City February 19, 2009 3:03 PM

Jobs at PriceRite

Jobs at PriceRite

Mayor Byron W. Brown today announced that the City of Buffalo, through the Buffalo Employment & Training Center, will assist PriceRite Supermarket in holding a recruitment event for the opening of its new store located at 250 Elmwood Avenue.

"PriceRite is a great addition to the City of Buffalo and we will work to assist the company to find qualified applicants for several different job opportunities in the market," said Mayor Brown.  "Through the Buffalo Employment and Training Center, we are able to match good candidates with jobs at the new store.  My Administration continues to focus on attracting investment and development projects that will increase job-creation options for city residents. The arrival of PriceRite in a formerly vacant retail location on Elmwood Avenue helps bring back a supermarket to this area of the city while presenting new job opportunities."

The on-site employer recruitments have been scheduled for Friday, February 20,2009 and Monday, February 23, 2009  from 8:30AM to 3:00PM at the Buffalo Employment and Training Center (BETC), located at 77 Goodell Street. Potential job seekers are required to apply online at before being interviewed.

PriceRite's goal is to hire about 80 to 100 individuals, with a starting salary of $8 per hour. PriceRite is headquartered in Wethersfield, CT, and has been in operation since 1995.  The company operates stores in New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island.  This new location marks the company's first Buffalo location.   The Elmwood location is set to open on Sunday, March 22, 2009.

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Price Rite plans to open a seond Buffalo market at the old Vix location on Kenmore Ave.

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I don't know whether to laugh or cry that the opening of a supermarket is worthy of the Mayor's Office's attention

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"My Administration continues to focus on attracting investment and development projects that will increase job-creation options for city residents."

He's like a frigging broken record.

replied to Ike
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oh please, these will be part-time minimum wage jobs.

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Part-time minimum wage jobs > No job

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LOL, Like Byron had a damn thing to do with this, what a friggin idiot. Suppose he will lug the podium there for the grand opening and spout off yet more hot air. But, if he's happy that his [ or so he believes in his simple little mind] administration brought in a discount supermarket that will not last long do to the fact that it will become food stamp/bottle drop off central, so be it. Anyway, thanks for the afternoon laugh.

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Getting supermarkets to locate in cities is no small feat.
And while it won't make a huge economic impact, it will fill a need.
Still, this place should be paying better wages than $8/hour. Is that a mistake?

Also, they need to loose the "An American Company" tag.

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The dollar store of grocery chains opening shouldnt be newsworthy. Boy that mayor likes to get credit for everything.

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Byron is Ghetto Fabulous...maybe some of the Section 8 residents across the street will actually start to work...Naaah probably not...the government welfare is just too sweeeeet!

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Assaroni,
Didn't I just read about you getting arrested last week out in Cali, for packing a heater and smoking blunts?

replied to assaroni
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Yeah...my bad...i cant give up the weed bro

replied to NorPark
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Having businesses open in two currently empty, large, locations is good news, and newsworthy when there is so little business development occurring. This is more the real economy than the silver bullet dream projects some posters seem to limit their interest to.

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Not when the businesses are ones that will help with the demise of the area's.

replied to Dagner
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Couldnt agree more about incremental development vs silver bullets.

I just dont think a chain retailer that already exists in the area shouldnt be worthy of a news confrence and mayoral showboating. I hope there are no tax breaks or other handouts for this.

replied to Dagner
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we should be happy that there are jobs being added to the buffalo area. seriously. times are tough! My only worry is that it may hurt Elmwood Market which is my favorite place in that area.

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ok....if byron brown spent his time bringing in a discount supermarket into a pretty strong part of the city. then we need to vote him out.

if byron brown thinks he had anything to do with making this deal happen or getting this supermarket to look at and open up in buffalo, then he might be high on crack. and we need to vote him out.

he is however responsible for the Motel 8 opening up on our waterfront. which should get him voted out of office.

please god...stop allowing such tools to get elected in wny.
what have we done to deserve such punishment?

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What we really need is a Whole Foods Market in Buffalo.

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Over-priced, over-trendy foods? No, we really don't need this.

