City August 7, 2009 1:31 PM

Arson Takes a Landmark

Arson Takes a Landmark
Impromptu quiz:  What is most disturbing about last night's burning of the Woodlawn Row Houses?

A.)  The fact that they were one of the last few sets of row houses left to Buffalo?

B.)  The fact that people, like David Torke of fixbuffalo.com, have been begging for years for something to be done before this happened?

C.)  The fact the historic structure is owned by the city?

D.)  The fact that the row houses have been on a landmark list since the early 80s?

E.)  All of the above. (We have a whole alphabet of reasons this is a damn shame, but we'll quit here.)

This isn't a case of hindsight being 20/20.  Rather, it's a case of the writing being on the wall...for a long time.  Torke has practically acted as personal real estate agent for this structure, marketing it on Craigslist and through other avenues, sometimes attracting viable out-of-town investors, but to no avail.  

Torke was wrong about one thing; he looked at this as culminating in a demolition by neglect scenario, and starting in March of 2004, he posted monthly updates on the property.  In that time, news has gone from nothingness, to hopeful, to the present, worst-case scenario for the row houses.  

In a past post of a slideshow of the East Side that I posted on BR in May of 2007 (now unavailable), commenter Carol_Anne saidI think that we should tear down or burn down the vacant houses, especially the stupidrow houses on woodlawn ave that everyone whines about.  

The eeriest part of that comment?  The row houses weren't in the slideshow.   And now they're gone.  Will they serve as a cautionary tale in their absence?  Torke says we value our historic properties and is looking for others he might turn his attention to with better results in the wake of this loss.

For now, we'll look wait for word on the assessment of the damage, along with the next step for the row houses.  The arson investigation begins.  


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Can we take the city to housing court for failing to secure and maintain the properties that it owns?

David Torke pointed out that it will probably cost $100K to demolish the ruins. Maybe it would have been better to have spent that money earlier on securing, maintaining, and marketing this historic landmark.

Elena, sounds like you should pass on that comment from Carol_Anne to the BPD, as this certainly looks like an arson case. (Only half kidding.)

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Moral obligation says so.

replied to JSmith
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Elena,
Will your sense of moral obligation also force you to forward this little gem that commenter Andrew made in today's thread on UB's Downtown campus?

"as for north campus... who cares. blow it up."

will this comment be forwarded to the Police, or because it attacks BRO favorite target, UB North, will you let it slide?

I assume both commenters were speaking in hyperbole, but perhaps the view from your high horse will enable you to see it differently?

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I consider all suggestions like that to be idle talk. I wouldn't have given the comment about burning the row houses another thought if this hadn't happened. Now that it has, that comment becomes part of an investigation.

As for blowing up UB North, I have to ask what on earth you're talking about. You make an assumption that I would sanction it, or even talk of it?

I lived on that campus as a freshman, and though I did branch out into living in Buffalo while I finished my college career, I will say this - most of my classes were on Main Street, I practically lived in the old meter building, and I found my way around greater Buffalo because I liked it and wanted to explore it. It was the difference between my "college world" and my "world". UB students on the North Campus, which is there to stay, will find Buffalo if they are of a mind to.

So, on the even brighter side, I'm very happy about the move downtown and also that my beloved South Campus will be populated, left intact and made better over time (those metal annexes - we won't miss them). Want me to whine about something? I would love to see the old meter building made into something, anything, but it's out of UB's hands now.

And PS, since I lived at UB North, they have made many additions and improvements. For my own purposes, it's where I returned to take night courses in stained glass making some years back. I suggest all adults in the region take a look at the night courses there because they offer a lot. So see, we go there, and they come here, and it's all part of UB, and it's all good.

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Elena, isn't about time that BRO allow users to flag inappropriate comments and vote thumbs up/thumbs down votes on comments? (The Toronto Globe & Mail has a nice format for this.)

