as well as the infrastructure are crumbling away

Not many people are comfortable driving as fast as you propose. You eliminate a large portion of the driving population as beneficiaries of this proposal. Cars (and tires) are not designed to drive this fast. Surely the odometer reads over 100, but you couldn't sustain that speed with an economy car. New Yorkers are among the cheapest in the country: nobody is going to buy an Autobahn-class car.

Weather in NY would prohibit high speeds for most of the year. As it is, when the Thruway is iced over, you'll notice several d-bags driving a Dodge Stratus in the left hand lane driving 85MPH over the thinly iced road, all of them end up in the gutter and clock traffic for 45 minutes (avg cleanup time). These same folks would be even more dangerous should the speed limit climb higher.

Bad, bad, bad!!
Tim

Interesting idea, but I agree, driver training in Europe is much more rigorous than here. In addition, people in many European countries are re-tested on a regular schedule. Here, we let idiots and old fools drive. As much as I'm all for abolishing the speed limit on the Thruway, I think it's probably not a good idea to sink a lot of money into it. Plus, it would dry up a very lucrative revenue stream for NYS... what would all those fat, lazy Troopers do?

Everyone else summed it up, this idea is horrible. You can't compare US driving to that of other countries. Plus $8 billion dollars for basically nothing!? No wonder we will never have a public health care option, or decent schools in every town/city, or libraries that can stock their shelves and stay open more than a few hours a week!

The road exists already and it gets the job done-that kind of money on this project would be a huge waste and as tax payers people should be outraged if this is how they want to spend $8 billion!

I'm all in favor of high speed travel. Trains would be my first priority, but I'd love a NYS autobahn. Put a very stiff tax on carbon or oil and fund roads and rail with the revenue. Fuel efficiency will become more valued with higher priced fuel. Fast cars can still burn less gas than we use now (see European diesels, for example). We can raise speed even as we decrease our carbon footprint by making fuel too expensive to waste. Technology will follow. As for those who say Americans are such poor drivers that it would be foolhardy to enable them to drive faster: it6's a chicken and egg argument. Give drivers a reason to pay attention instead of pandering to the lowest common denominator of skill and the skill level will rise. Driving tests should be far more rigorous than they are now. All drivers should know how to recover from a skid and accomplish a high speed lane change safely. Driving is fun when cars are built to handle as opposed to coddle. Most of today's cars can handle 100mph far better than most cars from fifty years ago could handle 65. Reduce the nanny state. Let people drive as quickly as they feel comfortable.

The first modern highway in America was built in the early 30s in Pennsylvania on a stretch of abandoned railroad right of way. There wasn't any speed limit at first. The average speed that people drove then, back in the 30s? 70 mph! (After observing that this was the typical speed, the state then imposed that 70mph as the limit). That was 80 years ago. Cars have gotten soooo much better. Teach people how to drive. Really drive. Then let them.

The Autobahn better be built to the curb, mixed use, and parking in the rear or I'm suing.

An Autobahn? Seriously? Tell ya what, Albert Speer, we'll spend $8 billion on a progressive HSR project and you can spent $800 on speeding tickets. Bye.

Hmmm tough choice here, but Im going to go with the possible restoration of my/our beloved Central Terminal over this any day of the week, I will admit however that this line of thinking is outside of the box, which is something we need here in Buffalo for sure, but this just doesn't fit.

Europeans take much more extensive (and mandatory) driver education courses. They also pay $1000s of dollars for their licenses (to discourage driving and encourage the use of public transport).

Unless driver education is completely revamped and current drivers are required to take a new course or pass a rigorous test, this idea would never be successful.

Not to mention the fact that oil is a finite resource and it will run out sooner or later.

Hello all, I'm Greg Conley.

Lol I threw out the idea after taking my fair share of drives along the 90 and 87. I've cme to realiZe that people already illegally speed and fair pretty well so why not just increase the speed and build a safer environment for speeding and driving in general.

If the government owns a public corporation to run our tolls and thruway, you might as well have them benefit the citizens in someway. Since nysta is a public Corp, where's the incentive to do better?

A lot of people on here seem to think that the road conditions will be the same as they are now on the thruway with potholes and idiots who drive slowly in the left lane and cause agressive driving. However, believe it or not the Germans spend 900,000 dollars per mile on their autobahn, not 1.7
million as someone pointed out. That means the total cost would be around 353 million for 390 miles. Also logically speaking, ifyou build a highway like the autobahn, would you really let a pothole go? Idiots on the autobahn do exist but there are laws preventing manyof the habits drivers here do, hence ticketed and fined.

Ofcourse this crazy idea would cause a change in the driving culture of the states. People will drive more safely and more smartly. the southern Bavarian have similar weather as we do and They know when to slow down.if not there's an electronic sign to tell them to do so with a posted speed. Also, Laws make weaving in and out of traffic in Germany unneeded unlike here. Germans dislike our habits and perhaps they have a point. I mean, they get into less accidents than us on the autobahn per mile.

My main concern about high speed rail is who is it going to benefit. How often in comparison to now are buffalonians going to travel to NYC. What has the present rail system done to downstate? It's made cities into commuter towns. So is the highspeed rail just to continue that? Also,high speed rail will not improve the movement of goods unlike an autobahn. The high speed rail is for people to travel. How often are people from here going to go 5 hrs to see a Yankees game or a broadway show or choose to work in NYC and live here?

I love the idea of high speed rail but if you want to impress me, build better connections to Toronto where it would be more cost effective and beneficial to the region.

The autobahn gives people their freedom to choose

I spend a lot of time in Deutschland, driving on the Autobahn at high speeds (40 mpg with a BMW 1-series diesel rental car, averaging about 100 mph), and on the wonderfully fast and comfortable ICE trains between various cities, large and small. Frankly, there is no need to choose between these options. Having both is technically, economically and environmentally feasible in many parts of the US, including New York State. This is largely a matter of politics and Kultur (high fuel taxes and excellent driver training are part of the formula). And would tourists come for the thrill? No doubt. Lots of folks travel to Germany for just this reason; check out the German press for articles on this subject (the Darwin Martin House is a fine attraction, but a regional autobahn...).

Nevertheless, when it comes to the Autobahn, the case of Germany is rather unique, even in speed crazy Europe.
On the other hand, with trains, the US (and Canada) are the exception among their peer nations.

Greg Conley, UB Student: You are entitled to your opinion on your self-procaimed dead issue.

WTF? This is the worst article I have ever read on this website. 1) What a waste of money when gasoline will skyrocket in price and become scarce 2)Where the hell are you going to park your car in NYC? and 3) This would only encourage more sprawl and more negative climate change

U.B. appears to have low expectations in several subjects.