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I think that the health conscious and vegetarian/vegan people in the community would appreciate Whole Foods Market. Good food isn't cheap by anymeans. If it's cheap food you want then go to Aldi's or Save-a-Lot. But there is a large portion of the population who care about what they put into their bodies and are willing to pay a premium cost to live healthy.

replied to Dagner
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Have you tried the Lexington Co-op?

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wegmans is over rated and not very cheap, in fact when traveling i find trader joes cheaper.

replied to Dagner
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make it a dollar foods store...this way the section 8ers can buy weed instead of groceries

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Wegman's was rated the best grocery store in the country. Ahead of Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. They are just harder to get in urban areas. There is only one in the actual city limits (Amherst Street). I bet if this thing was a Wegman's, people would be all about it.

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How can Wegmans be rated best in country when it is regional?
Given a choice, wegmans is only rated so high becouse it has no real competion, Tops is what they face [bfd], bring a Whole Foods or a Trader Joes to Buffalo, Rochester or where ever and then see what happens in ratings. People in Buffalo run with whatever they can get, sad.

replied to TranspoGuy
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BuffBuff,

The ratings thing came from Consumer Reports. They rated 54 large grocery stores, all accross the country on a variety of factors. Trader Joes was 2nd and Whole Foods 3rd. Wegman's has a pretty big service area now too, there are stores in PA and NJ as well. It isn't like they are only in Buffalo and Rochester Still.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/shopping/where-to-buy/supermarkets-10-06/overview/1006_supermarkets_ov1.htm

There is the link to the article. I am not sure you can view the entire thing unless you are signed in though.

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BRO: can we have a standing issues section? The Trader Joes/Whole Foods thing comes up frequently with few new points. It would save posters and readers time if new posters could just be directed to an archive of comments on the topic.

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Secondly,

Wegman's won an award from the Food Network in 2007 as the best grocery store in the country. Over Trader Joe's and Wegman's


https://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/PressReleaseDetailView?langId=-1&storeId=10052&catalogId=10002&productId=399613

Also, how can you call a store with 79 locations in 4 states "regional"?

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First off re-read your thread. Second, I call anything regional that is not nation wide, 4 NE states is regional. As I said, I would like to see what would happen to the Wegman's rating if they had REAL competion, Tops and Dash do not cut it, and with "price right" or whatever that silly chain is called, still no real comp for Wegmans in the New York area.

replied to TranspoGuy
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Then since Trader Joes isn't in Texas, Florida or most of the midwest, I guess they are a regional chain too.

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unlike Wegmans, Trader Joes is expanding rapidly nationwide. As is Wholefoods.

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I cannot believe that they expect people to make a difference when working for minimum wage. If a company pays the minimum then they deserve to get the minimum. We should protest against Price-RITE to demand that they pay a LIVING WAGE instead of just the minimum. I bet their greedy executives would never consider making less than the maximum that they feel they are worth, so why not extend that to their employees?

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NY state minimum wage is $7.15/hr, rising to $7.25/hr on July 24, 2009. So really their $8.00/hr starting pay is 12% over the minimum wage.

But aside from legalities, Heather and hamp both make great points that PriceRite should have to pay their cashiers and stock clerks a lot more than only 12% higher than minimum wage.

Heather, when you say protest, are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting?

Online petition?

Should it also include demands that they build some urban-friendly buildings near the store and add some front windows?

What about other nearby stores? Elmwood Market and the Village Beer store must have starting pay for cashiers more than $8.00/hour, don't they?

hamp, did you ask those stores? Can somebody make a big list?

replied to Heather
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No one can live on $7.25 per hour. Wages like that are worse than welfare and far more demeaning to the individual. Where is your sense of decency for the workers? You expect them to wait on you and serve you for that pittance? It is no wonder that this store is always in horrible shape and the workers don't care. If we pay the workers a decent and living wage then we will get better service from more engaged and interested employees.


There is a mighty difference between bottle returns and decent wages for work performed. Your analogy shows how little you think of the common worker.

replied to whatever
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And does anyone know if PriceRite is planning to refund only the minimum required amount for each bottle returned?