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Typical, censorship of comments that you don't agree with.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Displaying your ignorance again or just being a troll?

replied to dblplusgood
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Neither, just calling a spade a spade... you call for censoring comments that don't fall within what you deem to be acceptable. Who are you to judge?

replied to PaulBuffalo
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That's not how the TG&M website works, but keep having fun with your tirade.

replied to dblplusgood
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Then stick with the Toronto Globe site

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Well it has been a while since we had bad news around here... We are as economically stable as always (not growing, not really shrinking), the housing market never died, buildings are still being renovated in downtown and around the city...


I guess it was about time for a good ole fashioned icon demolition.


This isn't an 11th hour anything for those who are going to bring it up. These houses have been pushed and forced up the city political machine for years without anything.... How about Brown donate some of his 1 million dollar warchest to doing something positive for the city... like securing the next building from arson instead of pay to play politics and the crap he has been doing for years... while allowing this, the livery, the greystone, and many more to rot.

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can't bring the city to housing court, city can't cite itself. i blame the poorly run, unionized dept of inspections. heard one of the guys on the payroll there gives courtesy to ladies that'll give him a *#&@ *@%. he gets the big !! and they don't get cited for violations. that's a real baralli laugh. the other props you cited are owned by bad owners that need to be run up the flagpole, but then you got the bad inspectors that don't cite them.

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Let's take the City to court. Forget the Arson, time to hold local government accountable. This is nonsense.

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well this certainly caused a 'row'...

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How creepy was that Carol_Anne comment? Are there other people living near dilapidated classics that just won't see the possibilities of their renewal and would be fine with an arson fire? Half the battle is getting people to see opportunity where they often see hopelessness.

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Thank God this burned down. Get the dozers over and clear this mess now!

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It wasn't even an insurance-related act, either, because the city owned the property; there's no slumlord that would benefit. This is just wanton, malicious destruction. It's also an indicator of a lack of pride and respect for one's neighborhood, if it was an area resident that performed the deed.

I had a gut feeling this would happen someday. Sad.

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A majority of these arson cases aren't the owner, but rather troubled kids and other off balance pyros. It's very expensive to insure vacant buildings, so the majority aren't.

replied to Dan
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Many a time, it is folks in the neighborhood that torch properties. Remember the slum houses on West and Maryland?


What we need is proactive preservation. Not just a bunch of fah-fah's having ****tail parties and pat-on-the-back Board meetings tsk-tsking all the poor preservation properties languishing. What we need are these "people" listening to folks like David Torke. What we need is to take preservation out of the hands of the "club" and place it into the leadership of the people.


The Graystone still has no roof covering FIVE YEARS LATER! He's in Housing Court and only does something days before the next court date. He had a gag-order slammed on the Housing Court Liaison who spoke up for the folks in the neighborhood trying to bring his responsibility back to him.


Where are the "preservationists" during the court cases for these historic properties? Having Board meetings and joining together - kumbaya style - to look better to funders.


We don't need that type of action - we need proactive movement. The Preservation Coalition or whatever it's called nowadays needs to show up in court when these properties are on the docket BEFORE they end up in the city property roster.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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If the row houses are such a cherished historic treasure, then why have they been sitting vacant for so long? It is sad that they burned but this is only the latest in a long list of destruction to the row house. They have been stripped, vandalized, and left for dead. At some point we have to realize that the value of this property is nothing if there is no usefulness or interest to the market. I have a 1980s vintage Apple ][e that has sentimental value to me but it has little market value. I may think that it is worth something, and I may try to impose my emotional value on the market, but at the end of the day there is little interest in this computer because it is no longer feasible as a computer and would cost too much to bring it back to usefullness. The same is true for the row houses, their day has passed. Our emotional interest is there, but we are lacking a viable market for this property.

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I have an IBM PC Jr! I still play Zork I, Zork II, and Zork III! It was over one thousand dollars when I bought it but is now virtually worthless.

replied to dblplusgood
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from Toronto, very sad ,stunning row house just in the wrong part of town I suppose. often on my visits to Buffalo see great existing and continuing refurbished housing stock on the west and north side which would be the envy of Toronto, I am sure one day your east side will experiance the same renaissiance that is happening in the rest of Buffalo; just hope it won't be too late for the incumbent stock

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Stunning? Historic?
Even if there were pictures of the original construct...there was nothing significant about them and they were to small for anyone to really live there except maybe municipal housing or college students.

