Theological Thursdays at The Square

Last fall, I was driving northeast of Toronto to Ottawa and I stopped for gas at a small convenience store. It was 2am and I needed caffeine. As I poured my coffee, the cashier and a customer -- the only other people in the store -- were having a heated debate about god and science. I joined in with the Muslim cashier and the Christian customer for the next hour and we had a great discussion. Needless to say, I didn't need my coffee for the rest of my drive.

I'm always glad to get in philosophical/religious discussions, but it depends on the vibe of the other person(s) as to whether it will end up a shouting match. If that happens, I bail out and go on my way.

Regarding Main Street, are there no end-of-the-world folks shouting on the streets anymore?

Rev. Drew, I agree. I've always wondered what the backstory is of most of those standard-issue "street preachers" -- for example, how many of them live in the suburbs (I often wonder the same about the abortion clinic protesters)--? The only one I ever knew personally, back in Rochester, went into the city from the suburbs (as did all those whom he teamed up with), was abusive to/domineering over his wife, and got into a fistfight with his brother over a refrigerator. I wonder how many of them would work in a more tangible way to make the world a better place and show their religion -- say by coming to help West Side Ministries rehab a house or helping chase dealers away from a corner.

But then, in reference to one of your recent articles, I suspect many of them subscribe to the "escapist" view of the world/end times. In other words, why help improve the world when you expect to be "whisked away" any day now--? Just preach brimstone at people for a few hours and leave.

Thank God I'm an atheist...

There are a few different sign-toters, but there is a sizable contingent that comes from out of town.

Relevant, the crew that I am talking about, is from all over the region.

I love when they have a wheel on the bottom of the cross.

I had a nice chat with two guys from this group before the Better Than Ezra concert a few weeks ago. They were genuinely respectful, knowledgable, and for the most part very non-judgemental. I do have to add that during my 30+ minute conversation with them, more than a dozen people walked by yelling obscenities and taking verbal shots at them. I commend them for how well they handled the hecklers and took it all in stride.

It was definitely a worthwhile conversation, and I look forward to seeing them tonight before George Clinton. Maybe we can continue our debate.

Sometimes the atheists and non-christians can be far more offensive and abrasive than those who are preaching their particular brand of religion. Sometimes atheism becomes just as much a point of affilitation and can be filled with just as many hypocrites as the religious "nuts".

Yeah - relaxed conversation - intelligent back and forth - that all is great.

BUT it is not what the yahoo pictured on this post does - nor does it represent half of the idiots that plague downtown on a normal summer. (It seems they have tapered off this summer - perhaps their devotion is a little sensitve to rain.)

To yell and scream, thinking that one is going to make any impact whatsoever is aboslutely what these folks are all about. It is about them - their own story - their own redemption - and their own self-absorbtion. If they weren't yelling at me, I would be half-tempted to listen. (Maybe that's why the Scientologists always have people at their tables learning about those pesky aliens inhabiting us - damn thetans...)

What I don't get - is that we can have these jerks yelling and handing out their propoganda - but someone selling an ice cream cone gets told to beat it? (Yep - it all had to come back to the ice cream debate...)

it's great how these preachers, ministers, etc. talk to you in a respectful, nonjudgmental manner.

it's even better when they attempt to dismantle your psyche and/or self-esteem by placing their moral totem on top of your system of thought. yes, the way moral conviction is introduced in their dialogue is a subtle reminder of the fascist nature of devotion.

by the way, religion is a pseudo philosophy. it is a resignation to the infinite, a manner of thought confining itself to the known, and interpreting the unknown through divinity.

the downtrodden and oppressed have only two enemies in our society, those who try to screw them, and those who try to save them....sooner or later everyone's God has to hate someone.

in the words of a sage ol' bumper sticker

"Jesus may love you, but everyone else thinks you're a flaming A-hole"

i'm very curious to know just what advice is offered to lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, and trans-gender youth, (LGBT) who are beat up and threatened in their schools, streets, and homes - at one of these free pizza gospel sit-ins??? there is an alarming lack of 'love' in buffalo churches for these most vulnerable among us. since we're all in the mood to quote 'scripture' try this on....'A POX ON ALL YOUR HOUSES!'
(st.w.shakespeare~book of romeo and juliet)

Missed you last week, Rev. Drew.

I've never been prosyletized by an atheist and I doubt anyone ever has. We usually avoid admitting it, because it comes off as implicit criticism of believers no matter how mildly expressed. Sometimes I think there are more atheists in the closet than gay people.

But I have been hassled by evangelicals. A few years ago I was on my way to work, waiting to cross a street near downtown. A guy approached me with Christian literature. I politely said, "No, thank you," as I do to everyone handing out stuff when I need to get someplace on time, whether it is car wash coupons or devotional tracts. He insisted. I repeated myself. He started yelling at me about burning in hell, etc.

I still cannot figure out verbal abusing strangers is supposed to win them to your cause. Guys like him don't want to save souls at all. Ever notice how, um, excited they get about the prospect of people writhing in torture for all eternity? It does seem to be a guy thing. I can't recall ever being hassled by an evangelical woman.

Which explains a lot about why so many leaders on the Christian Right were silent about "harsh interrogation techniques."

"I had a nice chat with two guys from this group before the Better Than Ezra concert a few weeks ago. They were genuinely respectful, knowledgable, and for the most part very non-judgemental."

I was at George Clinton last night, stayed across Main from the main masses to be able to breathe a bit, and I was right across from the group of protesters (who are now positioning themselves right within 5 feet of the guards checking IDs). I don't converse with the group at Thursday at the Square, as the signs held aloft are more than enough to convince me of the judgment being passed. While I applaud them for voicing their convictions in a place with potential for so much verbal abuse. But it doesn't mean I have to validate statements such as "Harry Potter is taking your kid to hell" or "There are no gay Christians". These are not the seeds of productive debate -- they're incitement, and I don't blame the individuals who respond with verbal abuse.

Drew, regarding your comments to paul morgan above, I think the reason that I and the others above gladly participate and exchange views in your articles is because it's obvious that you are a rare tolerant Christian. (If you weren't, I'd certainly take my reading elsewhere.)

In my own story, I was an altar boy in Riverside and I loved the ritual. It seemed a welcoming environment until I started questioning the concept of god at the age of 13. When I didn't continue religious education in high school, I was essentially ignored any time I visited the church or attended the annual lawn fete. While a difficult time, I was glad for the experience because it made me explore the validity of religion at a young age.

I have sympathy for the folks in the LGBT community because they have to deal with such intolerant holier-than-thou types that plague many religions. Look at the divide in the Episcopal church in western New York that caused many of them to set up shop in another building because they do not accept gay clergy. Religion, on the whole, still remains an intolerant bastion of old and hurtful thinking and in that sense I can understand paul morgan's line that 'sooner or later everyone's god has to hate someone'.

The louder you speak, the less people hear.