Ground Broken on Inner Harbor Streets

Two questions:
1) How much will this cost the taxpayers?

2) Will this increase the draw to the area?

This is exactly what they need to be doing. Public money should be going for infrastructure, not disney world developments. Now, if only they would boot Benderson and parcel of that land...

Does this guarantee that they won't be building the ridiculously huge turning radii that were proposed in the last EEK plan?

I am very optimistic about the development down there and its nice to see significant work happen down there BUT at this point in the development I still cant see where a new tax base comes from. Everything seems developed with public and non profit dollars. Has there been any private, tax paying developments in the area yet? With a population in decline, lack of demand, etc. can we assure that this development will actually lead to a growing tax base and not simply reshuffle the deck? What entertainment district may die if the inner harbor and cobblestone take off? Does Chippewa die? I hope regional entertainment venues like these will really start to turn around Buffalo's image and start attracting jobs and people following jobs to make everything new successful based on growing demand. With demand we will see less justification to demolish historic structures in mass numbers as well. Right now the market just doesnt support saving everything and most of the spaces are just money drains, not enough demand to fill them all up and make some money.

O'Brien, anytime the city can get infrastructure work for 5 cents on the dollar (federal pays 95cents) then thats a deal that you dont want to b**ch&moan.

Most successful cities (that have waterfront) have incorporated it into their city and it is usually one of the pricier areas of the city. Buffalo would be no exception.

There are 5 problems standing in the way of an outstanding waterfront.
1) the municipal housing (Marina Towers)
2) the lack of a lift bridge to the outer harbor
3) the Ojibwa townhomes...act as a barrier between LaSalle Park and the Wharf District
4) the Wharf District does not incorporate a reconstruction of the DL&W Passenger Concourse
(if it did then the potential would be for a waterfront Wharf District to stretch from the Peace Bridge to Michigan Street)
5) the Skyway access ramp creates dead space for multiple city blocks.

The future of downtown is to the east and in the First Ward because most of it is demolished leaving little need for historical preservation or heigh restrictions etc. No mayor, not even Brown, has any intention of emulating rochester and saving any eastside homes from demolition...the result is that the eastside will follow Niagara Falls in decades of unbuilt urban renewal until absorbed by downtown.

What you are seeing in the Wharf District is the extension of all the historic districts between Niagara and Main Street. Historical, Cultural and Architectural tourism are significant revenue sources for a city. Imagine downtown had the Sheas been demolished! The wharf district will expand upon what we already have and pave the way for additional pieces of Buffalo history like the war of 1812, the burning of buffalo, the battle of lake erie and the 1901 pan am.

Perhaps this will result in some food venues next time the NCAA rolls into town for competitions at the HSBC.

"He also said that rebuilding the Inner Harbor streets is the first step to building a bridge that will connect the Outer and Inner Harbors, "an important step in replacing the Skyway."

Does Higgins have any clue as to what ECHDC is planning? Obviously not because as they have stated the bridge proposed for the outer harbor connect project will not be part of a replacement strategy for the skyway. Just a local bridge.

I think he needs to have a sit down with ECHDC if he or anyone ever hopes that in our lifetime we'll see the skyway gone.

flyguy>"With a population in decline, lack of demand, etc. can we assure that this development will actually lead to a growing tax base and not simply reshuffle the deck?"

I'll predict the latter - that it simply reshuffles the deck a little instead of real growth, almost without exception. One example of a small amount of tax base growth will sales tax from out-of-town customers shopping at Bass Pro, if that's ever built. But that will be more than offset by public $$$ to construct the rent-subsidized store building.

flyguy>"Perhaps this will result in some food venues next time the NCAA rolls into town for competitions at the HSBC."

Sounds unlikely. NCAA tourney games here are about 6 months away - March 2010. Scheduled completion of these streets is 5 months after that - August 2010.

Even when these streets are built, I doubt there will be enough year-round customer flow to justify building new restaurants on them. Maybe I'll be wrong about that. We'll see. I just haven't heard pols or bureaucrats explain where a lot of new people will come from other than mostly just shifting around people and their money already here otherwise. Maybe a restaurant or two can survive within winter time walking distance of Bass Pro if that's ever built, but I don't know if that means they'd be on one of these new-old streets.

"Higgins noted that the restoration has brought a new tax base to downtown Buffalo."

Um, where?

Just a few general questions...

How long will it be before the "Canalside 2011" signs become "Canalside 2012", "Canalside 2013" or even worst "Canalside...Coming Soon" signs???

The commercial slip was finished early last summer(2008), yet it took 12-14 months to begin street reconstruction? Have these geniuses ever heard of multi-tasking?

Why does everything related to this project have to move at a snails pace?

Why does it seem like every other ECHDC board meeting gets cancelled?

