City June 12, 2009 6:45 PM

Another Voice: The Great American Dreamcycle

Another Voice: The Great American Dreamcycle

[Editor's note:  The following commentary is a thoughtful, well-formed opinion that takes a look at priorities, regulations, and the root of fair business practices and representation.  We found this piece to be a good and perhaps unrepresented part of an ongoing dialogue.]

 

By Paul Morgan

Ah, the exuberance, and injustice of youth, and inexperience.  James the "Ice Creamcycle Dude" is a greening entrepreneur, someone Buffalo sorely needs, and should be able to 'go where the people are', and sell his inexpensive treats, wherever he likes, right?  Or should he?  The problem with these knee-jerk reactions to seemingly 'innocent victims' of bureaucratic injustice, is that rarely do we get the entire story, in full context, as relates to our community at large.  Such is the case with this peddling purveyor of spumoni on a stick.

First of all, the City of Buffalo in no way resembles an 'oyster' except in the way our business people and civic leaders often behave as if there is only one pearl of great value to be wrestled from the tight grip of an old and calcified shell!  Buffalo is a city of a relatively large number of individuals engaged in the day-to-day struggle to make a living while civilly co-inhabiting a limited and defined physical space.  The cost of this civilization, and democracy for that matter, is a system of rules and regulations that, regrettably, govern all of our lives. 

I have a small business in which I make and sell a variety of fashion accessories.  Like James, I wanted to go 'where the people are', namely our area shopping malls during the holiday months.  The cost for a self contained peddlers 'cart' not much larger than James' ice cream cycle was between 10 and 30 thousand dollars for a three-month season.  This financial reality presents relatively the same cost ratio of dollars to dilly bars that James sights in his complaint, that being- a lot of $1 - $2 cream cones, just to break even. 

Yes indeed, this is America, and James should be able to offer competition to Ben & Jerry's, or Baskin Robbins, but the cost of doing so, in a capitalist society, is the cost of rent, permits, and licenses.  If James were to invest the staggering amount required to rent a store front, establish a client base, advertise, insure, and what have you, only to have Billy Bob ride up on a bike to drastically undercut his overhead while stealing his customers, would he find that 'fair'?  Similarly, Buffalo event planners take huge risks, invest vast sums, and are entitled to a modicum of control over event perimeters.  They are similarly entitled to reasonably charge a fee to venders to offsets production costs to stage these popular FREE events, enjoyed by so many.

I also sell my wares in the lobbies of some of Buffalo's premier office buildings.  For that privilege I pay expensive per day rental fees, and must carry exorbitant liability insurance, naming each and every building specifically as an 'added insured to my policy', each time incurring an additional $30 processing fee.  Multiply our small experience times the thousands of unique small businesses and the costs, and bureaucratic hurdles never seem to end.  Yes James, this infuriating, frustrating situation is seemingly counterproductive to free enterprise and the American dream.

The question is: how do we address this problem?  Do we make a knee-jerk exception in your case, or revamp existing codes to custom fit your circumstance?  What of the rest of us?  Do we need to capture the hearts of citizens and the pages of local media to stand a snow cones chance in hell to receive our right to fair representation in local government?  Or do we deceive ourselves into believing that we are actually accomplishing anything by signing a poorly worded petition, addressed to no law maker in particular, and making no specific or reasoned request for progressive reform to our city permit codes?  Again and again in this saga, I come back to the seemingly obvious but never asked question....'what about the rest of us?'

If I sound like I have an ax to grind, I do.  When the Jersey Street Livery collapsed one year ago this week, neighbors reached out repeatedly to this mayor and administration.
We received little or no response from officials, and when the wrecking crews arrived a week later, neighbors accessed the court system for an injunction, in the only venue left to us, to have our voices heard by this administration.  The mayor NEVER met with our community representatives, to this day in fact, yet we also represented hundreds of petitioners and fellow citizens.

Unlike the warm, friendly, and very public response James received from Mayor Brown, we were fought by the city every step of the way to secure some remains of the Livery, and continue to fight for a sensible re-use of the property that is appropriate to our community.  It adds insult to injury to see the Mayor's grab for the spotlight in this situation, and rush to remediate a problem that inconveniences three guys on bikes- who by all appearances, did not do any due diligent research on city permits before they creamed up their refrigerated cycles.

What this city and country need is sustained and committed work on the part of all citizens to be more involved in our democratic process, and the running of our governments.  I applaud James for making his plight public, and sharing with us the difficulties in running a small business start up in Buffalo.  What I resent is the special treatment certain sympathetic causes receive in the media, and from city hall, out of all proportion to the relative number of individuals effected, or the common good addressed. 

