Regional March 9, 2009 12:28 PM

High Speed Rail: All Aboard!

High Speed Rail: All Aboard!

Fly New York.  According to BR commenters, there are a lot of pros and cons to high speed rail development.  The pros would involve jobs in the short term and a solid transportation alternative and greater connectivity in the long term.  With a push for high speed rail across the country, is this something we want to be left out of?

Just today, Governor David Paterson issued yet another statement calling for high speed rail, reiterating a plan posed by President Barack Obama, and of course, Assemblyman Sam Hoyt is right on the bandwagon with them.

HSR press 3-9-09.jpg

York State Department of Transportation (NYSDOT) Commissioner Astrid C. Glynn  said, "The State Rail Plan provides a contemporary blueprint for managing and improving New York's railroad infrastructure, an integral part of our transportation network of highways, bridges, transit systems, ports and airports. This far-reaching plan outlines how to utilize existing resources most efficiently and positions us to improve mobility and connectivity across the State by creating a network that makes moving people and goods on rail a truly viable alternative."

The Plan as presented by Paterson and Glynn outlines priorities for funding consideration from the $9.3 billion dedicated for Intercity Rail in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the reauthorization of the Federal Surface Transportation Act which is due October 1, 2009 and for the development of the next State transportation plan, which will succeed the current plan following the 2009-10 State Fiscal Year.

The plan calls for the following:

 

·     Doubling the number of intercity rail passengers along New York's three major corridors:           New York City to Albany, Albany to Niagara Falls and Albany to Montreal, as well as strategies to increase reliability on all three corridors;

·     Providing frequent and convenient passenger rail service connecting cities across the State as an energy and time-saving alternative to driving or flying, helping to reduce congestion on highways and at airports. Rail plan goals include:

 

·   Achieving on-time performance of at least 95 percent between Albany and New York City;

·   Improving rail service between Albany and Niagara Falls, with connections in Utica, Syracuse and Rochester. The Plan includes a Third Track Initiative, which aims to establish a dedicated third track for high speed passenger rail service across Upstate from Niagara Falls to Albany with a potential for reducing the travel time by 2 hours or more;

·   Shortening the travel time for rail service between Albany and Montreal. Currently, trains take about eight hours to make that trip. The Plan's goal is to reduce that time to 6.5 hours; and

·   Establishing new passenger service, where viable, such as between Saratoga and Albany, Niagara Falls and Buffalo, and Binghamton and New York City;

 

·     Increasing freight rail usage by 25 percent to reduce growth of truck traffic and energy consumption;

·      Allowing modern freight cars to access the New York City metro area and Long Island along routes east of the Hudson River;

·      Adding at least three new intermodal facilities/inland ports across the State to serve the rapidly growing container segment of rail traffic, which will help remove long-haul trucks from highways and deliver products to consumers faster; and

·      Creating the first "green" short line fleet in the nation.

 

As a special point of interest, Central Terminal Restoration Committee President Michael Miller says he's been talking to everyone and anyone who will listen about incorporation the Central Terminal in plans for area high speed rail.  The possibility of restored use over reuse is exciting to imagine.


cent term.jpg

Bottom photo by Bella Buscarino: Buffalo Central Terminal as seen from an Amtrak train. 


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Buffalo Rising readers have been very passionate about weighing in on the issue of expanding high speed rail, as have the Citizen's for Regional Transit Committee (CRTC). Their next meeting, taking place on April 15th at noon in the Market Arcade Buil... Read More

From Albuffalonian on the high speed rail post- Well this is my first post at BR, but I figured I'd add my two cents since I live in Albany and take the train between breaks almost all the time, to come here for college.  I am new to this region b... Read More

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Not fast enough!

If high speed rail is going to be successful, it will need to compete with the Thruway. Shaving an hour off of the time it takes to get to Albany isn't going to do it.

I'm afraid that unless we get real "high speed" this will be a nice public works project, but won't amount to the kind of long term revitalization we are hoping for.

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I think to do that you have to aquire a whole new right of way between here and NYC. "Real" high speed rail would require a straighter track, new bridges and tunnels and no grade crossings. This plan uses infastructure already in place. My guess is that when gas goes back up to >$4 per gal this "diet" version of HSR will be more of a benifit to the public in the form of fuel and time savings.

replied to hamp
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I would LOVE to see trains use the Central Terminal again. However the buildings fatal flaw now as when it was new is it's location. It is too far from Downtown to be considered for the high speed rail systems regional station. That belongs downtown where taxis, busses, and hotels are concentrated. The second floor of the DL&W terminal on the riverfront would be be better suited for this. You could build a spur along seldom used Chicago St. that would run elevated up to the terminal. When passengers board, the train would back up to exchange st and resume its northbound path to Niagara Falls and beyond.

As far as freight is concerned, the land once occupied by Republic Steel would be a natural fit for an inland port for cargo continers. This property has plenty of space and is close to highways and existing rail lines.

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The BCT is a beauty, but sadly is located outside the city center. Alas, a mistake rooted in our city's inability to develop a Union Station 100 years ago still haunts us today.

In all truth the DL&W is a much better location - and we shouldnt repeat the mistakes made before. BTW - just because passenger rail used the second floor of the DL&W, doesnt mean a new incarnation has to. The first level is already @ grade, and would require no viaduct to access it.

Of course, like the New York Central did, Buffalo could maintain 2 stations on the line, one @ BCT, another @ Exchange street (historically, and the current downtown location). It just means more costs.

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This topic is informative, and,,,
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I just realized this: Every state in the union can "fly" its own State colors on its allotment of rapid transit trains! That way, observers will know what train is from where. Kids won't be counting colors or makes of cars to escape boredom, especially not on long passenger train/car trips because it won't take long to get from here to there anymore.
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Tomorrow's kids will be checking out what came from where! (I can "see" the board game now! Here it comes~There it goes. Knowing what state or country=points to scored by them that knows! (NO, wait a minute. There won't be anymore board games--it will be an online game for accumulating cash and prizes!!!
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The train in the above pic must be beautiful to observe as it is flying by! (One for NYC can be the "Graffiti Run" done up by highly paid street artists!)
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There won't be any roadside billboards anymore because who would be going slowly enough to read them, so, streaming colors on trains will be things of beauty! There won't be any stuff like on metro buses cause the colors must coincide with blurr.
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As far as the existing Dewey Thruway, for a while, until the US economy actually does start heading upward, only the wealthy will be able to afford what can move on there.
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Actually, the thruway and other "super" highways could/will be divided with high speed public transport in the center and any personal traffic happening on the two sides.
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I am curious. How will any one state stop or dictate what will be needed? Rapid RR lines will involve all the USA states--and then Canada and S. America?! And then there will be intercontinental travel to follow.
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As far as speed, that has yet to be safely determined for both rapid rail trains and private vehicles that will be going faster than most present-day transportation. What is allowed now is still in the wait-20-years-and-see-what-doesn't-kill-them-or-deafen-them stage.