Do PriceRite executives expect people to supplement their incomes on that minimum? I understand they can charge only the required deposit on purchased bottled drinks, so the charge is a maximum. But what would prevent them from refunding a greater amount, a LIVING bottle refund, to help city residents in this time of economic stress? Only one thing stops them, right? Starts with G, ends with reed?

replied to Heather
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I am sure we all remember the staff and how clean Latinos was at the end, expect the same with a bunch of minimum wage employee's who don't care. I recall how excited everyone was when Latino's did open, lets see what this place is like in 2 years, IF it is still open. Plus, it's not just the staff that brought the store [Latinos] down. The customer base was pretty rank also which helps to bring down moral. BRO wrote rave stories back then about Latino's, or are our memories that short? I bet in 4/5 years your all raving about the new store opening at this location when announced.

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They'll get paid what the market will allow. I was always taught to do a job to the best of my ability no matter what I was getting paid, or if I was even getting paid. If someone doesn't like their wage, then they need to work their way up to a different job, sorry life is not always fair. Take pride in what you do. I'm not defending the $7.25 wage, but its no excuse for doing a crappy job.

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This neighborhood needs a store even if it is "Price Rite". The usual poor bashing and defense of paying crap wages is kind of silly considering the mess this country is in. The conservative agenda of concentrating wealth at the top has severely damaged our economy and our society. Paying a fair and decent wage while providing basic health care to all is the only way to recover and begin rebuilding the middle class. A living wage would also greatly reduce welfare dependency and the need for so many other government subsidies to the poor.

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Is this really the "Only way to recover and begin rebuilding the middle class?" The living wage calculator puts the living wage for a typical family of four at $29.35 per hour or $56,352 a year. This is the wage that each wage earner in a family of four would require based on their perceived need to maintain their standard of living. The same report indicates that a family of four is in poverty at $9.83 per hour, per working adult, which is $2.58 over the current minimum wage.


This report may be found at http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/counties/36029.


Keep in mind that the starting salary for a teacher in WNY (bachelor's only) is $32.897, with a master's degree that salary jumps to $37,552. If you had a choice of working a job with little responsibility or accountability for $56,352 a year, or spending 9 years in college to earn $37,552; which would you choose? I know that someone will tell me that the earning potential for teachers over time is greater than someone working at PriceRite; but the living wage supporters are also fighting for a standard 3% - 5% COLA increase each year to keep up with inflation. It sounds to me like a recipe for economic collapse. How long would we be able to sustain this model if we see fewer and fewer entrepreneurs and capitalists trying to do more and earn more? How long would it take for most hard working Americans to either drop out or demand more? If you demand too much, then you cross that magical $150K per year salary mark and you become part of the elite 'rich' that Blackrocklifer considers to be at the "top".


I loved reading the NY Times article that cited the statistic that 50% of NYC taxes are paid by just 40,000 individuals. The mayor and others are worried that too many of the elite 1%, who are footing 50% of the tax bill are leaving the state and often the country. In a city of over 8 Million residents, only 40,000 are paying more than half the taxes, and you want to take more from them because you don't believe that other people have enough. Let them leave NY and watch our Governor and the Mayor of NY continue their panic. It won't be long until we are in a situation that is similar to California's economic crisis. Look at what has been fueling their rapid decline, and then look at what you are asking for in NY. My guess is that you would rather have everyone be poor and destitute than have anyone be wealthy. Is that right Blackrocklifer? Why don't you pick up a copy of Atlas Shrugged, the perspective might do you some good.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Duh! Don't you get it? With more equality everyone earns more. The poor won't be poor anymore and the teachers and police officers and fire fighters and others will finally earn what they deserve. Teachers should be the ones making six figures while do nothing management should be eliminated to let people live freely and without repression. This is what we need to rebuild the middle class.

replied to whynot
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Cutting taxes for the wealthy has proven to be not only morally wrong but has resulted in a third world like division between the haves and have nots. Reagan, Bush and even Clinton put too much faith in the "free market" and the mantra of "tax cuts". This allowed greed and irresponsibility to rule instead of looking out for the average American. The idea of the benevolent wealthy class has been thoroughly discredited by recent events and it is sad to see some still clinging to this ideology that has proved to be not just misguided but dangerous to the fabric of our society.

replied to whynot
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"Cutting taxes for the wealthy has proven to be not only morally wrong but has resulted in a third world like division between the haves and have nots"


I don't see how taking more money from the wealthy is a moral imperative. In fact, I would argue that forcibly taking money from anyone, regardless of how much you believe that they have and how much of their wealth you are entitled to, is morally wrong. If you use the ten commandments as a moral guide, you will find that it is not morally right to steal and it is not morally right to covet thy neighbor's goods or house.