I am aware that our poor beleaguered Livery had just such appeal.  What most readers may be unaware of perhaps, is that those same citizens who worked to save the Livery, work year in and year out, fighting crime, blight, street drugs, and problem landlords through community clean ups, community gardens, block clubs, and as diligent watchdogs in Buffalo housing courts.  A very few individuals do the heavy lifting for an entire community, and every day we need more help, more press, and more sympathetic support from elected officials.

So, by all means, buy an ice cream cone from these poor guys - before they peddle to North Carolina in search of the great American Dreamcycle....just make sure you enjoy it on the way to a public planning meeting, block club, or charitable community volunteer opportunity.  Educate yourselves on our rotten and failing school system and political machines, and get involved.  Two or three hours a week could mean the difference between the Buffalo of our dreams, and the depressing status quo.

See also: Buffalo News Story

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Current city permit legislation doesn't take into consideration this innovative concept. Offer me a fair solution, it's all i'm asking for.

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Paul,
You need to learn the difference between public and private space. Malls, office building lobbies, etc., have nothing to do with the public realm which is owned by us all.
If you think a push cart business is easy/getting off light, then give up your shop and go to it.

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"buy an ice cream cone from these poor guys - before they peddle to North Carolina in search of the great American Dreamcycle....
just make sure you enjoy it on the way to a public planning meeting, block club, or charitable community volunteer opportunity.
Educate yourselves on our rotten and failing school system and political machines, and get involved."


I'll "make sure" to give all those bossy commands the consideration they deserve.


I don't see why anything to do with The Livery matter or malls or office buildings should be used to imply it's not a good idea to make Buffalo's street vendor permitting more fair, cheap, and streamlined. Apples and oranges.

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Morgan, your full of sour grapes. You go to a mall or in the lobby of buildings that have people in them that are your direct customers. You don;t have to peddle around looking for sales. You are living a dream. James is unique since his business is an attraction as well as a service. Would the Wharf at San Francisco be the same without the unique peddlers they have there? Nope. Would the mall be the same if you weren't selling your stuff. Yep.

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I think Paul made some very valid points. Govt should not cater to every passing public whim. His post (and my comment) is nothing against James... but I think it's important that the solution is not benefiting one individual while harming a group of others. BuffaloRising has not posted any comment from the city on this subject, and I think that is misleading public opinion.

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Paul, very well written.

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Funny story, I was driving back to Kenmore from the Greek Festival last Saturday and saw James on Elmwood. He was speaking with someone and all of a sudden looked frustrated and threw his hands up in the air as if to say "look at this". I looked across the street and there it was, an Ice Cream truck. I guess there is competition all over the place.

I typically go down to Elmwood for something different or of a higher quality, not a sponge bob square pants frosty treat.

MG

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I have never seen an ice cream truck on Elmwood. I regularly run into them on the West Side, I simply go over to the next block... 98% of American's like ice cream, there are enough people to ensure we can all coexist and prosper.

If I looked frustrated last Friday, it was most likely due to the City pulling my permits the night before.

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Please tell me Summer isn't going to be about the trials and tribulations of Paul the Ice Cream Guy. Bring on winter!

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I agree with everything Paul said however I think the Ice Cream guy is just asking for fair and understandable set of rules. And this - unlike the mall the streets of Buffalo don't have a crush of retailers and people competing for the same space - the city needs to do what it takes to attract the entrepreneurs who will make the city attractive. Too often we hear of city policies which repel the people needed the most

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The author seems to be making a few different points in his post:

1) Public policy re: mobile vendor permits needs to give consideration to the investments and considerations of physical retailers
2) James has gotten a lot of attention and that may help him find policy remediation but it's harder for others to get the same attention
3) The media, the public and politicians unfairly and improperly react to certain issues because of their 'appeal' but don't react to other equally or more important issues

Point 1 is perfectly valid. Of course, I think that even by giving consideration to physical retailers, the city should be able to come up with 1 single permit for a reasonable fee ($500 or so) which allows a vendor to go anywhere in city limits any day of the week.
Point 2 is sort of silly but obviously true. Some stories are simply more appealing as are some businesses. James has captured the attention of a lot of people because the business is endearing to most urban-minded people, especially ones with children.
Point 3 is valid but fairly obvious. The humans who operate in the world of media, politics and policy aren't efficient calculators - they react imprecisely and are often times subject to influences that are neither helpful nor appropriate.

One of the larger policy issues that has seem to gone unnoticed is the separate fiefdoms that operate within the city. The notion that Buffalo Place, the city and the Olmsted Parks each have permit procedures is absurd. That makes business hard and inefficient and the city should have sole authority for handling mobile vendor permits for all areas of the city. Reasonable people can disagree over what the permit fee should be and what particular regulations should come along with the permit (insurance requirements, hours of operation restrictions, etc.) but there doesn't seem to be a reasonable case for making entrepreneurs deal with 3 governmental (or quasi-governmental) agencies to get mobile vending rights in the areas of the city that actually have commerce and people.

