Real Estate February 15, 2009 8:15 AM

Betting Big at Elmwood/Forest

Betting Big at Elmwood/Forest

Chason Affinity Cos. is diving into the hotel and luxury condo market in a big way.  Despite today's difficult economic climate, the developer is planning an eight-story, mixed-use project for the corner of Elmwood and Forest avenues.  The $25 million building will include ground floor retail, a boutique hotel with 125 rooms, enclosed parking for 160 cars, and 20 condominiums on the top three floors according to today's The Buffalo News:

The building, designed by local architect Charles Gordon, would feature a "stacked" design, with the first floor built out to the sidewalk and upper floors getting progressively smaller.

"It allows us to build a larger building with great density without overpowering the site. It can be tall without appearing tall," (Affinity Chief Executive Jeffrey) Birtch said.

The building also is designed to anchor the high-profile intersection, with a rounded, lighthouselike tower at the corner. And exterior facade materials also vary, with extensive use of glass on the corner tower and lower floors and a mix of brick styles and colors on upper levels.

The rear of the building, which overlooks Granger Place, is designed with windows angled to face adjoining portions of the structure rather than directing down into backyards. Parking for 160 vehicles is incorporated into the first two floors of the building, completely out of view.

"There would be nothing else like this in Buffalo. It's more like something you'd see in Toronto," said (Affinity President Mark) Chason, who lives a few blocks from the site.

The Amherst-based firm is hoping to succeed where plans for a smaller hotel project failed two years ago.  Savarino Companies' plans for a boutique hotel met with neighborhood resistance and were ultimately done in by deed restrictions that prohibited commercial use on much of the site.

 savhotel.png

Savarino's proposed 72-room Wyndham Hotel proposal.

Chason Affinity is counting on a better outcome and has had meetings with neighbors to discuss its plans:

"We need to work with surrounding residents and businesses on this and want to be good neighbors. No project ever gets 100 percent support, but we think a majority will be very excited about this," Affinity Chief Executive Jeffrey Birtch said.

The developers met with immediate neighbors of the site last February, months before the company purchased any of the properties, to get their input on what type of project would be appropriate.

"They were very clear that they weren't interested in student housing, which is something we were thinking about, so we went in a different direction," Chason said.

The company assembled the eleven property site from five separate owners at a cost of $2.06 million.

With plans to start construction next year, Chason will have little competition in the new-build city condo market when units are available in late-2011.  Ellicott Development has sold 29 of 49 units in the recently-completed Pasquale at Waterfront Place

On Delaware Avenue, Uniland Development expects to have its 27 residential units in the Avant sold by mid-2010.  Residents will start moving into the glass-skinned building this fall.

Other condominium projects on the horizon include the FJF Development's Elmwood Village Condo project, Uniland's proposed tower on Gate Circle, a possible second tower at Waterfront Place, and two projects in Waterfront Village- 30 townhouses by NEMO Development and eight town homes along with 18 condos in a mid-rise building at Casa Luce.

Chason's project must still undergo an environmental review and obtain City approvals.


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To be honest I liked the design of the failed hotel project better. Its wasteful on many levels to hack down several viable properties in an area that is succssful because of its density and unique atmosphere. It would be nice to see somthing this ambitious proposed at Elmwood and Auburn over the Willson farms or over the EV's numerous suburban style gas stations.

I will say its nice to see the developer go out of their way to involve the local residents before this was made public. Its also good to see a more diverse project involving retail residential and hospitality. Although if the last proposal failed, Im not sure why this one wont.

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Well well well... Are they just going to fight to change the deed restrictions. Hope they win, this would be a good project for Elmwood and the city!

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My son lives on Grainger Place and when I go and visit with him finding a parking place is always a challenge and he lives a block from the "business district"....while the amount of rules ,regulations, and building codes are prohibitive on any city project, some planning must go into the design phase to account for the amount of vehicles expected at any given project....building a fifty unit complex could easily bring 75 vehicles into an already congested and over taxed area.... so an equal amount of space for the projected vehicles should be mandatory for any project....let the develpoers be responsible...I am sure they will be expecting subsidies

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I have never had trouble parking in this area.