As far as poverty in America being at third world levels, you are so far off. There are few families in America who are forced to live in garbage dumps or under makeshift homes like most who live in third world conditions. I believe in our welfare programs and support them because they do keep our poor out of true third world poverty conditions. I do not have an issue with welfare, it is an essential service provided by the government to keep the poor out of third world conditions. I do not have an issue with the spending that is required to support welfare. I do take issue with your claim that the poor are poor because the wealthy are wealthy, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to demand more from the rich so the poor can give less, this is the piece of the equation that I cannot understand. Why is it morally correct to punish those who produce, those who sacrifice and take risks, to pay for those who don't? How is it morally correct to knowingly and willingly bring more children into the cycle of poverty? Where is the personal responsibility? Where is the moral imperative to parent your children and prepare them for the future? Too many people have are copping out, and blaming the rich for the circumstances of the poor is a cop out.


I do believe that welfare is important, but this system is broken at the core. The system perpetuates poverty, pumping more money into it, money taken from the 1% who are paying the majority of taxes, is not the answer. Fix poverty at the root, it is unfortunate that there are few elected government officials with the testicular fortitude to even discuss the root cause of poverty. It is much easier to blame the wealthy and lay claim to their wealth than to address the real root of the problem.


replied to Blackrocklifer
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pretty close on the mark here, yesterday on CNN even gov patterson admited 150k people leave every year.

replied to whynot
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Ohh, Heather, what world do you live in? Wherever it is, Blackrocklifter must be your neighbor.

Got to love this Age of Entitlement that has swept the country. That loser Obama has really got all of you wannabe socialists all riled up. Working check-out and stocking shelves deserves minimum wage. It used to be that the beauty of this country was that you could work your way up with hard work. Now everyone expects to just be given more and more at the expense of the tax payers.

Whynot brings up a great point about teachers and then you just fall back on the unsupported "equality earns everyone more argument." Please explain further!

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georged- By this "Age of Entitlement" you must mean the corporate bailout of Wall Street and the outright theft of the nations wealth by the rich and powerful. Or do you mean the mortgage interest deduction that is the largest transfer of wealth from our treasury to those of the middle class and above. Or maybe it is the huge subsidies to the highway system or the tax breaks given to business by our IDAs that end up being paid by the taxpayers.

replied to georged
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Blackrocklifter-you mean the bailout back in October in which Pelosi and Barney Franke all told us we needed or a collapse was soon to follow? The one that republicans get blame for but at the time were ready to reject (under heavy criticism from Queen Pelosi.)

No, I am taking about the entitlement that the government owes everyone struggling something. The entitlement that comes with welfare, section 8, unions, and all the other handouts that has aided directly to our financial problems. The entitlement that put pressure on banks and other lenders to make sure that they were approving loans to those that may have not normally qualified because it was "discrimination." The entitlement that tries to put all those who have done well and worked hard as greedy or crooked. The entitlement that bails out homeowners who foolishly went into mortgages that they couldn't afford while those who purchased more modestly now have to help with our tax money.

I am sure that it makes you feel all warm inside to talk the talk of a advocate of the "downtrodden." if you feel so strongly for them, why don't you volunteer your money and resources to them so i can use mine elsewhere.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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georged- The bottom 40% of America control 1% of the wealth and therefore cannot be responsible for more than 1% of the problem. That bottom 40% includes all the welfare, section 8 and other favorite targets of the right. Your tax dollars go to support a system that is heavily tilted towards the rich and powerful and complaining about the 1% chump change that the botom 40% share makes no sense at all.

replied to georged
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The bottom 1% of the poor draw 16% of welfare dollars in the US.