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The problem with Buffalo is New York - Albany and NYC is still an absurd distance. Linking up with Toronto, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, or Columbus seems like a more effective way to consolidate; not that it would happen.
I don't know, I guess it's a start. These states are too big.

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I totally agree with you Marcus. To begin with, Western New York isn't truly "connected" with New York City. We have a better shot of knowing someone working in Toronto than knowing someone working in NYC. There was a Buffalo News Viewpoints article in September describing Buffalo as being a part of Torbuffchester. We truly are not part of the downstate way and we relate more to the Toronto area and the Midwest, than that city downstate.

The Viewpoints article pushed for strengthening our relations within our Megalopolis by building high speed rail.

Though I am unfamiliar with the status of high speed rails in Southern Ontario, I'm sure both countries can find little reason not to build these transportation ties.

replied to Marcus Booster
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I also tend to agree that 110 isn't the most optimal speed for a high speed train. Faster is better otherwise we are just building a soon to be outdated train that will become more of a joke than anything.


I love trains, and I wonder how much modifications the current ROW would need to make 150+ mph possible.


surely it doesn't need to be 150 the entire length but those long open stretches in between cities should be modified to be faster

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The news of this development is very discouraging. The purpose of high-speed rail is to offer competitive service to a destination. New York's plan of shaving an hour or two off travel times will do little to change traveler habits.


California has been planning an 800-mile, $45 billion, high-speed rail route from San Francisco to San Diego to connect a number of major cities. From the www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov website:


'The California High-Speed Train Project will procure extensively-proven high-speed train technology from Europe or Asia. There are a number of potential manufacturers worldwide and the precise type of steel-wheel-on-steel-rail trains will be decided through the state’s competitive bid process. Like the new lines being planned and built in Europe and Asia, the California High-Speed Rail Project assumes the use of the latest generation of high-speed train technology, which is capable of sustained operational speeds of over 220 mph.'


The website offers a lot of information and one example is the typical 6-hour drive, often in heavy fog, from San Francisco to Los Angeles that involves crossing two mountain areas.


Distance: 418 miles
C02 saved/trip: 312 lbs
Travel time: 2hrs, 27 minutes
Estimated cost: train @ $54, air @ $134, car @ $84.


If NY State can't provide cost and travel time advantages over car or air, high-speed rail will not achieve the ridership numbers necessary for it to be successful.

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As a member of the Empire State Passengers Assoc., you have to remember that 110mph is a good starting point. Its unrealistic to think that you're going to go from max speeds of 79mph (excpet near Albany where Amtrak does hit 90-100mph) to bullet train speeds of 180mph or more.

Belive it or not, trains, esp durning the summer are busy or even sold out. Ridership was WAY up last year, esp with high gas prices. While gas has come down, it will go up again...just give it time. The fastest scheduled time from Buffalo-depew to New York Penn is about 7h45m. This is slower than driving. HOWEVER, when you get to NY, your car is at home, where it needs to be. But even still, lots of people drive b/c they can do it in 5.5-6hours with the pedal down. Now if you can get the train down to 5 hours (buf-alb in 3 and alb to nyp in 2) you'll be ahead of even drivers.

110mph is a good solid starting point. 110 will get way more riders on the train, which generates more demand for the service and revenue. This in turns will mean futher improvements to 125 with better trainsets (tilting/faster accerating). It will a true snowball effect. I'm onboard (no pun intended).

Mike S.

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Mike S,
I'm naive. Why is it unrealistic to think that true high-speed rail (not Maglev) is not possible on a dedicated track? Do you know what are the specific obstacles are?

replied to Mike S.
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Paul,

True HSR requires ultra straight, limited grade x-ings, and flat right of way. While the current ROW is relatively straight, pretty flat, and relatively x-ing free, it isnt quite good enough for true HSR.


Also, in general HSR requires electrification. Not always, but it sure does help.


Building a new ROW from scratch would make the pricetag unattainable. If you consider the Northeast Corridor (Boston-NYC-Philly-Baltimore-DC) doesnt have that kind of ROW, it would be hard to justify that kind of expenditure here.


If im not mistaken, true HSR exceeding 125 (or was it 150?) requires a completely dedicated ROW segregated from all freight traffic.


Of course, there is an intermediate upgrade between this proposal and HSR. It would be much like the current NE corridor, using tilt trains and electrification that could bump up the times. I would have like for this effort to include such infrastructure, but this is much better than the current level of service.


replied to PaulBuffalo
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One of the reasons for the location of the Central Terminal is that it needed to serve passengers connecting to/from Niagara Falls & Canada, as well as to/from the midwest. Just west of the Terminal the Chicago-bound tracks split from the Falls-bound tracks. With service moved from the Terminal, now half the trains cannot be boarded anywhere in city limits. Service needs to return to the Terminal.


It will still make sense to have a station downtown, but it needs to interconnect to MetroRail (and add local rail transit between downtown & the Terminal). The original Bass Pro plan included that intermodal station, and I'd say it's high time to talk about putting that back into the Canalside plans.


Although the immediate "third track" project will not allow true high-speed (above 110 MPH) travel, it will still make all the difference. The speed, reliability, and frequency of service will immediately make a hyper-leap back into the realm where it is a viable and valued alternative means of getting around. What that will do is make rail -- for the first time in decades -- a useful and desirable mode for WNY'ers going to other upstate cities and regions, and even outside. What this will do is immediately increase the critical mass of users, and change habits, to the point where there will be a sustained, critical mass of support for increased investments in service and infrastructure. That will create the now-missing middle step between where we are and true high-speed service in the (hopefully not-too-distant) future.


Slaughter & Hoyt are clearly on the right track.

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PaulBuffalo,

I should have clarified. Its unrealistic from a $$$ perspective. Above 110mph, the costs start to skyrocket. Not that 110mph is cheap, but going 150-180 is a whole other ball game.