Sounds to me like they told the neighbors - Student housing will be built unless you release the deed restrictions. That is how you play poker!

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wow0wow! Great news to wake up to. This design screams big city. The old hotel looks so dull in comparison. Hopefully this doesnt turn into some long battle. get it done!

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It's difficult to judge from one image, but this exciting design looks markedly better than the typical gimmicky Wyndham design. The issues regarding parking will probably not be resolved to anyone's satisfaction but that's the tradeoff when density truly begins to happen. In this economic climate, it's great that a quality concept has the opportunity to move forward. I hope Buffalo's rickety political system doesn't doom this scenario.

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I do like this project, but it seems a little big for that area. I think the old project fit in with the neighborhood better. I would like to see something like this closer to downtown.

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over the course of my life, i have been inside all of these properties.each of them has been butchered to accommodate retail frontage, and some rental space. although i am against destroying usable homes in the city, none of these structures would be a loss. they are only shells of what they once were. please look at the big picture, tear them down and bring this corner into the twenty first century.

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This would be amazing if it is actually built. This design is almost too nice for that area. A big change from those run down houses that were there. Seems like projects like this would encourage more developers to come to the Elmwood area.

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I think they did a nice job on the design and it could blend in well because its at the gateway to Elmwood. If it was proposed anywhere else on Elmwood it would look out of place.

Think about being in Buffalo for the first time, driving south on Elmwood Ave and seeing this beautiful building. In my mind it sets a tone for the area, its large and modern. Like you're driving into the start of a different area.

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Bring on the armchair architect comments. I like the design for downtown, for the cobblestone district or trying to create new development on Michigan, but I think its totally out of scale and context for this neighborhood. It's going to be a very urban building in a neighborhood that's residential and small retail establishments. The Savarino plan seemed to better mesh with the neighborhood with its diminuitive and underspoken design. I just don't understand where it will go in the scheme of things, most likely that building is going to be on an island and stand out.

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I can't disagree with the overscaled-ness of this proposal as opposed to the Savarino one but this kind of highly urbanized development can singlehandedly raise the ante for other properties in the area which means that the scale of the surrounding neighborhood might ultimately match this project. And that's a debate worth having. Can the Elmwood neighborhood sacrifice the residential density of a busy section so that new ammenities and a denser urban nexus can rise? Perhaps Elmwood can have a dumbell of density with buildings like this to the south, closer to Downtown, and to the north where a dense node segues well with the Richardson Complex and BSC. And while 8 stories is somewhat high for the area, it ain't no La Defense.

replied to nick
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what "scheme of things" are you talking about? nothing on this entire block, both sides has changed in over fifty years, except for Pano's. if anything this is the scheme of things to come for Elmwood. unless the scheme of things to you, is to leave all the crappy houses we can on Elmwood until they fall down, then build new crappy houses to last another hundred years.(yes, that's what we need to do nick!!!)

replied to nick
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You know, I don't buy the "can never find parking" bit. I frequent that area quite often and never had a problem. I also lived over there for years and never had anyone complain to me about it.

Yeah, you might have to walk a block or two, but big deal. It's not the suburbs.

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Please build this as quickly as possible. Thank you.

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It is not going to stay the same picture perfect place you fell in love with. People want to live near the park, other than downtown this is the only area that tall condo buildings have demand for, i`d let them build 40 story condo towers if someone wanted to. Otherwise you're just holding the city back.

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Saying that a building is "OUT OF PLACE" is the most inefficient argument you can make, that is just so constricting. How many large apartment buildings on Delaware were once considered out of place?? Is anyone still concerned that Pano's is out of place, nobody will care in 5 years.

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I think the proposal is a big statement for Buffalo and Elmwood.

Hope it goes through all the hoops relatively unscathed.

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I think this looks great and is an awesome idea. It will be a great compliment to the area to go along with the modern design of the Burchfield-Penney Art Center, and even Pano's to an extent. Hopefully this trend continues in the area.