As a country, the US has 5% of the world's population, yet we command 35% of the world's wealth and nearly 40% of the GDP. Europe has 10% of the world's population, yet controls 27% of the world's wealth. Between Europe and the US, we hold 62% of the world's wealth, is it our moral imperative to send jobs, money, and business to the remaining 85% of the world's population. Does this give us a moral imperative to outsource jobs and to send manufacturing jobs to Mexico (Central America only controls 4% of the world's wealth) or to Africa (less than 1% of the world's wealth)? Maybe the answer is to create third world conditions for America to improve the conditions for the rest of the world.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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The third world conditions are real, just look around here in Buffalo and the other old cities. I have witnessed the same poverty in the southern tier and also in rural Pennsylvania. Of course some people are responsible for their own troubles but lack of opportunity and connections is the main reason so many are poor. All wealth is derived in one way or another from natural resources and all citizens should share in the bounty that is America. Surely the collapse of our economy has proved that the rich are not capable or honorable enough to trust with the wealth that belongs to ALL of us.

replied to whynot
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Living in a duplex on the West Side of Buffalo is a far cry from third world conditions. Living in a converted single wide trailer in rural PA is also a far cry from third world conditions. I have been to Korea, Panama, Mexico, India, and Nigeria and have seen first hand what third world poverty looks like. Try raising a family of four under a 10' x 10' tarp and cinder blocks, using a communal pit as a toilet and pulling food from the trash dump. That is third world poverty.

Section 8 housing in Buffalo would be a blessing for anyone from the third world.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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All wealth is derived from natural resources? Did Tom Gallisano's wealth come from natural resources or from the product of his mind, risk, and determination? I guess Paychex is a product of natural resources, therefore we all have claim to Gallisano's wealth. He is already paying over $1.5M per year in taxes, how much more should he pay?


What makes you say that ALL RICH are incapable of being honorable or trustworthy? What makes you believe that their wealth belongs to ALL OF US? What part did you play in Bill Gates' wealth? What risk did you take to help Steve Job build the Apple empire? What give you a right to someone's property? Because you feel that it came from natural resources?

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Tom Galisanos wealth comes from providing a service to those that rely on natural resources to produce a product or service. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs also provide service in the same way. These fortunes could not have been created had there not been a demand for products or services that are ultimately derived from natural resources.

replied to whynot
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To WHYNOT: YES, IT IS OUR MORAL DUTY TO SPREAD OUR PROSPERITY WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE WEALTH IS GAINED FROM THE SWEAT OF THIRD WORLD LABORERS AND HOARDED IN OUR COUNTRY.

IT IS TIME TO GIVE IT BACK!

IN RESPONSE TO:
The bottom 1% of the poor draw 16% of welfare dollars in the US.

As a country, the US has 5% of the world's population, yet we command 35% of the world's wealth and nearly 40% of the GDP. Europe has 10% of the world's population, yet controls 27% of the world's wealth. Between Europe and the US, we hold 62% of the world's wealth, is it our moral imperative to send jobs, money, and business to the remaining 85% of the world's population. Does this give us a moral imperative to outsource jobs and to send manufacturing jobs to Mexico (Central America only controls 4% of the world's wealth) or to Africa (less than 1% of the world's wealth)? Maybe the answer is to create third world conditions for America to improve the conditions for the rest of the world.

replied to whynot
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sorry heather, don't want to send my wealth to a 3rd world country to become one myself. your a trip girl!

replied to Heather
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In business, as well as economics, there is no such thing as a "moral imperative". It's about money. And money doesn't know who you are or care about your politics.

replied to Heather
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Heather, Maybe you won't reply to this but I'm curious what's your reaction to an American couple who spends $1.65 million for a 6,400 sq ft mansion that has six bedrooms and six bathrooms, for themselves and their two kids?

Is that use of money a good example of helping to make things equal for everyone in this county and the world as you're advocating?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/16/obama_haunted_by_friends_help_securing_dream_house

"Obama haunted by friend's help securing dream house By Binyamin Appelbaum Globe Staff / March 16, 2008

CHICAGO - The large brick house Barack and Michelle Obama bought in June 2005 sits in a neighborhood of historic mansions.

Its 6,400 square feet included six bedrooms, six bathrooms, and a wine cellar for 600 bottles. It had been renovated five years earlier in high style: antique Chinese washbasins, mahogany bookshelves, a granite kitchen floor.

It was a fitting home for a new senator. And it was a good deal. The list price was $1.95 million, but the Obamas paid $1.65 million, the same price the sellers had paid five years before.