So, on balance, Paul's post raised some decent public policy points but then kind of wandered off into vague generalities.

Has the city actually responded to this issue? Paul mentions that James received a friendly and warm response from the Mayor but I haven't seen any details about that.

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"Paul mentions that James received a friendly and warm response from the Mayor but I haven't seen any details about that."

From the linked News article: Mayor Byron W. Brown, who has bought snacks from the “Creamcycle Dude” in the past, called Karagiannis on Wednesday after learning about the controversy. Brown stopped short of promising any changes in permit policies, but he vowed to promote dialogue.

“I’m trying to facilitate a meeting with various parties and this young man so we can look at the issue,” Brown said.

replied to Cardiff Giant
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The question: In order to advance our collective shared cause - Buffalo - should we, as simple citizens, attempt to do what we can to play by the rules and utilize established procedures for our complaints (Paul), or should we try to change the rules through arguably impulsive, but undeniably passionate, grassroots advocacy (James the Icecreamcyclist)?


This is actually a good question for anyone who plans to advocate for anything in Buffalo. Should you do all your research first and spend the time to work within the system, or should you make a lot of noise first? Ideally, you should do both. But beyond that, this debate challenges us to think about how to best challenge the entrenched bureaucratic machinery that makes us feel like we're just chasing windmills all day. How do we best accomplish change? Should we accept the bureacracy and learn its ins and outs, but then risk being be consumed by it, or should we just raise hell as soon as we realize that bureacracy is what holds us back, but then risk being accused of failing to do due diligence?


Which approach will actually help Buffalo grow?


Personally, I'm beginning to fear that too many of us view the lumbering political machinery and its obfuscating red tape as some kind of bad luck that 'regular people' are just completely powerless against. Getting stuck in red tape is akin to getting stuck in a snow storm on the 90: "Just the way it goes in Western NY - I can't change it any more than I can change the weather." But that attitude is precisely the problem. It is the definition of "inefficacy," which is a recognized trigger for depression. Not good for an entire populace to experience collectively. So, good on James for reminding us that regular people can affect change (well...hopefully) by just utilizing social networking to get the story out. (Contrast James with that family who ran a business and decided to move to Florida and got the Buffalo News to do a sympathetic elegy for them that was supposed to make us all feel bad about ourselves. Disgusting political ploy utilizing top-down media channels). Go on James, get down with your cause. Get rid of some red tape, but more importantly, remind people that we all have political efficacy. We run politicians (humbly, as "the people"); politicians don't run us.

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Hand it to the Buffalo News for talking a picture showing one of the main arguments against the ice cream guy. He is pictured right in fron of Watson's! So a brick and mortar that pays all the expenses that come along with that... watches as a guy on a bike with his media circus competes with them while bemoaning $1000 in permit fees.

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Bravo Paul! I cringed when I read from one commentator "...time for another petition". All this silly talk just reinforces the fact that the so-called activists in this community create just as many self-serving agendas as the administration they so adamantly admonish. The dynamics amongst City Hall (Mayor and council), citizens, non-profits, and citizens is so dysfunctional. Why not push for a real dialogue on real issues. (no offense to James. I know your business is very real for you and you should defend it with all your power.)

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without the dynamics of change we'll stay right where we are. both Masielo and Griffin had special agreements with their frineds and family that got us here. at least stirring the pot can effect good changes for the better.

And for the rest of you including paul I've got a cpoy of Who Moved My Cheese if your willing to read it.

replied to BacktoBuffalo
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I find it interesting that in all of the years that ice cream trucks have been around, that none of this fuss was ever made. Well, at least I've never heard of a mayor looking into a situation for an ice cream truck vendor before. The permits should be the same, as this is simply an ice cream mobile without an engine. Special exceptions should go across the board if things are to be changed for all mobile vendors. It looks like someone didn't do his homework before he bought his dessert, and now he's sorry because his cone has melted.

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James,

It's interesting that you use the word 'fair'....my question remains, 'fair to whom?'


I bought one of your ice dreams on a stick at the Pride Parade event at Bidwell Park (frankly I question how 'green' mylar packaging is, but that's another kettle of korn dogs altogether). Earlier in that week I was refused my application to simply set up a small table with HIV/Aids prevention / awareness information, on behalf of a long established service organization - because I was past the deadline for submission.


If I had applied in time, it would have cost our cash strapped organization $100.00 to participate in the event. Every vendor participating paid, from individual vendors like yourself, to struggling not-for-profit organizations who work to improve the lives of the less fortunate among us.