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Yes, hopefully this trend will hold the current local business owners to a higher standard. Whether that means updating what they have or just maintaining a space that contributes to the area. We need to attract people. This is progress.

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This project definitely raises the bar for development in Buffalo. Awesome news. Hopefully they are able to remove the deed restrictions without much delay.

I think Steel might be right about the neighbors. At first I was confused as to why they would support this project after fighting tooth-and-nail against the previous one that was only half the size. The thought of off-campus housing in their backyards must have put everything into perspective.

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@steel, I live on granger place and thankfully have a garage to park in, otherwise I would be parking either on bird or forest if I came home after 6pm. I really wouldn't mind parking on a side street, but older people, or those with children most likely would.

our city needs to think about a parking permit system that would gtive residents of streets near busy commercial districts like this a sticker to put on their car allowing them to park overnight. anyone that doesn't have the sticker (and most likely doesn't live on that street) wouldn't be able to.

I love how close I live to all the action on elmwood, the albright-knox, the burchfield and the park so I understand a lack of parking will go with those amenities. However, a development like this (that I fully support) would bring in dozen and dozens of cars that park overnight.

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Perhaps I'm not understanding your logic about multiple dozens of cars needing overnight parking b/c of this project. The article states that enclosed parking for 160 cars is to be included. The bulk of this project is a 125-bed hotel. How many people bring more than one car with them to a hotel? Assuming that the 20 condos actually happen and have up to 40 reserved spaces included in the 160 number, that leaves 120 parking spaces for a 125 bed hotel. Even if the place was at capacity, and one room = one car, you have 5 cars that won't fit into the enclosed parking area.

Parking associated with whatever retail goes in on the ground floor shouldn't create an overnight parking problem. I'm not saying there won't be some spillover occassionally, but I just don't see how it will create a permanent problem for neighborhood sidestreets.

Either way, I think this project looks great and I hope it gets done.

replied to stephenjames716
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Stephenjames.

In all the years I have driven to this part of Elmwood I have never needed to park on any side streets to do my business. The likelihood of this project adding overnight parking to side streets is non existent. Hotel guests and residents are going to park in the building.

There are much bigger cities that have neighborhoods with much more business and much more density and far less parking in which people pay big bucks to be in. I think Buffalo should only hope for the problem of difficult parking. It is a sign that things are going right.

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Haven't we been through this before? There is no way that this project is going to happen...this project is even more unlikely than that "old timey" hotel was. If it was downtown i could see it, but not here. Developers were un able to pull off a relevantly modest project because of neighborhood opposition, what makes them think that a much more ambitious project will fly?

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Haven't we been through this before? There is no way that this project is going to happen...this project is even more unlikely than that "old timey" hotel was. If it was downtown i could see it, but not here. Developers were un able to pull off a relevantly modest project because of neighborhood opposition, what makes them think that a much more ambitious project will fly?

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I applaud this for Elmwood and Forest, infact, id like to see the Mental Health Building torn down and the urban feel of Buffalo State and Burchfield Penny extendend to Elmwood/Forest....then the Richardson can occupy Forest between Elmwood and Rees.

I never for a minute thought that the Richardson should be a boutique hotel....however this new development places a premium on the quality Conference Facilities that the Richardson could provide, as well as, presidential libraries (Cleveland and Fillmore), etc.

Prediction: The regeneration of Elmwood/Forest with this 8-story building and the regeneration of the Richardson will have profound impacts for GRANT/FOREST.

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Would like to see this type of project design and usage more in the Downtown Core - and could be a great asset to the regeneration of Main Street that could incorporate this new design - replacing buildings not worth saving. Love this project though - get it done!!! Please.

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since the parking is going to be on the first and second floor floor....it is going to be what we call here on the west cost a 'dingbat'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingbat_(building)
lets just hope it will not be as bad as this one, which was voted the ugliest new building in all of Los Angeles last year. (trust me, it had stiff competition)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1300/558585504_b1f61546e5_b.jpg

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I would LOVE to see this building get built, although I do think it's out of scale. Nothing else on this street is taller than 2 or 3 stories.