Off the top of my head:
-Speeds above 110mph through to 125mph mean all grade crossings would need gates that actually prevent a car from going around them (this is per FRA-Federal Railroad Administration). So instead of properly functioning gates, now were talking about barrier systems that would make it impossible for a car to get around. Above 125mph were talking total elimination of grade crossings. So you either close roads (which pisses off people) or start building bridges (for cars) or bridges for trains (cars go under). That starts getting real expensive real quick.

-Faster trains require straighter track. Properly banked curves can sustain 110mph comfortably without a person really knowing the train is turning. The same curve won't support 150mph. That means chainging the route/buying up land to straighten the track. $$$$

-Current Amtrak Diesel Enginges that run in New York State are "geared" for 110mph. I'm sure more horespower and gearing can get up to 125. But 150mph is acela style electric engines...which means electric lines from buffalo to north of new york. Yep, more money.

The list can go on, but I need to work..lol. All that being said, faster trains means more riders. More riders = a greater benefit to the public and more revenue. Get to 110mph, then start planning on streches of 125, faster enginges that can accerate a train TO 110 or 125, therby saving more time, tilting trainsets to take curves faster, etc.

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RaChaCha,


There are locations closer to downtown that could serve the Empire Corridor, a TO-Buffalo connection, and the Ohio Hub plan.


Check out Exchange @ Hamburg


And a thru connection to TO @ the DL&W is possible by connecting the terminal to the existing ROW via the skyway (at least directly under it).


Dont get me wrong I do love that old BCT, but I hate to repeat the mistakes of the past. Considering how vital a downtown station is to a successful levels of ridership (and economic development), it seems to be an unworthy gamble.


Would a Buffalo to TO (or Syracuse or Albany) connection be as fruitful if a commuter was left downtown or @ BCT? One of the selling points of rail is downtown to downtown service. Why squander that advantage?

Remember, this kind of funding (or political effort) does not come along too often. It would be ashame to mis invest - just look at the Albany station.

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Mike and Al,
Thank you both for the info. It's unfortunate that NYS isn't willing to tackle the problem in its entirety. Folks traveling from Buffalo to Albany may consider the rail alternative if the ticket price is competitive, but JetBlue will still be the best way from Buffalo to NYC.

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I actually think that NYS IS tackling the problem head on. Spending 50billion to get maglev or 200+mph trains is a boondogle. What if the riders don't show up. Steady improvements is the way to go right now. Get to 110mph and the ridership should surge. People take the train now. If it was faster and ontime 95% of the time vs. 75%, MORE will take it.

As far as Jet Blue being better.....don't forget about Rochester and Syracuse. With new 110mph service, NYP will be like 3 hours from Syracuse. Thats huge for that market. You can't fly from Syrcause to New York and make it into the city in 3 hours. Not without getting dumped at JFK. The train doesn't just service buffalo, but all those stops along the way. By the time you reach Albany, its busy.

Say you can go Buffalo to New York City in 5 hours on Amtrak. You can really drive up to the station, pick up prepaid tickets (like you have to do with an airline) and get on the train. I do it all the time. Show up 10 mins before it's scheduled to leave.

Try that at an airport. You need an hour ahead of time from your car in the parking lot.

So 1 hour at the airport, 1.5 hours flying/taxing to gate. Now the best part. You're at JFK, Newark, or Laguardia. All of those destinations are 50 dollar cab rides and around an hour into the city with traffic.

So if it 3.5hours via airline to Manhattan or 5 hours on a train...you might just find a lot of people willing to give up 1.5hours of their life not to be ontop of a stranger on a plane.

jet blue

tack

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Mike S, you raise good points and I think high-speed rail can really benefit Syracuse.


As far as the trip into Manhattan from the airports, it's much easier and quicker to take the various transit systems. JFK is just a MetroCard away.


I hope Albany is having as much debate on this topic as all of us thus far on this website.

replied to Mike S.
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Paul, i don't mean to argue, but its more than a metrocard away in terms of ease of use. It requires getting to the monorail, then to the subway. Last time I did it I had to transfer at Jamica and then get into the city. Its definetly not a 5 min ride...more like 55 mins.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Yes, but compared to a cab into Manhattan, it's cheaper and just as fast (or faster). I did the drill routinely when I lived in Manhattan.

replied to Mike S.
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Even if you get the train time to being close to car time, the time to New York will still favor cars over trains because of the time it takes to drive to the station (wherever it ends up), time to park the car, time to get your tickets, etc.

This probably adds up to another 1 hour (at least at the Buffalo end). People will most likely choose to get in their car (whenever they want to), and head for the Thruway.

I love the idea of high speed rail, but I think we're overselling it, if we can't get the speeds faster.


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Really? If the train and driving end up being really close, would you rather drive (i.e. work) or let someone else do it? I'd rather someone else do it. Plus, most people go to Manhattan. Do you really want a car in the city?

replied to hamp
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I would love to take the train. And no, I don't want to have my car in Manhattan. But I think we're fooling ourselves if we think there is going to be a stampede to a train that takes about the same time for car travel to NYC.

Unless the trains come very frequently, and the prices are competitive, I believe people will opt for cars over trains.

The wild card here is transportation costs. Over time the cost advantages of train travel (as well as environmental costs) could make train travel much more attractive. That would be great.

I'd be in favor of raising the state and federal gasoline tax to help construct a better (faster) high speed train.

replied to Mike S.
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Al, I hear what you're saying, but one of the key pieces is also the connection to the midwest (or, closer to home, Dunkirk, Erie, etc.), which can be serviced from the Terminal. What makes sense to me is to consolidate all passenger rail service at the Terminal (for which it was designed and located), have a rail transit link between the Terminal and downtown, and an intermodal connecting station downtown for people to move seamlessly to and from MetroRail. BTW, let me make my first prediction: when passenger rail service is consolidated at the Terminal, folks in Depew will squawk over any subsequent proposal to abandon the station there. You watch...