You peddled your dream-cycle right down the middle of Bidwell Park, through this permitted, and fee required event....did you pay for a permit, or submit an application? Was that 'fair' to the others?


Again James, I support your business and personal initiative, but the question is 'fair to whom?', or more precisely, that which is the most reasonably 'fair to all?'.


If you want to have a truly 'fair' discussion, produce some financials that support why multiple permits are an unreasonable burden, in light of the fact that you are free to cover more area than a stationary vendor, and there by, have greater potential for sales and profit.

Let's also examine your 'business model' again. Your selling season would seem to be a minimum of 90 days, June, July, and August for the sake of argument. If you paid all required permit fees, $50 + $315 + $600 = $965 a year divided by both 45 and 90 days (giving you a generous allowance for bad weather) and that equals $10 to $20 a day PER CART (more carts, more fees, more profits).....that seems pretty 'fair'. (however, the 5% of monthly gross sales that the parks department requires, does lead one to presume that they may be smoking their own grass clippings ~ isn't this what they call 'double dipping?' in your profession).

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Fairs got nothign to do with it, it's about making money, and if you can find a way to do it without overhead, that's called a competitive advantage.


COMPETITION IS UNFAIR, WAAAAHHHH

Open up your eyes man, entrepreneurship is what this ****ing town needs, not more permits and fees going to an already bloated government

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i'm beginning to think paul morgan is a bitter old queen. what's wrong, paul? the guy's making a good change for the better if he continues to have the permit process examined to make sure we have a little sparkle on the street instead of just bums begging for change.

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I've never seen so much hostility shown to a businessperson trying to make a living in Buffalo. The streets and sidewalks are public property. There should be one single permit for someone to peddle wares on public property in the city. I don't understand how that's unfair to anyone.

Your level of condescension is epic, misplaced, and disturbing. You mock his choice of business, but I don't see how peddling ice cream is any less meaningful than peddling schmattes and tchotchkes to the secretaries in the lobbies of office buildings.

It seems, Mr. Morgan, that you have also had difficulties with permits. It would seem to me that the answer would be to simplify and streamline these requirements, and everyone would be equally well off.

But since you readily admit that you turn to private property to sell your wares rather than take the initiative to sell them from a mobile unit on public streets, you're comparing apples to anvils.

What the Livery Building has to do with anything is anyone's guess, but it's deep in non sequitur country. I disagree with the editors - your opinion is neither thoughtful nor well-formed.

Please let us know the name of your business so we know whom to avoid.

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I see it. Avalon Scarves.

Paul Morgan, it looks like you sell your schmattes all across the country.

Meanwhile, James can only sell his ice cream as far as his legs will pedal him.

Clearly this is an unfairness of the highest order, and James should be formulating a poorly organized attack piece for BRO to publish.

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Let's not forget the advantage that fixed-location shops have. Their customers know where to find them and when. If I like to spend my dessert dollars on James, I am out of luck unless he pedals by. I am not convinced that he has any kind of unfair advantage.

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thanks for the lead, bp. seems mr morgan also sees the raising of chickens in someones backyard more fair than free enterprise. i guess he picks his battles along political lines.

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This is exactly why capitalism is a failed economic proposition. James and Paul are both fighting the same fight as the rest of the greedy capitalists out there. The government has stepped in to protect the interests of the highest bidder instead of doing what is best for everyone. It would be great if there were a fleet of government sanctioned ice cream carts in neighborhoods throughout Buffalo instead of everyone arguing over these small sections that are profitable under the capitalist model. Wouldn't it be great if kids on Grant Street or Jefferson Avenue were able to get ice cream too? That won't happen in today's system that favors only the rich at the expense of everyone else.

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with all due respect, Heather, our best neighborhood is the West Side between Grant and Niagara... its where we spend the majority of our time.

replied to Heather
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Heather, Your still an idiot and so are all your communistic posts, just read them all, they are all exactly the same. Go to North Korea and be happy, and the offer still stands to float half the cost.

replied to Heather
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About "what's fair", I don't think anybody's saying the city's $50 fee is unfair, but the much higher extra amounts for Buffalo Place ($315) and Olmsted Parks ($500 plus 5% of sales) sound ridiculous. Those figures are from Friday's Buffalo News. James was quoted in the previous BR post as saying Olmsted demands permits be purchased for 3 year minimums.


I've been to the Hoyt Lake side of Delaware Park a few times this year and didn't see any concessions sold by anyone - not Olmsted and not any independent vendors.