Please, don't anybody kill this project because it doesnt come with a parking lot.




Overall, a great project!

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@steel and reflip, I agree with you both and truly do hope this project does happen. I also agree that having to worry about parking is a good thing, as it shows that our city is bustling.

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SJ- Did you go to the neighborhood meeting? If so, what was the reaction to the proposal???

replied to stephenjames716
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1. You could say this is out of scale with the area. You could also say that it establishes a new, better, denser scale for the area.

2. If we want Elmwood to be successful, we have to let it grow in ways that successful strips grow. If we cry over every tattoo parlor and music shop that is forced to leave, we hinder the growth of Elmwood and the areas where those places relocate.

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It is only out of scale if you want to hold the status quo. City 'progress' is seen as bigger denser buildings being built. Only allowing in 2-3 story buildings will create a very boring and mundane atmosphere.


Elmwood of all places deserves to have this kind of development. It has a base of amenities and nearby attractions that almost nowhere else in the city has. You can get a room here, take a bus downtown, walk to Olmsted parks, FLW houses and art galleries. This IS where the density should be.


I hope it raises the bar for the neighborhood and the strip overall. And for residents fearing this being built on theri street... it won't happen.


Elmwood is commercial, mixed use. Granger, and all the others are purely residential streets and the codes associated with building there wouldn't allow this.

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Yes, this building would fit nicely on Main Street, Niagara Street in another 10 years perhaps. Particularly the UB, Canisius and/or Midtown areas

Yes, this building would fit nicely on DELAWARE or HERTEL too! HINT! HINT!

Sadly, without the light rail airport corridor, there are no worthy east-west corridors worthy of this building that I can think.

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BRING IT!!!

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Steel

As much as I generally agree with and enjoy your posts, are we living in the same city? You can't honestly tell me that you have never had park on a side-street to do your business. Trying to park on Elmwood on a Friday/Saturday night is impossible.

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I've had difficulty finding parking on the Elmwood strip and its side streets from time to time. It's at those moments that Buffalo starts to resemble a real city to me. I say let there be traffic jams, let their be gridlock, and encourage this project to move forward. Buffalo may kick and scream its way into the 21st century, but it will get there sooner or later.

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This is a great design. It significantly addresses one of Buffalo's significant intersections, and seems to make great strategic use of the views available there of the Richardson-Olmsted Complex and museum district, from a building high enough to take advantage of them.


Parking in that area could be helped by having streetside parking available on both sides of Elmwood to the north, and both sides of Forest to the west -- something being looked at in the Richardson-Olmsted planning, I believe.


It will be unfortunate if the houses currently there are demo'd -- I'd love to see a plan for them to be relocated or deconstructed.

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Great project. Perhaps they are unveiling this design, which is very large, expecting to get a battle. Then they will redesign with a slightly smaller scale project to appease the nieghbors.

It will be a signature gateway to the elmwood village.

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Chason will get this built... They wouldnt spend on all the property if they didnt have an inkling they would get all restrictions and covenants lifted

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noone would build this on Main street...the reason its even being built is because of the prime Elmwood Forrest location...duh

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it is funny but true, they probably did say either this or a student housing complex. good, the nimby's need to be stopped eventually

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Well, I was just over there for dinner at Saigon and I still have mixed emotions...I'd love to think something nice could be done with the existing structures...but nothing has been done with them in my lifetime, so maybe this project is an improvement. And, in some respects I too preferred the prior project design...but what the hell, let's go with this and get it done. I just will frequent the area in off hours as I can't fathom the increased traffic congestion it will produce.

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Wonderful. Bring it on. It's long overdue, and a great second chance after the hotel plan was axed. The NIMBY losers need to get over the fact that SOMETHING is going to be developed on this site. Better this than a gas station or section 8 housing.