When is Bass Pro signing on the dotted line?

How is that transfer of outer harbor property from the NFTA to the ECHDC going?

I'd love to see the timeline for the 2011 plan!!!

The Next BR poll! What comes first:

1. Bass Pro
2. A "new" Mayor
3. Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino
4. 33 Gates
5. A renovated Statler
6. The Apocalypse

I actually think things are moving quite swiftly over the last 12 months. A lot of planning (agonizing at times) has gone into this project and now there is real momentum. Private investment has to follow some sort of public investment of infrastructure. The amount of public dollars spent here is very typical to any start up project, anywhere. What private company is going to drop tons of money down in that area without some sort of plan and support by the city.
If the Benderson deal happens and it is done right with quality retail, restaurants and recreation, then people will go there. Weekenders from Ontario, Rochester, Syracuse, NW PA, and NE OH will drive and stay, locals will hang, arena goers will hit it, and it will probably help secure more events at the arena and Convention Center. Declining population has nothing to do with this project, just look at the airport and Galleria, growing and busier than ever. This is a regional draw like the Bills, Sabres, Galleria and airport, none of which struggles to get peoples attention and dollars.
This step might be critical in getting a bridge to outer harbor where the Fuhrman Parkway is going to be completed around the same time.
This is progress folks, we are just not use to seeing it so it is hard to recognize.

While the last remaining 19th Century brick buildings are crumbling to the east of Downtown, the fake-history clowns plan to build replicas around this new "district". It would be funny, if it weren't so stupid.

No one complains when the government builds new roads in the suburbs. Do the same in the city and the complainers come out of the woodwork.

Bass Pro already has a staff in town and has put the initial foundation work out to bid.

Mr GreenJeans, you are not really complaining that a multi million dollar retail and recreation developement is being built on the inner harbor are you? There are several examples of buildings being saved too, all over the city. With all our vacant land it seems newbulids are somewhat inevitable if we are to create attractions for visitors. Fanuel Hall, South Street Seaport, Horton Plaza in San Diego are all examples of very successful new construction in urban areas. If this happens it will be great, something to finally draw people to the waterfront. I am really not sure what some of you will ***** about if this happens, it's like the Red Sox winning the series... who are we if we are not the city with most f'd up waterfront and bumbling city planners. We'll lose our identity, people might say good things about us.

Using tax money to create a new & fake 'historical' site in a city which is quite literally falling apart? Yes, I'm complaining. We can't (or won't) maintain the current infrastructure; we certainly shouldn't be adding to it.

If this area is going to be a magnet for development and profit, sell the land and let private enterprise fund it. Fact is, investors aren't going to put cash at risk, because there's no chance Tim Tielman's toy town fantasy is going to generate anything but another location for downtown events and some sales at hog dog carts.

Mr. Greenjeans is correct.

Building these streets near where the canal used to end 100 years ago doesn't seem to me a smart use of money. If the new-old streets eventually attract any stores, offices, or residential, it likely will be some which would be otherwise be elsewhere in the city if the streets hadn't been built.

If it must be spent, I'd much prefer for stimulus road construction money to be used on some of Buffalo's existing streets that normal citizens and businesses use every day.

A lot of Delaware Ave south of W Ferry to Niagara Square needs work badly. Elmwood north of Amherst St to Kenmore is horrible. The Seneca St repair project is long delayed. Those are just 3 off the top of my head. Probably there's at least many dozens of city streets major and minor badly in need of work across all parts of Buffalo - N, S, E, and W. Why should all those be lower priority? Just because those aren't nice settings for bogus promises of renaissance?

The photos would be more pleasing if the projects were not in the background, just the looks of those building will always hold back any project/development with their uglyness alone. They look so "old" Buffalo. They really need to be pulled down and nice new buildings should go up to draw a young Prof tax base base [the one Higgins imagines is there already].

I am happy to see some planning and attention to detail (even if it is not 100% historically accurate). Why would any private developer consider this site if there's no infrastructure already in place? Who do you expect to pay for it? Someone has to and it may as well be the gov, unless you want that money to go to more war efforts or welfare? (I don't want to get on that topic). My point is that we are getting money to actually do something. Where is this private company that is going to sink millions into this area? Name one. Be happy it's moving forward. My only concern is the footprint of the skyway. I hope that planners are considering the idea that if it comes down there will be a bunch of random gaps left by the skyway to fill in and it might be counterproductive to build around the existing footprint.

I'm hoping that the bids that "came in under budget" stay under budget. I would hate to have to put funds into a project that runs over budget. It's always nice to have low bid on paper. I'm hoping that it will transfer to the project without causing problems that will have to be fixed a year later.

I'm sure the city planners have made sure that everything the area may need in the future will be in place before the roads cover them so they won't have to be dug up later. Or at least make sure access is available in the future.