This is not a loss for Buffalo.

Row houses, townhomes especially if garages are incorporated on the first floor and the 2nd and 3rd floor living space would do quite nicely in many sections of Buffalo as infill...especially if the architect looked at period designs from Buffalo and other cities.

However...to save the insignificant...is meaningless

However...to diversify our housing stock by encouraging more infill with period rowhouse/townhouse design...in historic districts and any design in non-historic districts....would be an asset for Buffalo.

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They were 1400 sq.ft. each- quite a bit larger than your room at the Pysch Center.

replied to QueenCity
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I don't agree or disagree with Platt's comment to Queen City, but I just wanted to say, that was quite the funny retort!

replied to Platt4
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i don't live in the area, so i don't know what the neighborhood's feeling towards these houses was. however, there have been cases in the past where someone has torched a house (or several houses) if it was believed the structures were becoming too dangerous to leave standing. whether that's physical danger (house falling on people) or the criminal element (house becoming a hangout for drug dealer/addicts/squatters/etc).

of course that's just one possibilty and complete speculation. it could very well just have been some bored kids or strung out crackheads starting the fire. who knows.

there seems to be a wealth of people out there who want to save buildings like these. there is also probably enough people with the money to do so. the problem is, they're not the same people. if they were, then we wouldn't even be discussing things like this!

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I am sorry to hear this news, very sad indeed. This is one area of Buffalo that really needs residents more than vacant lots. I was hopeful that this area would come back with the improvements to the Performing Arts Academy.


I commend David Torke for his valiant efforts to save this building and I am sorry it didn't work out. Had this building been on the West Side, then it may have turned out differently.

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Yes there are quite a few people out there trying to save and restore buildings but please remember the list of buildings in danger is far longer than the people willing to own them and save them.

There are many many more deserving buildings on the list...

and there are much better rowhouses that could replace them...

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I don't know what happened to my first post, but I'll try again...

The saddest part for me at this point is... I'm not surprised, nor do I really care. It's like seeing or reading about yet another story about a local shooting. At this point, I'd be surprised if there WASN'T a story like this.

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Maybe I am missing something but I am trying to figure out how a bunch of ****tail party fah-fahs manage to control preservation in Buffalo.


Do they get to write building codes or appoint building inspectors? Do they get to send properties to Housing Court or appoint judges? Do they get to decide what is on City demo list? Do they get to decide who serves on the Buffalo Preservation Board? Do they get to decide who gets historic tax credits? Do they get to decide what gets added to the National Register? Do they get to decide what Buffalo preservation issues are covered by the media and how?


If they have this kind of power, maybe I'll crash one of those far-fah ****tail parties.

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The Woodlawn Row townhouses would have been an awesome renovation and adaptive reuse project if the City of Buffalo didn't just let them decay and remain abandoned. But some arsonist just could not resist and now these historic rowhouses will soon be demolished and cleared out. I am so happy that the Byron Brown administration is so dedicated to the preservation and revitalization of our city's more seriously troubled neighborhoods. This lousy track record of the administration resulted in this arson fire and loss of another historic landmark.

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RPreskop>"The Woodlawn Row townhouses would have been an awesome renovation and adaptive reuse project if the City of Buffalo didn't just let them decay and remain abandoned."

Perhaps yes, and also many, many vacant buildings in Buffalo would potentially be an "awasome renovation and adaptive reuse project". There's too many to count.

Regardless of who's mayor, City Hall doesn't have enough money to prevent most long-term vacant buildings from decay and abandonment. And even if it ever has enough money to do that, which it never will, that wouldn't be the smartest use of the money. Some interesting old buildings can be saved, but not all of them. Issues of supply and demand are realities everywhere, and shrinking cities are no exception.