What's being accomplished by Olmsted's extra fees?
Well let's see here, $500 times 0 is...ummm... then we add 5% of 0... and then add the intangible benefits of no vendors unfairly competing with.... well, with nobody... and icing on the cake is that park visitors aren't burdened with the opportunity to voluntarily buy an ice cream from James or potentially a cold drink or maybe a hot dog from any other vendors. Brilliant.

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Ideally, City Hall should make the citywide fee valid on all public land and not allow any further restrictions by Olmsted or Buffalo Place except for a very small perimeter (not 3 blocks) around concerts.

If they won't go that far, at least they should stop allowing any extra charge from Olmsted or Buffalo Place to exceed the $50 citywide fee, and not allow any sales percent fee (accounting hassle) like Olmsted charges, remove the 3-year minimum which James said Olmsted imposes, and allow for 1-stop permit purchase. That would be a $150/year for everywhere, or any combination of $50 each for downtown, Olmsted, or elsewhere. And they should allow that to be purchased for any individual months at $12.50/month.


Maybe quite a variety of vendors might do business in Buffalo if the fee barrier is reasonable and if they could easily get a permit for certain months appropriate to what they're selling. (Such as maybe a hot chocolate vendor outside Fountain Plaza ice rink, etc.) Obviously health dept. permits are always a separate issue.


I just looked at what some other blogs are saying about all this. Two posts much better than Morgan's above are:


Buffalog
http://buffalog.blogspot.com/2009/06/its-about-growing-pie-stupid.html


Buffalo Pundit
http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/9272

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Here’s some scenes of street vendors on the 16th Street Mall in Downtown Denver, photographed just a few minutes ago. Wonder what Main Street in downtown Buffalo looks like right now?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2558b5y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2pydrop.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/20u8m4i.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/nppgjl.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/kd7no7.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/14l7te1.jpg

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I wonder why my comment was deleted. I posted links to images taken this morning of several street vendors in a VERY active downtown Denver, just a few blocks from the hotel where Congress for the New Urbanism 17 is taking place.

[note- fixed]

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just got this by e-mail. a petition to request a revision of city vendor permits

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/revise-free-enterprise

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I'm sure that for every "very active" downtown teeming with colorful street vendors, there is a book of regulations and a fee for permits. I doubt that other cities let people set up willy nilly with whatever it is they have to sell wherever they choose to sell it. Oh, I'm sure that most of those other cities have things figured out better than Buffalo does, but all the same, I do believe permits are needed. As a person who does art festivals in several states, I am well aware of the nit picky requirements in other places. I get that info with my acceptance letter and I grumble, but I do what I'm told. I get the permit, I pay the fee, I get a tax number on and on and on. It's what a business person does. Now, I love the ice cream cart. I love how festive it looks. It makes me happy to see it. I want the city to figure it out and come up with appropriate regs for mobile vendors. Simple. Just do it. I just don't think it's appropriate to expect that this one particular business person should be given a "pass" or be portrayed as a young entrepreneur being kept from growing his business. Look at it from the viewpoint of the business people who work every day on the streets he wishes to sell from. They pay their dues every day to do business there. As for the festivals, we all pay dearly for a teeny piece of the street from which to sell our work for 2 days. And there is tough competition to be allowed into many of them. Should a mobile vendor be able to drive up to my 10X10 space and proceed to take customers from me? Of course not. Can I pitch my little white tent in the middle of Delaware Avenue and sell stuff whenever I want? No. It's all the same. The charm and ambition or sheer cheekiness of the folks involved should not influence the appropriate regulation of his business. The City should work out a better plan, yes, but James also needs to accept the realities. We all want to go where the people are, James. I wish you luck.

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if your looking for James to make a difference for everyone, sign the petition above your post. at least read it.

replied to ArtGypsy
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No one, including James himself, expects exemption from permits. What we have instead is governmental and quasi-governmental agencies all demanding permits and complicating the process. In James' case, Buffalo Place says the City is the permitting agency and the City says that Buffalo Place is the permitting agency.


And then there is Olmsted Parks. I appreciate that the parks should not be overrun with vendors; it'd be a drag if in Delaware Park amidst the plantings and footpaths there was a sunglasses vendor, then a greeting card vendor, then a keychain vendor, then a cell phone vendor, ad nauseum.


But there could be a designated zone (say, only paved areas) where folks like James could work.

replied to ArtGypsy
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I'm all for street merchants and more mobile vendors, but those pictures from Denver sure don't sell me. Looks like a junk fest.

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help change the system for everyone including the onsite vendors

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/revise-free-enterprise

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Thanks for fixing the post!

A sincere question: how come James chas so much difficulty selling his ice cream off a bike, but Mister Softee doesn't seem to have the same barriers?

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I read Mr. Morgan's comments twice just to try to follow his arguments. It doesn't make much sense to me. I don't want to pick it apart, but it is in the least not convincing.