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RaChaCha: Do you mean people in Depew will miss the AMTRAK? If you do, then, on a personal level, I heard the squawking from the homeowners who were to become too-up-close-and-too-personally near the rails of the proposed and then installed AMTRAK--not to mention an attached suburb of Buffalo wanting to stay seperate from Buffalo. So then, do you mean that now Depew would miss AMTRAK?
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MARCUS BOOSTER: When high speed takes full effect, and it has to, it will spread all across the USA and Canada. It will be a national and international event under national and international controls, not individual states. It will also shrink big cities away down. I can't imagine the conversations that far a(future) for something that feels almost incomprehensible now.


replied to RaChaCha
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Why should the hub for RT be downtown?
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Downtown Buffalo and areas around the Peace Bridge already are and will remain congested well into the future.
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High speed travelers will feel hampered enough with stopovers along the RT routes. (That is one nice stopover station in Orchard Park off of route 277 and it includes the tracks--and it is ready to reuse).
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RT passengers won't want to also be dealing with vehicle or pedestrian traffic congestion downtown. That would be why they chose high speed to began with!
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For all that I feel there soon will be rapid transit through-out the US and Canada, when it comes to crossing borders, flying across the border won't happen. Instead, that will be done separately.
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I can't imagine Canada allowing trains to run freely across the border And I also can't imagine why any USAers think the US should.
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Boarding to go to Canada would have to be in the US--the same happening in Canada to come to the US. That would mean needing a separate US system to enter Canada. Canada would be doing the same on their end. The phrase "separate but equal" will take on a cross-border meaning of its brand new own!
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Besides that the CT can have beautiful rooms for people traveling anywhere; rooms that would have the greatest, farthest-reaching views from its upper floors, The Central Terminal already has many acres of space for long-term parking.
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And, as far as entering Canada by first going through a form of "customs", that would mean going to the still uncongested area of The CT where there is plenty of room for folks to be pre-checked in peaceful bliss, then board another nonstopping slower train or shuttle bus that would take them only to the US border.
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And also, by re-routing those destined for Canada, passengers who are continuing on within the US would not have to deal with more extractions from their need to speed.
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When the Canadian-bound persons in the US reach the border, they would then be prepared to move more smoothly on to a train or bus TO Canada; from which they would then be OKed IN Canada to get on Canada's own high speed rail.
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(I don't want to get into reasons for or against another span, but another span just for the prequalified-to-be-there rapid transitees would be a nice decongestant.)

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Crisa, you seem like a nice person but I confess that I rarely understand your comments. I'm flummoxed by your statement that '... flying across the border won't happen. Instead, that will be done separately.' What, specifically, could possibly cause you to arrive at that conclusion? Can you cite any article anywhere that lends credence to your statement? I assume you make all this stuff up, but I may be wrong so I thought I would ask.

replied to Crisa
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As far as I can discern, I don't know you, so, I have to think that you are easily "flummoxed". Your two negative statements in one paragraph do not inspire an explanatory reply.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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That sounds like a round about way of saying you're making these ramblings up.

replied to Crisa
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The News is reporting a new downtown station would be constructed. I don't understand the 'everything must be downtown' mentality. Any plans that involves backing up a train after a Buffalo stop to continue on its journey is a non-starter. My vote is for Central Terminal with light rail to downtown and the airport. Trains could then head west to Cleveland/Chicago or north to Niagara Falls/Toronto. Whatever is planned downtown won't match what we already have at the Central Terminal. This is the chance to restore it.

State unveils $10.7 billion plan for high-speed rail service
By Tom Precious

ALBANY -- The state wants to spend $10.7 billion over the next 20 years improving rail service in New York, including shaving two hours off the trip between Albany and Buffalo.

But the ambitious plan, which includes new train stations in downtown Buffalo and Niagara Falls, is far from certain because it relies heavily on money from Washington. And New York is facing stiff competition from other areas of the nation wanting to get into the high-speed rail business.

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Yeah, I saw that mention of a new downtown station in Buffalo and the Falls. The one at the falls is already, I believe, in the planning stages:
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/niagaracounty/story/600056.html


I'm assuming/hoping that the one in Buffalo will be an intermodal station to connect to MetroRail -- something that would enhance, rather than detract from, a new central role for the Central Terminal.

replied to WCPerspective
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WCP --- It is the reason that NYS likes to waste money.

replied to WCPerspective
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BCT would make a great junction where T0-NYC trains cross paths with NYC-Midwest lines. A light rail shuttle from the terminal to downtown would be a no-brainier. Imagine if the upper floors of BCT were turned into an awesome Art Deco hotel.

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And a word on the Central Terminal...kind of a train wreck (pun intended) of an idea. Buffalo-Depew has the burbs covered...but the Terminal is kind of in a no-mans land. You still want people/travelers to be able to get to downtown. And as much of a dump exchange street is...it is in the center of downtown. (exchange should be rebulit/relocated as an intermodal hub with the NFTA light rail and inner harbor...but that takes foresight).

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I disagree strongly with the need for a rail station downtown!

First, had the Central Terminal been located downtown then it would have been demolished as the DL&W and Lehigh stations had been demolished.

Second, a downtown renaissance comes from density and a rail station downtown would make about as much sense as putting the airport downtown because of its convenience and traffic count.

Third, Transit Road&Galleria&Airport have large enough population centers to support a light rail connection. Further downtown, ECC downtown and Larkin District are growing districts to support a light rail connection. In my opinion, a reactivated Central Terminal is not essential to a downtown renaissance however an airport light rail connection and a reactivated Central Terminal could lead to a full long term renaissance of the eastside with a significant number of locations for inexpensive ParknRides saving downtown from building parking garages and dead space for its growing office and government districts.

THE GROWTH OF PARKNRIDE, THE GROWTH OF A FULLY OCCUPIED TOWER, THE GROWTH OPPORTUNITY FOR OFFICES AND RENTALS TO BE BUILT ON THE LAND SURROUNDING THE STATION IS SIGNIFICANT.

Fourth, while the DL&W is great...it lacks the Passenger Concourse..which if rebuilt would provide a great link extendding the wharf/canal district all the way to michigan. However, trains at a downtown station new or existing would need to pull in and back out (NOT GOOD FOR HIGH SPEED RAIL)

DOWNTOWN CAN DO WITHOUT A RAIL MULTI-MODAL STATION. HOWEVER THE EASTSIDE CANNOT! PUT THE RAIL AND BUS-STATION COMBO AT THE CENTRAL TERMINAL AND INVEST THE MONEY IN THE AIRPORT CORRIDOR LIGHT RAIL!

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getting from the CT to downtown would be a non-issue if we had a light rail link to downtown. There have been many times I have flown or took a train into cities, and while it is nice to be in downtown right away, it isn't necessary.


Remember the CT is what? 1, 2 miles from downtown... you can SEE downtown from the second floor and maybe even from the parking platform. That's close enough, as long as there is a good, robust system to take one into downtown whenever someone might get into the station.


It would be what? 2, 3 minutes. And a transfer without even having to leave the building... Maybe not even have to leave the platforms. Easy, easy.