RPreskop>"This lousy track record of the administration resulted in this arson fire and loss of another historic landmark."

Although it was an interesting old building, it wasn't a historic landmark. The arsonist should be sent to jail for a very long time. That likely won't happen in this soft-on-crime area even if there's ever a conviction. No jail time was given to the arsonist who torched the vacant house which cost a Buffalo firefighter his leg a few years ago, although he's in jail now for a subsequent violent crime.

replied to RPreskop
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Whatever, there are few rowhouses in Buffalo and it was special in that respect. It wasn't a historic landmark, but that doesn't mean it's worth any less protection. You're right that the city doesn't have the money to prevent most structures from decay, however are there any buildings that they are trying to protect? Maybe there are. If so, I'd be glad for more information

replied to whatever
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"there are few rowhouses in Buffalo and it was special in that respect"

That's what made it interesting, as I said it was. I didn't say it wasn't "special", just that it wasn't a historic landmark.

"are there any buildings that they are trying to protect?"

Off the top of my head, here's 3 and no doubt there's some others: the Market Arcade, which if I'm not mistaken the city govt purchased, rehabbed, and continues to maintain. The Livery, which city govt money helped save last year. The city funds the Broadway Market, which although not architecturally significant is considered "special" by some and I wouldn't be surprised if it's been referred to as a historic landmark. Without city govt funding it likely would be abandoned at this point. Perhaps city govt funds are being used to prevent the Summit building from collapse too, and if so that would be a fourth.

Those examples will be considered trivial by people who want City Hall to fund a massive widescale effort to protect old buildings. There's no money is the city budget for such an effort, however, and as I said even if there was money it wouldn't be the smartest use of it considering so many other needs around here.

Losing a lot of old buildings to decay and abandonment is obviously one of the consequences of being a shrinking city. Even non-shrinking cities lose some of course, but here it's naturally happening on a larger scale.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Whatever, I agree that the city can't save everything. It seems, though, that they don't make an effort to save much.

replied to whatever
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Much is a nice vague word. They also don't have much spare money available in the city budget. There's also much money needed for other things.

It's revealing that despite all the blaming of Mayor Brown for this, his opponent hasn't proposed a big increase in city govt funding for old buildings either, and the Common Council (the majority of which is politically alligned against this mayor) year after year never anmends the city budget for a big increase in funding either. If they wanted to, they could move money from other parts of the budget to do that.

Generalized complaining is very easy.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Yes, generalized complaining is easy. If I had more details regarding these rowhouses, I would've elevated the level of discourse to keep your interest. In the meantime, I'll just complain loudly in frustration.

replied to whatever
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What was lacking isn't details about them, just demand in the row houses from any serious purchasers-developers-saviors. fixBuffalo.blogspot.com has posted lots of details about the row houses many times, and Buffalo Rising also publicized details about them as I recall.

Frustration is inevitable from people who want City Hall to redirect a significant amount of city govt money into saving more of them. Buffalo has a far bigger supply of interesting old builidngs than there is real demand for using them.

Only a portion will be saved, and even that portion won't be mostly the result of City Hall funding. There just isn't enough spare money in the city budget, and most city residents wouldn't choose that spending priotity even if there ever is (which is extremely unlikely anyhow, considering NY state's ongoing budget situation).

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Did the city do anything to market the rowhouses? BRO and FixBuffalo are great sites, but if preservation in Buffalo depends upon these two sites, there's a problem.

It's debatable whether the city should redirect a significant amount of money to preservation of the rowhouses, but did the city spend any money? Do you know? Did they even bother to put up a fence around the structure to discourage at least some vandalism?

replied to whatever
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The city doesn't market any of the buildings that they own through no fault of their own. What happened to the last group of investors who defaulted on the property and left it is the care of the city? What about the investors who backed out of a deal to buy them last year? Where are they in all of this?

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Paul>"Did the city do anything to market the rowhouses?"

Actually in between owners the city did try to find a developer for them. That should count as marketing. Pitts once considered it then decided against it. Perhaps others considered it too. Some extemists will never admit that there wasn't sufficient market demand for these. If that makes anyone feel better, great.