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I don't understand why James is concerned with a $500 yearly fee from Olmstead. There are playgrounds there, with yes, tons of kids. Olmstead, creates and maintains an environment, that attracts throngs of people (customers), and James has to pay $42 a month, and 5% of (reported) sales. That does not seem unreasonable to me, expecially when the money he does pay, goes to maintaining the parks that attract the people he sells to.
If he wants to roll down Elmwood during the Elmwood Festival, that spends thousands and thousands to attract all those people, shouldn't he have to pay for that? Just like all the other food vendors, who cough up $900 (I believe) to sell their wares for just two days. And the money those vendors give to the Elmwood Festival goes to creating a great environment to attract the throngs of customers that make that $900 event fee worth it.
I have been upset with James in the past as he sold his ice cream in front of the same space I was trying to sell ice cream out of. Paying $1600 a month, I thought, it was a little bad form to roll up, for a permit of $50/year, and sell ice cream in front a business selling ice cream.
I like his idea and wish him the best of luck. I, too, have had grueling sessions with the city permit office, which was totally confusing, expensive, and mismanaged, but I don't think you should begrudge Olmstead it's $500 because of that.

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Regarding Olmsted, competition with what?


ToTheTable, Have you seen any food or drink of any kind being sold in any Olmsted city parks this year - by anyone, Olmsted or anybody else?


I haven't noticed any. Has anyone? Maybe they've set the $500 permit fee so high that nobody's willing to pay it. $42/month is a misleading way to look at it. Most months in Buffalo the parks don't have many people, so if $500 is divided by a relevant number of months it's a lot higher per month. Also, James said they were demanding a 3-year permit purchase. What's the sense of that except to set the barrier so high it even further reduces chances of any vendors wanting to be there.


Vendor permit fees Olmsted is collecting are apparently a negligible part of the park maintenance revenue (if the permit revenue exists at all - if there's no vendors there's no fees being collected and thus it isn't paying for anything).

replied to ToTheTable
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Actually, yes, I take my four girls to the park and the playground, and there was an ice cream truck driving through the park. I personally spent $9, but there was a line of people for a good half an hour, while he was parked by the rose garden. I understand a three year commitment may seem steep, but do you know why they ask for that? Those agreements, like leases benefit the seller as much as Olmstead. By getting a three year agreement you are assured that noone can kick you out of the park in a year, and you are better able to plan your business, estimating income,and what not, when you know that you have a great location locked in. Personally, if I was James, and he is planning on doing this for any length of time, I would offer Olmstead a 5-10yr deal, providing they do not allow any other ice cream vendors ( like those nasty diesel belching converted school buses.) I was just at the park with my kids and Olmstead 64, where there were thousands of hungry kids. He could have sold 10 freezers full of ice cream. I really hope he does it.

replied to whatever
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TTT>"there was an ice cream truck driving through the park"


Ok, I've never seen the truck when I've been there. I think we can agree the vast majority of the day, there's no food or drink vendors in the parks.


TTT>"a three year commitment may seem steep, but do you know why they ask for that? Those agreements, like leases benefit the seller as much as Olmstead. By getting a three year agreement you are assured that noone can kick you out of the park in a year"


If that were the win-win reason, they could offer a 3-year option and a 1-year option (as well as monthly options) and each vendor could decide what's best. I don't see your point at all about the possibility of anyone being "kicked out" the following year. For what possible reason would anyone be prevented? It's not as though these public spaces will be overwhelmed with entrepreneurial vendors to the point where there's a waiting list. This is Buffalo.


Mandating a 3-year payment looks to me like nothing but a deliberate barrier - and it's working, along with setting the fee so high that apparently very few vendors consider it worthwhile and as a result most of the time there's no concessions available in the parks.

replied to ToTheTable
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You say, "This is Buffalo." Like seeing a thriving city is beyond believability. You can point out the huge amount of people, policies, and politics, that may make that assesment true right now from a limited point of view, but a city, like a point of view, is not a stagnant thing. When you dwell on the innevitability of mediocrity, you will undoubtably see that everywhere. That is no more real than those of us who smile when we look at a flower that you might call a weed. It is a conscious choice in point of view, that directly affects others around you, and yourself.

replied to whatever
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TTT>"You say, "This is Buffalo." Like seeing a thriving city is beyond believability."


That's a nice diversion. Of the two of us, I'm the one who's favoring the idea of allowing more "thriving" by lowering the fees for people such as James and others to conduct commerce at Buffalo's parks, downtown, and waterfront. It's you who say you want the current status quo anti-thriving rules kept as is about all this.