Now, as Obama fights for the Democratic presidential nomination, the deal is under scrutiny because of the help he received from a longtime friend and fund-raiser, Chicago developer Tony Rezko, who is currently on trial on federal charges that he attempted to profit from his relationship with another Chicago politician he befriended and supported, Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich.

On Friday, Obama cast the home deal in an even sharper light by revealing that Rezko had raised up to $250,000 for his campaigns over the years - about $100,000 more than he had previously acknowledged. ..."

replied to Heather
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So President Obama should be impeached because he got a good deal on a house. Or because a fundraiser for his campaigns failed to report all of the money that was raised. That way, the votes of over 65 million people should be voided by a real estate transaction that mysteriously lopped off a couple hundred thousand dollars of presumed value in a market where home values have declined 10-20%. Dream on, bitter Republican.

replied to whatever
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Lame try at twisting what I wrote, sony.

My point was clear. I support his spending for a $1.65 million 6,400 square foot mansion with a wine cellar, six bedrooms, and six baths. I doubt I've ever stepped foot in a house with more than three baths, so I'm impressed they bought a mansion with twice that many.

That's freedom. Using money to buy an extravagent mansion with help of Tony Rezko for nearby land was a VERY hopeful sign that Obama believes in U.S. capitalism. It was something he wanted, way beyond his needs. He didn't hesitate due to inequality in the U.S. or worldwide. There was nothing wrong with using personal riches from his book deal or senate salary for that mansion.

I'm also impressed he so much expanded his family's carbon footprint at the time. Not as much as Gore or Edwards for their mansions, but it's a hopeful sign that Obama despite his rhetoric has a balanced view about carbon use.

You and I have no argument about this. We both support Obama's decision. Your attempt to twist it as you did was ridiculous. My question was to Heather whose comments expressed a different attitude about wealth.

replied to sonyactivision
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Yeah, I "twisted" your screed implicating Obama with indicted figures of Chicago politics. My bad.

replied to whatever
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You completely twisted it, babbled about impeachment, 65 million voters - bizarre things nothing to do with anything I wrote. The article about his mansion details happens to mention Rezko and Blogo in passing. No need to be sensitive. The indictments were nothing to do with Obama, so it looks to me like a legitimate financial move to let Rezko help acquire the land. Friends help each other all the time. None of that was the point.

I've been impressed with quite a few things about Obama. Buying the $1.65M mansion was one. Another is his smart investment in private school tuition for his kids. He got a lot of public pressure from interest groups to put the kids in a D.C. public school and he resisted, so far at least. That's another case of him respecting the free enterprise capitalist system that Heather attacked, so I just wonder about the disconnect there. But maybe you scared her away now.

replied to sonyactivision
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Gorged: Can you spew your redneck crap elsewhere? What does the blathering of rush fan have to do with Price Rite?

replied to georged
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About working at a discount store (below management level) while keeping prices down:
~~~~~~~~~~
Clerking and working in stock rooms are entry-level jobs.
~~~~~~~~~~
Entry-level jobs mean being temporarily employed while following higher aspirations...
~~~~~~~~~~
Aspiring socially begans with the five most important aspirations: A formal education, a solid job, marriage, children (and homeownership although not all renters are TTs).
~~~~~~~~~~
Forty%/one%ers need to understand that having and practicing "aspirations" means more than breathing in then aspiring out.


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Crisa - ??????

replied to Crisa
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The wealthy don't mind if the "poor" won't aspire.

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There is so much of Buffalo living in third world conditions. Just take a trip to the City Mission on any night and you will find hundreds of men without homes who eat from dumpsters and beg for change from the rich businessmen who can barely spare a glance much less a dollar.


Capitalism is killing America by choking us off at the root of common decency and good will. The capitalist will tell you that everyone can succeed if he just tries harder, works longer hours, or gives up more of himself. The enlightened person will show him that we must cater the job and the pay to the capability and need of the person. Is it too much to ask that we allow a person to earn a living based on his ability instead of an arbitrary wage set by the greedy rich?