The city also arranged a public auction for the row houses in Sept 2007, discussed here, which also should count as marketing and an example of the city spending money on them:
http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com/2007/08/row-house-auction.html

The auction is an example disproving the "ignored" accusation.

Re. terminology, I stated my opinion about difference between historic and old. If anyone doesn't like it, that's fine. Obviously it's subjective. We can all have our own opinions about what's historic. You guys state yours, I'll state mine, anyone reading can decide for themselves.

Paul>"Did they even bother to put up a fence around the structure"

To build a strong enough fence around them to keep out a determined arsonist is impractical. As can be seen by looking at the picture, it was a pretty big building.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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If an auction is the only level of effort the city expends, then that's a poor attempt to save a building. It takes diligence.

Did the city make any attempt to protect the building from the weather?

A fence around the building may have not deterred an arsonist, but it could've discouraged previous acts of vandalism.

replied to whatever
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The city continually boarded this building up, just to have the boards ripped out by the neighbors.

The building was routinely advertised for sale on various real estate listings, like Craigslist and Kijiji. A few nibbles, but no one bit.


What did you do to help?

replied to PaulBuffalo
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"If an auction is the only level of effort the city expends,"

It wasn't the "only level of effort". You keep making untruthful claims and implications, then when those are refuted you just move the goal posts.

I mentioned the effort of their very public auction and their efforts to trying finding developers, almost succeeding with at least one - maybe more. And dblplusgood mentioned their efforts of repeatedly boarding it up and their efforts at national advertising to try finding an owner.

In the manner of a zealot or web troll, you begin with your verdict that the city govt is guilty then you move backwards to try hunting for evidence, real or imagined - doesn't matter, to put in the indictment.

Guilty until proven innocent, then impossible for innocence to be proven to your satisfaction. Clever, not.

Ok, I'm done with this one.
Have fun making your next round of uninformed malicious claims and innuendo!

replied to PaulBuffalo
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David Torke has described the situation for years as demolition by neglect. This structure hasn't received a lot of attention. You disagree and I'm not surprised.

replied to whatever
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Actually, it -is- a historic landmark. The Buffalo Preservation Board landmarked it in the 1980s.

replied to whatever
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They named it a landmark. That board doesn't name anything a historic landmark.

http://www.preservationbuffaloniagara.org/presbd/bflocharter.html

replied to Shoestring Budget
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Okay, let's take it from the top, people. The City of Buffalo Preservation Board is not to be confused with Preservation Buffalo Niagara.


The former gets to officially designate landmarks, amongst other things, and has enforcement powers when it comes to historic districts.


The latter gets to advocate for preservation, amongst other things, and has no enforcement powers.


Here's the canonical list of Buffalo's officially designated landmarks, National Register properties, etc. Scroll down and you'll see that the rowhouses are official local landmarks.


http://www.buffaloah.com/a/landmks/landmks6.html

replied to whatever
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Maybe what we disagee about is the word historic for this building. People have different opinions - I was expreessing mine. I also wrote it was an intersting building.

Your link doesn't say the row houses were a historic landmark. I wasn't confusing boards. The links we both posted both refer to landmarks designated by the city Pres Board. The link I posted defined terms including landmark, not historic.

I never wrote it hadn't been designated a landmark. I wrote it wasn't a historic landmark.

replied to Shoestring Budget
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I think its a verbage thing, local listing is as a Buffalo "landmark," by definition, compared to state and federal listing which is on the NR of "historic" places.

replied to whatever
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Whatever, the Woodlawn Avenue Row was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1986. Why are you splitting hairs regarding a word? The structure had value and it was ignored. That's the larger picture here.


http://www.livingplaces.com/NY/Erie_County/Buffalo_City/Woodlawn_Avenue_Row.html

replied to whatever
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PaulBuffalo: You have it backwards... the structure received a lot of attention but lacked value. There is little demand for row houses in Buffalo, especially in one of the most violent / drug ridden / crime infested areas of the city. The residents of Buffalo abandoned the row houses for a reason and wishing for someone to invest just because a select few people (who didn't purchase and rehab them) thought that they were architecturally or culturally significant. No one really cared ENOUGH about this before it was too late, and that includes those all of us whose only contribution to saving supposed landmarks is to post about them anonymously from various locales.