My context saying "This is Buffalo" is clear: there's a few months of nice weather and vert slim chances of the imagined problem of there suddenly being an overwhelming crowd of vendors every few feet in those places. If it ever happened, they could adjust fees up the following year. It sounds like a far fetched excuse you made to defend their 3-year requirement and $500 fee (which is 10 times the city's $50 fee).


Under the status quo system you're defending, the usual number of food/drink vendors in most hours of most nice days at those locations: zero (except the marina has the Hatch). Great "thriving", huh?

replied to ToTheTable
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I believe so strongly in the vibrance of our city and its people. I would like vendors in the parks, and I would like them to get a fair price. Maybe $500 is a little high, but that is why I mentioned asking to be the only ice cream vendor. Our bakery is in the Bidwell farmers market and to my chagrin I find that they let 5 bakeries in. Five. $500 a year would seem fair if you knew they weren't going to let the ice cream trucks keep coming in.

replied to whatever
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I see what you mean, but the kind of business James started might also attract people who don't intend to make a career of it but just to have a temporary business (maybe people between jobs, or teachers or students during summer breaks).


It would be good to have a lower barrier of entry. We'll see what they do now that the issue has been raised.

replied to ToTheTable
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The news article was worded poorly.

I do not expect, nor am I asking to be able to freely enter festivals/special events. Obviously they use vendor fees to throw the event. I've paid my way to a few in the past.

Olmsted said they won't sell me a permit because they don't welcome the competition. Concerned with the price or not, it's simply not available.

Sorry I you feel I target your buisness, that's simply not the case, but if some kid says 'stop', am I supposed to keep going just because you're nearby? Also don't forget we most likely sell a completely different product.

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It would be great if we had more market freedom and less protected fiefdoms. Let the survival of the fittest prevail in the small consumer market. Why should the freestanding ice cream shop get all the business while a more customer centered business is shut out?

replied to creamcycle
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I didn't feel you were targeting my business. For one, it wasn't my business, I just ran it, and two, you were just riding by. My point was really your business model is fantastically inexpensive, and you stand to do VERY well. You were well within your rights to sell your ice cream on the public sidewalk, it irked me, because I was trying desperately to make a profit, so I could get paid, and with such a enormous overhead, it was very difficult. Perhaps, it was even a little envy as well. As far as Olmstead, you have gotten some great press, and fit perfectly with the parks. As I said to whatever, I would seriously consider offering them a long term deal. I know it would mean coming up with a lot of money, but I know you would make buckets of money at those parks. If Olmstead is seriously balking at your proposal to sell at the parks, there are many people who would go to bat for you with them, including myself. But what would definitely make them much easier to persuade is a pile of money, in the form of your next 3-5 years fees in advance. Again, you may not have that money, but if you really wanted it, there are many people who would lend it to you. There are always obstacles to achieving anything; my wife, Melissa and I just opened Five Points Bakery, and there were many reasons, and people and permitting agencies that said "no way", but we ignored them, our vision was so solid, it created itself, and all of those obstacles evaporated. Nobody and no amount of money, can stop the creamcycle from being in the parks or anywhere else for that matter, except you. The question is really, "What do you want?"

replied to creamcycle
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I ask myself "whats more important, James the ice cream guy who is being singled out and receiving special attention because of the unfair permits he has to pay. (which hot dog sellers have to do as well) or absentee landlords, drug use and the well being of the neighborhood I live in." To me its simple, suck it up, pay the permits that everyone else does and get on with your life. Hot dog venders have the same short season, pay the same permits. I think we are all giving this to much attention while there are more important issues at hand.

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martin>"Why should one person have to pay X anount for a festival permit or whatever, yet you do not?"


It sounds like that comment is misinterpreting the issue.


jolopy>"I ask myself "whats more important, James the ice cream guy who is being singled out and receiving special attention because of the unfair permits he has to pay. (which hot dog sellers have to do as well) or absentee landlords, drug use and the well being of the neighborhood I live in." ...there are more important issues at hand."


Absentee landlords and drug use? I've never understood the kind of logic that says "Well, since there's bigger more complex important problems A, B, and C that aren't being solved, then the public should pay no attention to smaller quality-of-life issues X, Y, or Z."


If the standard for ever questioning anything in Buffalo is what jolopy's implying that it must address big important problems like absentee landlords or drug use... well, then I suppose a lot fewer things will ever be questioned.

replied to jolopy
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I see what your saying but it should be simple to say " if your going to sell something you pay for a permit" I only mentioned this bc I believe these major obstacles were more important because they allow for a safer neighborhood which encourages businesses like james. I see hundreds of kids running around the area west of richmond but are many of the ares safe enough for James to ride his cart without ending up walking home with out it?

replied to whatever
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thinking about it, permits are permits, deal with it. Why should one person have to pay X anount for a festival permit or whatever, yet you do not? Paul, *****y or not has made some very valid points.