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What do you mean by enlightened? If you're going to compare economic systems, utilized the proper term and compare capitalism to socialism. While I generally take a leftist social stance, socialism leads to laziness and lack of advancement. Do I believe in social programs, welfare and advancement of those without, yes. Do I believe in rewarding those who don't achieve by limiting those who do, no. I have college loans and have gotten to my position, and I'm by no means rich, by working hard and taking advantage of the breaks and opportunites I've had. I'm not greedy for working hard and going to college, its the american dream.

replied to Heather
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Heather, you're a trip.


You should spring for a few economics courses and books. Take a few econ history classes. You seem genuinely motivated. If you feel so strongly, you should study.


I don't know anything about you other than what I read from your posts, but I assume you are young. I'm guessing you're in your early to mid 20s. I'm guessing you are too young to have traveled beyond the iron curtain.


For anyone who never traveled there back in the day, the east block was poor. And polluted. The gap between east and west grew every year, markedly every decade. The economies of the west produced wealth the eastern block couldn't dream of. I went to Poland in 1982, when it was under marshal law. At the time the waiting list to get an apartment (after you were married and so could apply for your own apartment) was 20 years. Until that 20 years was up, you had to live with your folks or hers. Sorry. Not enough housing. Oh, and by the way what housing there was all had to conform. All the apartment buildings looked the same. Know why? Couldn't be unfair about it and give some people better apartments or individually differentiated apartments. No, the mentality was to constantly stress the communal, the equality of life, the greater good. So all had to be the same, more or less.


The result was an economy which didn't work. Take a look today at satellite pictures of the Korean Peninsula at night. South and North Korea were equally dirt poor sixty years ago. One half of the nation went with capitalism, the other with communal control of the economy. Pictures of the globe don't have outlines of national boundaries, but at night you don't need a map to make out the shape of North Korea. You know why? It's dark. There are no lights. No cities lit up by electricity. You know why? They're dirt poor. They can't afford to keep the lights on. To help bring in the harvest every year, the cities are emptied out of workers who are shipped to the countryside to bring in the yield. And it never yields enough.


If you fail to heed economic realities, you will build a flawed, inefficient and uncompetitive economy.


The old communist joke was: "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us." If you don't need to, then why work hard? Why try to excel? If the pay off is the same one way or another, why not take it easy?


In all of nature, carving out a life is difficult. We've got it easier than any other species, but in all of nature it is hard to put food in one's stomach, so to speak. Life is hard. For every living creature, really. Even the rich don't have an easy life. No one's life is really easy. We all have our own expectations, demons, disappointments, shortcomings and mortality with which to contend.


Life isn't easy for most creatures nor for many of us. But the poorest of the poor in Buffalo are far wealthier, from the standpoint of nutrition and shelter, educational opportunity and health care, than a quarter of world's population. The poverty within our community has more to do with an intellectual and spiritual poverty in the minds and hearts of those who do not (for whatever reasons of nature and nurture) avail themselves of the tools by which to improve their lot in life (education, avoiding addictions, willingness to work hard, etc.).


But even in the minds and hearts of the poor and the downtrodden among us, self reliance could be fortified. From the exercise of habits which will lead to self sufficiency, self respect will surely follow. Recipients of largess ought be expected to pull their weight to the greatest degree possible. Those at the City Mission should have to work three or four hours a day for the community's benefit in exchange for the privileges of food and shelter. Have them shovel sidewalks, clean streets and parks, erase graffiti, plant flowers and trees, harvest crops. Work them in crews. Everybody should have to try to support themselves. As the old saying goes: "The world does not owe you a living. It owes you the right to earn a living."


Can someone live on minimum wage? Yes. Is it easy? No. If you want an easier life, you must aspire to a higher rung on the economic food chain. Not every job is worth more.


Now, on the other side of the argument, the average American is held hostage to a growing degree by the lower cost of production outside US shores. Whether the product is film animation, computer engineering, steel production, auto production, etc. etc., we are all threatened by outsourcing.


Our economy can no longer afford to lift the rest of the world out of poverty through our profligate consumerism. We cannot afford to continue to purchase more than we produce, year in and year out. We have a negative balance of trade by which we feed the economies of China, India, Japan and Germany, et.al., but we have to borrow the money to do it. So we take out home equity loans and our national debt spikes ever skyward. And we borrow the money from Japan and the Mid East and China because they're the only ones with cash.