In situations like these, it is either put up or shut up, 20 years of wishes and words won't save any of Buffalo.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Aside from two websites, what attention did these rowhouses receive?

replied to dblplusgood
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These row houses were significant and added value to our city. Your argument of let the market decide is not only old and discredited but short sighted. It is arrogant to continue destroying our historic built environment and each loss robs Buffalo of the one asset we have, great old buildings. It may take another couple of generations but our city will recover. Saving the best for the future is the right thing to do and also makes good economic sense.

replied to dblplusgood
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So Blackrocklifer, what should have been done with it? They tried to give this building away for decades and no one wanted it. Should we have used taxpayer's money to fix it up so a politically connected developer could profit from it? Should we have turned it into city run public housing and kept throwing more taxpayer's money at it for three more decades? No one wanted this building. NO ONE.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Significant old buildings should be secured, stabilized, and protected. Not every old house in Buffalo but those that are of quality construction and style. Chicago has done it, Denver did it and neighborhoods that were considered unlivable at one time became desirable. Empty lots won't bring people back into our neighborhoods,great old buildings will. Start thinking ahead, Buffalo has a future beyond the time you and I are here.

replied to dblplusgood
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The building was secured, stabilized, and protected... it was also broken into, pilfered, vandalized, and burned by the local neighbors. If the neighbors don't care enough to take watch out for the property, if the community isn't there to keep the kids and adult vandals out of it, if the community doesn't see anything wrong with ripping out the plumbing and furnaces on these buildings, then what is the city to do?

Why would an investor pump money into an area that the residents don't even care about just to be faced with housing violations and the never ending battle against the crime elements in the community?

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Didn't anyone teach you alphabetical order as a child? Scroll about 9/10 to the bottom. Voila.


http://www.buffaloah.com/a/landmks/landmks6.html

replied to whatever
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@Shoestringbudget


"Do they get to write building codes or appoint building inspectors?" No, but they can work within the system and offer suggestions in a proactive manner for the building codes AND they can schedule meetings with Inspections if they feel the codes are not being enforced to have the inspectors cite the property owner. This leads into your next question...


"Do they get to send properties to Housing Court or appoint judges?" By working within the inspection system, they can, most definitely have properties cited by the city for court. As for appointing judges, we already have an exceptional and preservation-aware judge in Hank Nowak.

"Do they get to decide what is on City demo list?" Not the coalition, but they can work hand in hand with the Preservation Board who DOES have the last word in demolitions.


"Do they get to decide who serves on the Buffalo Preservation Board?" They do not have the authority to appoint, however, they have the strentgh, if they would use it, to lobby for the right folks.


"Do they get to decide who gets historic tax credits?" They could if they work hand in hand with the NYS Historic Preservation Office to set up a streamlined system for application AND make recommendations.


"Do they get to decide what gets added to the National Register?" In a way, yes. As a matter of fact, there is such a promotional program going on now that seems to be hitting every district in the city to make it an Historic District. This has been spearheaded by the very folks mentioned here. Unfortunately, they do not stand by a "Gap Fund" program that was developed a few years back. Let me explain. As neighborhoods are added to the Historic fold, the prices of repair increase somewhat due to preservation standards as dictated by the Secretary of the Interior. Yes, they promote repair, however, there are some repairs that are too far gone to make and the cost increases. As the costs increase, the burden is on the homeowner. Many of the homeowners in some neighborhoods have lived there for years and are now on fixed incomes. This increased cost to them and the repairs can make some of these folks sell and have to move from their homes. The Gap Fund as defined by its founder Judge Henry Nowak, would provide a grant for the "gap" of the costs if the homeowner could not afford the repair or replacement. Say, for example, a window needed to be replaced. In an historic district you could not use the new replacement windows and, instead, would have to use wooden windows with the proper number of lights, etc. This can cause a gap of, let's say $400. The Gap Fund would provide that additional $400. But, the preservationists pooh-poohed the idea.