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The parking thing is relatively moot. This area doesn't have a parking problem. Anytime I have gone you can get a spot nearby. Do we park AT the destination of choice... no. But as others have said, that is a part of what makes Elmwood so great. You actually feel like a city. You can go downtown, anytime of day and find a spot near your destination... What does that make it feel like? a ghost town. Be happy there is a 'parking problem' because that actually means there are PEOPLE there.


Plus this development is going add 160 NON EXISTENT spots. That is a huge amount of parking for this area.

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Parking for residents of side streets can be addressed by installing "resident only" permit parking on these streets.

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I agree that when it's difficult to park on Elmwood that is really feels like the city is alive. It was refreshing yesterday walking around the strip after grabbing some lunch at Wasabi (which, btw, their lunch specials are incredibly reasonable) seeing everyone out walking around and doing some shopping or eating. At the same time, if more parking can be added in an "urban fashion" it would be a good thing. I know many people that do twink twice going to Elmwood for dinner on the weekend if they don't want to deal with the parking. Either way, the abundance of people on the street is a good thing.

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REES STREET AND FOREST, THEN GRANT AND FOREST ARE THE BEST AREAS FOR STUDENT RESIDENCES.

Id like to see the homes along Grant, Hawley, Dart replaced with dormatory towers.

and by the way...it would be awesome if the Buffalo State Bookstore could be on Grant Street and follow Rochester colleges with a 2 story Barnes and Noble.

Buffalo State has so much potential...but I believe it will never happen as long as Howard remains an {deleted} incapable of doing anything more than secretarial and administrative work.

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Am I the only on who thinks that whats there now looks like a set from 'Coal Miners Daughter'?

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This project is way too advanced for our little sh!t hole city. Someone, somewhere, will find a way to F this up!

I will never understand how broke hippi liberals on Elmwood carry so much weight...oh, I know...they eat pizza and wings every night....hhhhaaaaaaaaa

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This looks amazing, now if it had a roof top pool and bar....

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mmmm I agree, a swank rooftop bar, sweet deal!

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Totally enclosed and hidden parking, built up to the street with retail on ground floor and mixed use. Too good to happen but if it does it shouldbe held as a precident for future new builds.

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wtf is with the parking argument? Buffalo is a CITY, and within any city worth a ****, it is extremely difficult to park. I have never heard such *****ing about parking.

"Wahhhhh, I can't park, this city sucks."

Are you kidding me?

I know it is difficult to imagine having to walk 2 or 3 blocks to get to a shop or a restaurant, but somehow every person who has lived in an real city in this country has managed. Work off those wings you fatass!

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Like it a lot. Much better than Savarino proposal. Hope it wins approval and financing (though not subsidized).


I like that the retail not only hides the parking, but especially that the upper floors are set back behind the retail--just like lots of Elmwood storefronts. This setback makes the height of the structure much less imposing.


I'm sure Steel's correct about the threat of student housing if this isn't approved. Viable, natural threat.


As for parking, this is an incredibly good plan. Hidden from the street, protected from the elements, sufficient for the need, retail fronting the street: this is exactly for what everyone cries.


I've had to park a block or two away on Elmwood. If these retail spaces are successful, street parking will be much tighter (the retail in those houses didn't spark much demand). Parking on Granger is not easy. Btw: anyone seen Pano's new lot when it wasn't packed?

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This is a great plan.
Get it done Buffalo!

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When we emphasize quick, convenient parking in an urban neighborhood, we lose the 'urban' in the neighborhood. See Detroit and then see Toronto. For the former parking is a chief consideration. For the later, parking is virtually irrelevant. Go to Transit Road if you want easy parking.

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Me, I can walk a few blocks from time to time. It's good me...and the neighborhood.

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Parking issue is solved by allowing it both on Penhurst and northward on Elmwood. This will add hundreds of spots, extend Elmwood Village parking and the attendant traffic calming that parking on both sides of Elmwood allows to the south of Forest.

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Wow, no "pretty drawing" comments so far. Where's all that negativity?