I have a solution to that. A simple market mechanism to balance trade. But another time. It takes a while to explain. It's not my own idea, but it's a winner. If we balance trade, then we can better afford to rearrange the terms of economic compensation within our own borders.


Capitalism requires checks and balances. We have many features of a socialist economy (police and fire protection, public education, the military, anti slavery laws, child work laws, workplace safety laws, etc., etc.), and should have some more, frankly, like universal health care. But inflating wages to unsustainable levels is not the way to benefit society. It's not so much the greedy rich who are the problem. It's those poor people in other nations who keep taking our jobs for cheap.


Should the wealthy contribute more than others? Absolutely. Has the equation unfairly favored the richest since Ronald Reagan? Yes, and it should be retrenched. The market place doesn't decide perfect wages. The sports celebrity or teen rehab vixen doesn't deserve to be rewarded economically hundreds of times more than the research scientist. The market place is a crude device. Some undeserving make a lot of money. Some deserving make too little.


The rich are able to amass wealth in our society only because of the social stability which our framework of laws creates. Those fortunes are dependent upon the sacrifices and social agreements all of us are compelled to yield. Is a soldier's value to be pegged only at his rate of pay? Don't we all benefit from the efforts of others? The marketplace is a crude instrument. It overcompensates some and under-compensates others. The Beatles were taxed at a 95% rate ("that's one for you, nineteen for me. Cause I'm the tax man"). They still became billionaires. We could tax the rich more and we should. They become rich not simply because of their vision, ingenuity, entrepreneurial acumen and personal effort, but also because the environment society creates through its laws and the willingness of many to give great effort for relatively small reward. In Japan in the early '70s, the heads of companies made about seven times as much as production workers. In America today the difference is hundreds of times the line level wage. Our economy over rewards some people. It is not to society's benefit for the gap between poor and rich to grow. It is to society's benefit to grow the middle classes.


But to pay more for any job requires funding which is economically viable. Even if we heavily tax the uber-rich, we still won't be able to pay big money for menial employment. The job of supermarket check out clerk will never be paid highly enough to raise a family in middle class style. Still, in many parts of Buffalo two full time minimum wage earning parents could afford to buy a double if they scrimped. Cut out cable. Don't get a car. Eat inexpensively, rely on public schools and libraries and focus your kids on education. A respectable life can be carved. You'll get food stamps to help. It won't be middle class, but it will be decent. To pay for a better life style, figure out a way to become more valuable to the economy.

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bini- A very reasonable and balanced view but I would take issue with your assumption that 2 minimum wage workers can carve out a respectable life. I started out as a roofer in 1978 making $3 an hour and struggled to pay the bills. I purchased my first home in 1980 (a 2 family handyman special for $6,500) and with my background in building trades was able to renovate it into a decent home. Had I not had this ability I would not have been successful. I was also fortunate to attend a trade school and this education allowed me to work my way up into the middle class. Today I am quite comfortable but it took years of hard work and I was lucky to have the breaks, knowledge, and drive to achieve success. For many others especially those that are not the sharpest folks this path is impossible.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Bini, amen.

When are you running for office?

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No, don't make Biniszkiewicz run for office. It's time for him to start writing articles for BRO.

replied to nick
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Paul,

Don't be selfish, I'm sure he'd find time to still contribute as mayor.

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Can you see the smiles as someone appears to have just proudly attained another six months of majoring in...
~~~~~
Title: Understanding Human Relationships
Sub Title: in relation to the world economy
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Table Tents: Pg. 1-2000 Buffalo and the rest of the world.
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Actually, I did the above so that I could have a reason for using "table tents" again!
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Heather, you sound just like HeatherSmiles--a uname I love!!!
Couldn't you get back in here with your old username?

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Obama is just like those greedy grimy evil CEO's, and the rich dirty selfish business men, the little person needs their handouts asap, because people shouldnt be held accountable for their own actions, just because they want a mcmansion and cant afford it but decide to buy it anyways, the deserve it, they were scammed by the banks, brokers, real estate agents, and all the other shady rich business type people in this damn capitalist society, with all its money hungry monsters, right heather? I hear North Korea is nice this time of year...

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our new president is so front and forward, he walked into a total mess, give the guy a break...and a chance. What do you want to see, G.W Bush who brought this county to it's knee's back in office?

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