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Mike S. Funny you should mention the intermodal hub.. that was in the Inner Harbor project from the beginning... it was also the first thing cut out of the plan by the powers that be.


Yeah the foresight was there... at least a 5 year old idea at this point. The politicians and Benderson quickly took that away.

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"Funny you should mention the intermodal hub.. that was in the Inner Harbor project from the beginning... it was also the first thing cut out of the plan by the powers that be."

If Im not mistaken wernt they supposed to use the now demolished Aud loby for the new train station? Its too bad they had to clear that out for a bait and tackle store that now looks like wont be built.

replied to Sean Brodfuehrer
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Someone asked me about why I felt the 300+ speed of trains is too fast since planes in the sky move even faster. I forgot to answer: How fast is too fast for our ears and inner parts in a rapidly moving train at ground level where gravity's pull works at its best?
~~~~~
Airplanes' compartments are pressurized. In areas where high speed trains run faster than, say, 80mph, are the train cars also pressurized?

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Crisa, that was my remark about airplanes.

Once again you're demonstrating your poor understanding of all of life's things. Airplanes are pressurized because of altitude, not speed.

Please someone from bro ban Crisa, or impose a 1 hour delay between comments, or at least a maximum length of comment for Crisa!

replied to Crisa
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My trip on the Eurostar between Paris and London was one of the coolest experiences of my life. Watching the landscape flow by in huge panoramic view was breathtaking. The restaurant car had windows almost the entire length of the train car... that was a view.

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Right now, trains go slower than 50mph because they share the single trackage with freight!

Once the Empire Line between Buffalo and Albany had 4 parallel tracks...which are now occupied by the I-90 thruway.

Today only one of the 4 exists. Building the second track and dedicating it is the only solution to undoing the damage from the past. The current plan is in stages.

Stage 1 is to build the 2nd track dedicated to passenger rail allowing sspeed to double from 50mph to 110mph (the limit for a certain rail speed class).

Stage 2 is an upgrade to 150mph

Stage 3 is a 200mph+

We must remember that this proposal wouldnt even be flying if it wasnt for federal money paying for it...and the reason that they are choosing 110mph 2nd dedicated trackage is because it can be completed within Obamas 1st administration thus assuring 100% federal funding and NYS not getting stuck with Obama losing 2nd term and financing the 2nd half of the project. Very shrewed but also very prudent since NYS is nearly as bankrupt as California.

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If this does happen then I would look for Massachusetts to step up to the plate in connecting Boston and Western Mass to the Empire Line. I think Buffalo may possibly gain more from connecting to Boston than to NYC.

This could also open talks towards replacing the International RailRoad crossing which needs to be replaced or reactivating the rail deck of the Whirlpool Bridge or even adding a new rail crossing.....I would look for Ontarios reaction to such a massive investment in Highspeed Rail across the Border.

Pittsburgh PA I understand has an active High Speed Rail Program and Ohio also has an active program. Ohio is particularly important since Obama is proposing massive spending to upgrade Chicagos Freight and Rail bottlenecks. Fixes and upgrades for Chicago should translate well for Indiana and Ohio (which is good for Buffalo)!

In other words....there is the potential that if Buffalo to Albany upgrades with a massive public investment then there may be a ripple effect as other states try to complement it for their own competitive and stimulus purposes!

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QueenCity,

You have some good posts but misinformation about the empire line. The current line is EX-NYC. You're right, there were 4 tracks from buffalo to albany, but the ROW (right of way) is still the same today. The I-90 crosses the tracks in areas buy has NEVER replaced any of the right of way. Basically we have 2 tracks from buffalo to Schenectady and there is room for 2 more..without buying land...unless you want to start straigtening the curved parts.

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I always spoke as though it excluded nyc.

From what I read there is only 1 track...but 2 with the bypasses. The proposal is to keep those 2nd bypasses and add a dedicated 2nd track

If Im wrong then lets get the truth out there

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Are there nationwide standards for high-speed rail or will each state determine its own standards and choose different manufacturers?

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I'll all be for it IF AND ONLY IF the politicians pump money into the Central Terminal for the Buffalo hub. If they build another station Downtown then forget it. I know a lot of politicians read this blog and I hope everyone that reads this heed this simple advice. Reuse of beautiful buildings that were built for the original purposes CAN BE used again.

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Here is a great website of the Acela Express on wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela_Express. There is a stop in NYC. If there is a high speed from Bflo to Albany and then down to NYC it would be the first connection on the high speed rail. You would be able to get down to Washington or Boston in 7-8 hours from Bflo. This is exciting.

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I have a sentimental desire to see Central Terminal used for its original purpose and the building would be a grand entrance for any traveler entering Buffalo. That would be such a great psychological boost for the area.


With that said, I would like to see a number of plans that outline costs and the positives/negatives of each scenario; then, have public forums in each affected city to gauge public opinion.


The worst thing Albany could do is shovel one plan down the throats of residents (even though it's something they seem to enjoy on a daily basis). I hope Joshua is correct when he says that politicians read this blog.

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Paul - I KNOW they do.

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Make no mistake about this...high speed passenger rail for Buffalo is a major infrastructure initiative to which Buffalo is the MAJOR recipient.

Why? Buffalo was a city built on transportation and transhipment for both people and freight. Aside from the increase in passenger rail and closer links with other cities making Buffalo both an AIR and a RAIL hub (now we need to make Buffalo a light rail hub).

Removing passenger rail to a dedicated track will allow freight capacity to increase significantly boosting Buffalo as a transhipment center for rail freight and truck freight.