"Do they get to decide what Buffalo preservation issues are covered by the media and how?" Yes, most certainly, especially if they were proactive versus their usual reactive responses to issues such as the row houses this article is all about.

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"Do they get to decide what gets added to the National Register?" You said: "In a way, yes." Actually, no. Only the National Register people get to decide what goes on the National Register.


"Do they get to decide who gets historic tax credits?" You said, "They could if they work hand in hand with the NYS Historic Preservation Office to set up a streamlined system for application AND make recommendations." I wasn't aware that state government could outsource its administrative and regulatory functions to advocacy groups. Hmmm, this could be gooooood!


Most importantly: "Do they get to decide what Buffalo
preservation issues are covered by the media and how?" You said, "Yes, most certainly, especially if they were proactive versus their usual reactive responses to issues such as the row houses this article is all about."


Which brings up an important issue. None of the proactive stuff you want gets headlines or TV soundbites. So how do you know isn't being planned or done? Maybe you had certain offices bugged?


But never mind. The belief that preservationists have mighty, extra-legal powers at their disposal, if only they'd use them, is so cute I could hug you.

replied to MRodgers
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Your original question used the word "added" - and yes, the preservation folks do decide what gets added - then advocates for it.

Extra legal powers? Just as much as any citizen does - and that's what they should be doing - pushing for these properties to go to court - they're the ones that have a staff and the title - the rest of us gomocks just keep on keeping on - like David Torke.

Not once have I seen one of them in on a court case where they could use their title and power to make a difference in the community input. That's being proactive, not reactive -showing up at demo sites while the ball and chain swings.

replied to Shoestring Budget
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Only local historic district listing provides the city the ability to review projects. Listing on the National Register of Historic Places is only for recognition unless your project has federal or state monies or permitting. Listing on the NR does allow owners to take advantage of the federal and state tax credits. It's important to make these distinctions, because what you say is taken as the truth, and may actually lead to home and business owners not supporting an NR historic district or individual listing which would open up increased incentives for rehabilitation.

replied to MRodgers
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Did anyone really ask in a serious manner what happened to previous investors? As a homeowner in this city maybe I can answer, they suddenly saw that if they invested their own money it would be like throwing it down the toilet. It those houses cost $250 thousand to upgrade, fix and remodel, when you were finished they would only be worth a fraction of that cost. Currently,in this country, we have many areas where the homeowner is under water on his mortgage. Do you think that the feeling would be any different here in Buffalo. This dilapidated structure should have disappeared years ago.

Buffalo has some of the cheapest land property in WNY but middle class families do not want to build homes here without the City of Buffalo giving them numerous tax breaks and other incentives. These all amount to a discount on the cost of building the new house. The effect is to shift the cost of services which they will receive either at a discount or for free to the homeowners who buy their homes without City of Buffalo aid.

The best thing that could happened to Buffalo is to get a real program and demolish the vacant homes in two or three years at the most. Some of the people on this web site should admit that they do not care how a vacant, abandoned building affects the value of homes in that neighborhood. If you do not want to demolish abandoned homes then I would suggest getting involved politically and pressure the current politicians to make decisions and create programs that would encourage people to stay in the city as residents. How many homes have been built in this city during the last four years without any local government aid? Please do not mention property tax deduction and the mortgage interest deduction as aid.

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Saving those particular row houses was quite a newsworthy event by AT LEAST 1970. They were already rundown back then.
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This BR topic has gotten rundown way beyond simply nasty, especially since there must be an investigation pending or actually being carried out right now???
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But then, on second thought, would there be an investigation since those rows were not owned and insured by REITTs or REIGs?
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Were any surrounding properties damaged?