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I think considering the REI's neighborhoods is always necessary.
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If not for the absentee owners (REIs) and their drug- ingesting tenants, where only his $50 permit is needed, James and his crew could rake it in bigtime on as many residential streets as they could pedal from May to October...
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When I first read here about The Ice Creamcycle Dude, (as James is now known,) I thought James meant to continue pedaling only through residential neighborhoods in fairly safe areas (in nice weather conditions.)
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In that case, I wondered how he would be able to compete with large, sheltered ice cream truck drivers (whom kids can hear coming long before they appear).
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I thought James was fully aware of how unsafe a cyclist would be on an open cycle in the Rei's neighborhoods--if he would have enough of a profit margin without having to go all that far afield from fairly safe areas.
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Besides wondering how his cyclists would/do restock while en route, I was surprised that James intended to be everywhere competing against every form of vending including shops--I wonder if now he realizes how few areas are safe for guys on bikes with obviously full money belts--did he change original neighborhoods-only plans because he now feels safer where there are guaranteed crowds?...

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I would like my permit costs, rent and start up costs reduced too. Do you know that utilities ask for 3 months advance payment and keep it for over 2 years? Rent is first and last, sign permits in the city are outrageous, licenses are expensive, etc. etc. It is expensive to do business in WNY, deal with it. The costs from Olmsted seem cheap when you consider the costs of selling from a store, which can only sell ice cream for 6 months a year anyway. I would meet with the Olmsted park people immediately. It will cost you more, so you raise the prices 10 cents, like everyone else. This is a molehill made into a mountain.

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i will not raise my prices.

The parks arent the goldmine you guys think it is.

replied to DJB
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DJB>"Do you know that utilities ask for 3 months advance payment and keep it for over 2 years? Rent is first and last,"


Again, the difference is that the parks and the sidewalks downtown and near the water are all owned by the taxpayers. Comparisons to utility deposits and building rentals are way off base.


DJB>"It is expensive to do business in WNY, deal with it."


Well, that speaks for itself. If DJB ever runs for political office with that platform, I'd bet he or she would win in a landslide and I'm not being sarcastic. The business-hostile attitude is common around here.


And yes, in the scheme of things this issue is a molehill - as is pretty much every issue that ever comes up. That's reality - a lot more molehills than mountains.

replied to DJB
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James, if you happen to be on the west side this evening, the Cottage District has a meeting at 7PM at 372 Connecticut (next to the Corner Store) -- swing by!

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Is the issue so much about the cost of the permits or the constraints on where he is allowed to sell his products? The cost is low relatively speaking but I think it's absurd to deny him access to sell on public property so long as he does have a vending permit. If there are no rules or laws on the books for his unique venture than I suppose it is only fair to adjust the permitting to fit his model. After all he is being progressive and that should be supported, I'm not saying he should have to pay any less just that the regulations should be adjusted to fit mobile vending. Perhaps other mobile vendors would start up if there were regulations that applied to them. I would love to see a pizzacycle roll down my street one day!

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@brownteeth:
PIZZACYCLE! YES!

replied to brownteeth
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I'm going to ignore the negative blog post that started this whole conversation.

However, James, I just bought a house on Colvin and I see you dreamcycle by my new place and it makes me smile. I'm happy I live on a street where I get to see you peddling away on a regular basis. What you are doing is wonderful for the community and I wish you a ton of success. You add to the list of reason why I love living in the city.

I wish the orignal Buffalo Rising post would have been more positive. I love reading about great things happening in our city.

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Welcome to the neighborhood!

replied to HeartBuffalo
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Thanks! I'm excited about bringing another positive attitude to the community.

replied to Armchair MBA
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In NYC, a pushcart permit can be traded or sold much like a taxi medallion and the going rate for Manhattan is $45,000-50,000 (cash only). Care to step up to the big leagues, James?

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Pushcarts in NYC used to work the same way as taxi medallions, but they switched to a different system in the 1990s -- no more trading/selling of individual permits -- when the city sought to reduce the number of carts on the streets of Manhattan to 3,000. Individuals apply/renew based on availability of permits.


Parks and the spaces in front of certain institutions are issued based on bids. For example, the two infamous pushcarts on either side of the steps at the Metropolitan Museum pay over $500,000 per year for the permit.


My guess is that James would choose a different line of work if he had $500,000 laying around.

replied to sonyactivision
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You're right! I should have mentioned that those are prices in the black market where permits are traded and often involving I.D. theft...

replied to PaulBuffalo
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What permits does Mr. Softy get. They drive allover the city in decrypted looking vans where the people are…

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