Increased import/export, increased transhipment, increased trade and transportation is going to invigorate Buffalo for warehouse, distribution, inventory management, light assembly, customer service, etc industries.

More than many other this is going to have major economic impact for our city.....embrace it. Its about time.

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trains need to be cheaper. Why take a train when you can drive???? I took a train to albany and it cost me 122 dollars! If i had a car, i would have driven for probably 80 dollars which is a BIG difference!
Yay for highspeed rail!
The more mass transit options, the better!

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Do it out of the BCT. People will drive to the terminal, wherever it is, and park then ride. The airport isn't in Downtown either, is it? yet people drive to BNIA and park their cars there. If you do HSR Downtown, that means building a suitable amount of (quelle horreur!) parking. The BCT is way better tracked and better suited to massive parking development. It obviously can accomodate light rail and buses that can serve the city residents. Doing a hub-to-hub mass transit route to the DL&W terminal makes far more sense and opens (finally!) a corridor of opportunity from Downtown to the BCT and its surrounding neighborhoods. The speeds can be gradually increased as new money becomes available to remove all crossings and build continuous rail segments. California won't build their HSR system all at once and NYS won't either. But you have to start now, with the bone structure...and the ideas.

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QueenCity:

See: http://www.cdta.org/hsr/Executive_Summary-Low-Res-1-11-06.pdf

Scroll to page 13. This graphic illustrates current speeds, tracks and average current use (as of 06).

Things to note. There is a bottle neck of one track near schendatdy (which causes BS), and there is *some* grater than 79mph track. However, its limited and really doesn't save much time.

Let us all remember, its about getting the slowest up to speed first..that is where the best gains are time wise. If you had 200 mph track, going 220 isn't going to save but a few minutes. But uprading 79 to 110 means an hour or two over the course of Buffalo to Albany.

Something to note as well. Buffalo Exchange to Niagara Falls is ONLY 60 mph. There is some alignment issues in N.Tonanwada that will never allow more than 60mph. But most of the run is straight so going from 60 to 110 is almost doubling the speed!

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Mike,


I believe that the monies for double tracking the section near Schenectady is committed. That one improvement will pay great dividends.


Sadly, the improvement was held up for years due to tax disputes btwn CSX and NYS.


____


BuffaloBobby,


Amtrak does operate a train like that from the DC area to Florida. Its non stop and very popular. There had been another from Louisville during the private incarnation, but, due to many factors, it was not as successful and the route was discontinued.

replied to Mike S.
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Trains back at the Central Terminal justifies the extension of the airport corridor light rail.

Transit/Lancaster, Airport, Galleria, Central Terminal, Larkin District, ECC Downtown and Downtown. Make the Central Terminal a transportation hub like the others and you will see that section of the eastside gentrify and redevelop.

The Amtrack is sold out during periods....and it only goes 50mph, increasing the speed and the number of trains will only increase the passenger list.

MOVING PASSENGER RAIL OFF THE FREIGHT RAIL TRACKS ALONE MAKES IT WORTH THE BILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENT!

OTHER CITIES ALONG THE EMPIRE CORRIDOR WILL ONLY GET THE ECONOMIC IMPACT FROM THE INVESTMENT OF THE TRACK BUT THEY ARE MERE STOPS. BUFFALO IS A DESTINATION AND AS A DESTINATION IT WILL BE THE RECIPIENT/CONCENTRATION OF THE BILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN ITS OWN TRACK BUT ALSO THE PROFITS OF BEING A HUB (FOR FREIGHT AND PASSENGER RAIL).

Buffalo may only have 1 (BCT) and 1/2 (DL&W) remaining rail stations....but we still have atleast 3 functioning freight rail yards...this could mean major expansion in warehouse, distribution, customer service, assembly on the eastside BCT and Bison Yards and south buffalo lackawanna Seneca Yards.

I welcome the investment and the future jobs. Buffalo needs them.

Now if we could only get a double coupdetat with a light rail extension too!

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"Make the Central Terminal a transportation hub like the others and you will see that section of the eastside gentrify and redevelop."

It's interesting that you would think this. What makes the return of the BCT succeed where the medical corridor has failed? In fact I would think that the medical corridor is about to harm the neighborhoods from Jefferson to Michigan and E North to the 33 by slowly taking entire blocks for parking of all things for UB 2020.

That's not gentrification... that's total garbage.

replied to QueenCity
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The medical corrider has unfortunatly done nothing for the area. it is it's own little compound where people pull in at 8am, pull out at 5am.

replied to Eisenbart
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this site is too amusing...do any of you actually think this is going to come to fruition....it will fail like every other project!

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If you are going to post somthing like that back it up with some facts. Why will it fail? Why wont it come to fruition? Be specific.

replied to BuffaloObesity
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yhea, I don't know the details but it would have taken over a potion of the basement (grade level for Amtrak) and the lobby space. You could have go straight from the Amtrak to light rail without leaving the building. Very nice concept and I thought that making the Aud.. Buffalo's downtown central terminal was a neat idea considering its size and scale. Could have been impressive. Lost in the mix.


Downtown's terminal doesn't and shouldn't replace the central terminal. A strong LR corridor like what QC suggests would be much more beneficial.


It would also open up the downtown transit hub to be something new, unique.. and maybe even a little architecturally striking. It wouldn't need to be as big but as a solid transfer \ welcome to the downtown station. I would like to see really modern for its style.

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When I was in Europe once, we took a train from Switzerland to Germany over, under, through the Alps on a train. The cool thing was that we drove our car up onto a flatbed train car along with hundreds of other cars. It saved us hours of driving over taking the roads.
I've always thought that it would be a great compromise here to do something like that. Bring your vehicle and let someone else do the tedious driving from say Bflo. to Albany or even Bflo. Chicago or Seattle even. Saves on greenhouse gasses, highway maintenance, fatigue and accidents.
Too outside the box?

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Your story is interesting.
~~~~~
It often happens that going "too outside the box" is what plants the "seeds" for new ideas; which is easier said then done in the "sterile soil" that is Buffalo, NY.