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Row houses are individual buildings, sharing common walls which are usually either brick or stone. They can be bought and owned separately, each on its own lot. This place was ONE single apartment building, on an single lot, and was never divided into separate properties.

That said, it was also a shoddy shack of a deathtrap, and it's a relief that it burned without tenants. It was a cheap firetrap when built, like its several copies in that neighborhood (which were demolished years ago). The demolition photos show no evidence of a firewall between units - no wonder it burned so well. The 'row houses' on Emerson, also multi-unit apartments. appear to lack firewalls in Google and Bing aerial shots.

For real row houses, see Delaware near Virginia, or North Pearl near North.

Answer to Crisa: The house behind it has fire damage to its siding.

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I Googled Harlem Road and Maryvale Drive in Cheektowaga. What is happening with those row houses that can be seen from Harlem Road and from the 33?
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There was a time when those apartments were cheaply rented by young families saving toward their first homes. I think they have firewalls. They look livable from a distance.
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There are also the four units on Sumner Pl. and Walden Ave. Searching Google and the city-buffalo properties page. They appear to be in good shape and to be individually owned.
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When I was a kid I had a girl friend whose family lived in one of the units. I had no idea about firewalls, but I thought that was the cutest set up! On Google, all four units appear to be inhabitable and also actually inhabited.

replied to Verdan
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The Maryvale Dr properties ("Cedargrove Heights") were built as temporary housing for Curtiss-Wright and Westinghouse workers, in WWII. Temporary for 65+ year, so far! Someone wanted to eminent-domain them out of there & build a "Renaissance Village", 2005 ... resistance killed that idea. Not really 'rowhouses', either - 4-unit apartments.

Same for 109 Sumner - it's a 4-unit (according to the City) on one lot - and assessed @ a whopping $20K. ouch.

replied to Crisa
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Thanks for answering.
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I remember when the Cedargrove Heights units were in the media in 2005. I have no idea who owns them now.
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I do remember that when people we know lived there years before the 2000s, an owner of at least one section actually lived in one of the units--the nicest one--and was there to take complaints and eventually act on them. But that was long ago and all is probably quite different now.
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As far as 109 Sumner, I did a City of Buffalo Property Search. It is assessed at a nonwhopping $20,000.00. The City taxes are a nonwhopping $641.24 (and that can be paid in two parts! It is owned by Shahib Golden who paid $3,500.00 on 2/12/2008 for the four units. Non-homestead.
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I have no idea what condition those units are actually in, but, even if Golden might actually live in one of the units, that's a nice rental profit on a $3,500.00 investment since 2/12/2008!
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There is a Shahib Golden, Sr. at 222 Sumner which is accessed at about $15,000.00. And, coincidentally, there are 22 owners with the family name Golden listed at that same Properties site. And, the TV station for the City of Buffalo is Channel 22!!! --just mentionin' a Golden observation!
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The majority of houses on Sumner look really nice on Google's 2006 cameras. Others are accessed at around $35,000.00 with taxes about the same as 109 Sumner.
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What nice, affordable, take-carable homes the houses on Sumner would make for live-in homeowners; if those aren't already live-in homeowners living in them...

replied to Verdan
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Sad that this had to occur when there were so many warnings by those who foresaw that this was to be the ultimate outcome unless some action was taken.

Buffalo's a place that continues to break your heart when you witness circumstances like the loss of the Woodlawn row houses but I believe it was summed up well by an earlier poster who observed that the neighborhood failed to take a stand for the preservation of these structures and apparently participated in acts which promoted their ultimate decline.

If they didn't take the lead, it's evident - to me, anyway- why no one else did.

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Sad that this had to occur when there were so many warnings by those who foresaw that this was to be the ultimate outcome unless some action was taken.

Buffalo's a place that continues to break your heart when you witness circumstances like the loss of the Woodlawn row houses but I believe it was summed up well by an earlier poster who observed that the neighborhood failed to take a stand for the preservation of these structures and apparently participated in acts which promoted their ultimate decline.

If they didn't take the lead, it's evident - to me, anyway- why no one else did.

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