replied to BuffaloBobby
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Bobby - Check out the Amtrak Autotrain.

replied to BuffaloBobby
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{deleted- off topic}

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ADMINISTRATION:

What I typed that was deleted was simply an observation that was poetically on-topic concerning what I feel is Buffalo's introduction to national rapid transit and transit stations.
~~~~~
Meanwhile, I believe someone is deliberately stalking me here at Buffalo Rising inorder to humiliate me. This person has the username of NorPark. Crisa - 03/10/09 555p

replied to Crisa
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Since we are playing a little sim-Buffalo here, let me also throw out that there were drawings and plans made for a downtown terminal.


see:

http://central.terminal.railfan.net/pics/railphoto.cgi?misc/gustat.jpg

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al - that's a great website. I have visited it many times.

replied to al labruna
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That Union Station proposal did get built...in Albany ;)

replied to al labruna
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Eventually, Buffalo, NY will be nationally inclusive, not parochial.
~~~~~
Major decisions about B,NY will be made nationally.
~~~~~
The Central Terminal property and the area around it will be a WNY main hub for national transportation, and,,,
~~~~~
The nationally renounded B,NY will have progressed well past the never-built Bass Pro.
~~~~~
I typed 'never-built Bass Pro' because sometimes the best way to get a seed planted is to use reverse thought processing to get a thing done.

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Crisa will never stop posting her crazy robot jibberish on Buffalo Rising. I typed this so i could plant my reverse thought process seed and get things done.

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I'm willing to employ reverse thought processing if the building in the photo that Al Labruna referenced above can be built.

replied to NorPark
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I concur, if we all band together and employ reverse thought processing, this grand building will rise up from the ground.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I said 'rise up from the ground', because it is like the seed we plant through reverse thought processing.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Sorry, but this will never happen. The Anaheim to Las Vegas train is going to happen first, the impaCT ON THEIR ECONOMIES IS WAY TOO BIG.
Albany to NYC will happen, but Buffalo is no longer important or relevant enough to be included in that loop

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A$$, You should change your username to inferiority complex. Can you give us a reason besides defeatist cr@p on why this wont or shouldnt happen? Dont you think Buffalo, located between big markets to the north, south, east and west would be a logical HSR hub? Someone going from NYC to Chicago or TO to NYC or TO to PIT etc... would have to go through Buffalo right? That means weve got the opportunity to be a transit hub again. This is one of the instances where our location can be used to our advantage. Im not pulling this out of the sky either we were a big hub back when trains were the prefered mode of transportation.

replied to assaroni
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iluvpitbulls>"Someone going from NYC to Chicago or TO to NYC or TO to PIT etc Dont you think Buffalo, located between big markets to the north, south, east and west would be a logical HSR hub?"

There's no rail service between Pittsburgh and BUF. Don't take my word for it - verfiy on amtrak.com if you'd like.

There is for Toronto and BUF of course, but a disadvantage that HSR won't cure is extra miles needed to go around west chunk of Lake Ontario, out of the way to/from NYC. Even if the 110 mph upgrade eventually goes all the way from Toronto to BUF (which Canada would have to build, and I don't think with curves around the lake it could average 110 mph) and from BUF to NYC, the trip would still probably be near 7.5 hours (Bflo News yesterday said Buf-NYC would be 5.75 hrs if the whole path gets a 110 mph upgrade).

Air travel from Toronto to NYC is such a shorter path in miles and time (1 hr 40 mins nonstop), also not having to deal with the bend at Albany which trains have to. Some people would choose a 7 or 7.5 hour train from Toronto-NYC, but I doubt there'd be a huge market for it, cosnidering that's 5.5 to almost 6 hours longer than a nonstop flight.

replied to Armchair MBA
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I wouldnt expect HSR to drive the airlines into the ground. I do think that if the US and Canda upgraded their lines for high speed trains, they would be more competitive and Buffalo would stand to benifit. Right now were just talking NYC to NF but we should also look to upgrade lines south and westbound to connect with other soon to be high speed networks. If Im not mistaken there is a recently scuttled Buffalo-Pittsburg freight line that leads out of a historic train station in Orchard Park. That could be a Buffalo-Pittsburg HSR line.

replied to whatever
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My comparison of rail vs. plane was about Toronto-to-NYC.

The necessarily zig-zagged rail path between those cities - westward bend around Lake Ontario, through Buf, east to Albany, then due south, will give straight line air travel a huge advantage over HS trains at 110 (or a few decades from now, 150) mph - especially for business travel.

Over 7 hours even at 110 mph after a big upgrade, compared to flights under 2 hours. Even add in the hour from JFK to midtown and the plane is still substantially faster. This is different from cities on more straight line paths like NYC-D.C. for example, where rail can be much more competitive.

It sould be nice if Canada builds a HSR to Buf, but I doubt that establishing a 7+ hour ride to NYC gives them much motivation. They'd probably benefit more by building HSR from Toronto to Ottawa and Montreal. We'll see what they do.

About Pittsburgh-Buffalo, I've never seen that route mentioned even as a possibility in discussions of passenger rail expansion. There must be some reason it's considered not practical - maybe cost of adding more rail on the hilly land, or maybe there's just not enough perceived customer demand between Buf and Pitt, or maybe some combination of those.

Connection to points south from Buf now and after this upgrade seems limited (by whoever decides these things) to connections via the line to Chicago via Cleveland.

replied to Armchair MBA
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FWIW, A Buffalo-Pittsburgh run could be a part of a larger line to Baltimore and D.C. or to Philadelphia. I'd like to think that there will be plans for that in the future.

replied to whatever
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The problem is outside of people like you on this blog, no one else in the nation feels that Buffalo has any importance as a connection.

replied to sonyactivision
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Buffalo is a major rail hub and that infrastructure investment, made a century ago continues to serve the entire region. As much as you hate Buffalo, even you have to acknowlege that.

replied to georged
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Because its Buffalo Whaaaaaaaaaaa! My name is Georged and Ive got inferiority issues. Whaaaaaa! Im a Buffalo crybaby who does nothing but piss and moan. Whaaaaaaaaaaaa! I could just move away but putting down my hometown makes me feel so cool. Whaaaaaaaaaaaa! where are my boys A$$ and BO at? Whaaaaaaaaaaa!

replied to georged
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iloveptbulls, you have a lot of time on your hands...you post at least 12 times/article....do you work?

Furthermore, why don't you give evidence of why anoy of these projects will actually happen...b/c our politicians said so? Come on?

My evidence is history....its an good indication that none of this will happen.

replied to Armchair MBA
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Time? Not enough but self employment comes with its freedom. Why do you care? I love how people bust ball$ over posting too often but they are right there posting every day with you. You can post but I cant?
Every article I read has you posting somthing like "whaaaaaaaaaaa! My Name is BuffaloObesity." Whaaaaaaa! I dont like that idea." Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Im insecure so I badmouth my hometown on a blog to make myself feel better." "Whaaaaaaa! I hate this place but I dont have the courage to move away."
Look it is okay to be objective, cynical or bitter. There are other posters who may be "glass is half empty" but they back up their ideas with substantial, insightful posts. However you, A$$ and Gerorged contribute little more than crybaby pi$$ing and moaning and zippy one liners "your argument does not hold water" (?) "You have no stake in the game" (double ??). I also dont know why you guys get a sick kick out of running your hometown down at every turn. If you dont like it in Buffalo go away. If you must stay contribute more than "that wont happen" and give yourself some credibility.

replied to BuffaloObesity
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Amen.

replied to Armchair MBA
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Sure, but thats like saying Bakersfield CA will become a transit hub because its between Vegas, LA, Orange COunty, San Diego etc... Your argument does not hold water. Sorry

replied to Armchair MBA
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We are semi-frequent travelers of Amtrak between Buffalo and NY city and would LOVE if they are actually going to expand and moderize our rail service. As it is now, I think Amtrak does well on that route (most of the time we take the 4:50am train out of Buffalo/Depew and arrive in NY city 8 hours or less later), and the trains are usually packed. To be able to CONSISTENTLY get the Buffalo to NY train trip down to between 6-7 hours would be great....we would never consider driving the route ever again if that happened.

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Get over yourself Crisa, prob about 2% of my posts are in response to your nonsensical blabbering. NO-ONE on this site can translate your nonsense, YOU MAKE NO SENSE, and frankly it kind of ruins the conversation. So my bad, i'll just spare your feelings and bite my tongue till the 'block' function is restored.

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Regional rail and airlines are not really in competition. they should serve generally distinct markets: regional rail works for the 100-500 mile trips, and airlines generally would take up longer haul markets. Of course, there is always some blurring of the lines. And the potential always exists for new technologies and investments to shift those markets.

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When gas prices rise again ( and they will ), if we have solid rail systems in place, they will eliminate car trips. It's important to remember that most people who travel don't fly...they drive. A high speed rail system ( with speeds over 200mph ) might affect air travel but mainly tangentially. The whole point of HSR is to give people alternatives to the car. Untangling airport delays and congestion is a very valuable spinoff, one that could potentially pay for any HSR line with its cost savings. Also, reconnecting Downtown to Downtown travel would create new opportunities in many depressed areas which is another payoff. Think of the tax base that Buffalo has lost over the decades. bringing people back into the city can only change that story for the better.

replied to al labruna
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{Deleted- flaming}

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"ha HA!"
-nelson

replied to assaroni
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Again with the water holding? You're the guy with the anti Obama, right wing, populist crap babble and you call me white trash?
So far your argument against hsr is we are not the southwest US? Okay good for them. Do you think the feds are only going to invest in hsr systems in Nevada and California? Why wouldnt NY get any funding for our proposed line? Tell me why you are so sure "this will never happen". And give me a decent response this time. Somthing that "holds water". Save the "because its Buffalo", bitter for the sake of being bitter cr@p.

replied to assaroni
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well this is my first post at BR, but I figured I'd add my 2 cents since I live in Albany and take the train between breaks almost all the time, to come here for college.I am new to this region but I've read a bit on Buffalo's railroad history (and help cleanup at the BCT occasionally).
I believe it would be a grave mistake not to use the Central terminal as the stop for Amtrak. We have to remember why it was built there in the first place- downtown was way too congested- tracks and stations everywhere- it was chaotic and dangerous. It is doubtful that it will become very close to that if we use a downtown station, but its better to leave as much real estate downtown as possible for future development.
The second reason was so that it could service trains going to chicago and to niagara falls/ toronto. The lines split west of the terminal. It would make much more sense to use a beautiful building that we already have, than to build an entirely new one (or expand that joke of a station on exchange st.) and reroute the tracks to go to chicago from there. The whole two train stations aspect of buffalo needs to go. One central place seems better for business and travelers than two small brick buildings.
If you think the BCT is inconvenient to get from/to, you've never stopped at depew. The bus is infrequent and takes FOREVER to get to downtown. Taxis are expensive, and it's just better to go to exchange unless you live in like Lancaster or want to go to the airport.
When the BCT is rehabilitated for passenger rail use (yes I said when) there NEEDS to be the corresponding airport corridor incorporated into it. I wouldn't mind traveling to the BCT on amtrak then getting on the light rail. A lot of cities have connections from intercity to intracity rail.
Sorry for the long post. BCT IS THERE, IT'S BEAUTIFUL AND DESERVES ATTENTION (maybe it will help revitalize the neighborhood), THE LIGHT RAIL WILL BE RELATIVELY EASY TO DO. GET RID OF EXCHANGE ST AND DEPEW.

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Albany Buffalonian, I couldn't agree with you more, and I'm glad you weighed in ("All Aboard" is for commenters, too!). I happened to spot your comment in the comment roll this morning, but generally folks might not catch this a month later, so if you have a contact at the BCT group, I hope you'll e-mail them to let them know you commented -- they'll appreciate it.


I was going to mention the early hour of your comment, but then I remembered that Albany is in a different time zone (or maybe it just seems like some of the folks there -- especially at the State Capitol -- are in some kind of different zone or time warp than the rest of us).


Welcome aboard, and have a great week.

replied to albuffalonian
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well thank you for your warm welcome, RaChaCha. =) I've read many of your comments in the past, and I would just like to say that your ideas are phenomenal and I like seeing your optimism.

haha, no Albany isn't in a different time zone, but like you said, maybe some of the politicians are. I'm just a night owl.


replied to RaChaCha
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I have been thinking a lot about Buffalo’s Central Terminal since [last] year’s Artists & Models, and I’ve put together something like a series of brief proposals for making a strong case for its eventual reopening as an actual rail station, as well as ideas for repurposing some of the grand interior space (imported from The West Coast), and for bringing in some much-needed funding for these various projects...
http://icartographer.blogspot.com/2008/07/series-of-modest-proposals-for-buffalos.html

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Here's a few comments from someone who grew up near the Central Terminal and now lives in MA:

1. It would be a shame NOT to use the Central Terminal- it's beautiful and once restored as an active terminal, would help to also restore the East Side neighborhood. I remember the Terminal as a kid as a sort of scary place - abandoned, garbage & glass strewn about, a sad place. It would be great to renew it to it's true functioning.

2. The Central Terminal is in a good location - sort of in between downtown and Depew. Given Buffalo's urban sprawl, maybe this location would actually be a plus.

3. Right now, taking the train from MA to Buffalo is not easy. It's relatively costly (given the cheap JetBlue flights from Boston to Buffalo), is almost ALWAYS 1 hour (at least) late (since ConRail owns the lines, they have first dibs on the rail), and is very time consuming. Still, I love to take the train and would rather do that than fly if we had high speed rail.

4. Think about merging bus and train stations. Right now, if I take the bus to Albany, I have to pay a pretty steep taxi fare to take me one mile to the train station - what a BAD setup. The same would be true in Buffalo - make sure it's not so costly (money and time) to then get from the BCT to wherever you need to go ( Cheektowaga, West Seneca, Depew, Tonawanda, etc.) Not everyone has someone that can pick them up and take them where they need to go.....What's the point of a fast train if, once you get there, everything slows down or is so costly, it leaves a bad impression?

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