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the color scheme seems tacky -- but the building itself doesn't look bad...


4/5?

build it!

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I think this design sucks. Much like Frizlen's before, it is neither a nostolgic design, nor is it cutting edge. (the two building types that would probably be most appropriate for that corner). Instead, it is a contrived and inappropriatley large. the facade is a mess of architectural styles that may work in a "lifestyle center" but this is Elmwood, it says nothing about the neighborhood that it is supposed to be a gateway for. On the contrary, it paints a picture of twenty story condo towers and pedestrian unfriendly intersections. There are many examples of mixed use devleopment coming out of large cities that are this size and are designed really well. Unforutnaley this building, as it is just falls way short.

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I didn't realize that the architect for this development was tasked with "saying something about the neighborhood that it is supposed to be a gateway for". What would be the appropriate dialect? Five story victorian with overhanging pediment? And since this is a commercial project, it carries that theme quite well. "cutting edge" could hardly be done with that budget at that location. What was needed here was something solidly straightforward and viable because so few projects of its type get built in this city. Cry me a river about this one in twenty years when the rest of Buffalo is all cutting edge like Toronto and maybe I'll well up too.

replied to Arch
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This is just an awkward and ugly building. It looks as if the design was snatched out of Toronto, or better yet one of the vertical suburbs along the QEW. You are right in that there are too few oppurtunities in Buffalo to make buildings that can have a positive impact on the community, so yes, each is fodder for scrutuny, especially on BR. At the end of the day, this is just not a good looking building, moreover what is proposed is NOT very budget friendly. This building could be redesigned to look better, and come in under that $25M price tag. There is a general theory in this community that anything that is new is good, and worthwhile. well i tend to lean towards what is worth while is somehting that enhances the sence of place of our region. This project does not, and yes THAT is the architect's job.

replied to sonyactivision
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Arch: what do you envision on this parcel? Any local modern buildings you particularly admire that you think should be held up as exemplars?


I think the design works, myself. What would you change and why do you say $25m is too much?

replied to Arch
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If you can't be subtle, then be interesting. This design is neither. I cannot argue with the program of the building, i think Elmwood needs a developer who is undetered by local blabbermouths. with that being said, i had hoped that the developer had some design sensibility. I think the Condo project on Gates circle is a nice design, as well as the New build on Delaware Ave, a couple doors down from The Church. I also think that the Erie county Saftey building is WAY interesting! My point is, for twenty five million dollars, the designer is paying for a lot of bobbles and setbacks in the building tht could be spend on something more interesting ie: a design oriented architect.

The size of this devleopment seems inappropriate as well. This will be awkwardly Huge on that corner!

replied to biniszkiewicz
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I LOVE it!!!! I want to see it done!!! It would have WONDERFUL impact on Elmwood AND Grant! It's about time! Just keep Tim Tielman and other nay sayers away from it.

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We can all thank Tim and " naysayers " like Tim for the Central Wharf that we have and love today do we remember " Save don't Pave " ? There are many projects in this city that have positive influence from naysayers and our community's are better because of them. My Community would be living under a diesel,soot admitting truck bridge if not for naysayers.....NIMBY .....obstructionalist or my favorite.....Advocate.

replied to LuvBuffalo
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What does Tim Tielman have to do with this project?

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THIS PROJECT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AND NEITHER WILL BASS PRO! WAIT AND SEE SABRE FANS!

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PaulBuffalo,

I don't think most people anywhere want traffic jams and gridlock--those are not signs of a beautiful and livable city. I know the point you're trying to make, and I respect it, but many people live in more moderate-sized and even paced cities like Buffalo so they don't face the constant friction of mega city-states like New York and Toronto, both places I'm elated to no longer call home.


The term "real city" condescends (I've also heard it applied to Los Angeles--that it's not a real city, for different reasons). But Buffalo is about as real as it gets...we have ancient and vexing problems but we are refreshingly aware of them. And as you know from this site, many people in Buffalo are hoisting the city back on its feet. What could be more 21st century than that kind of grassroots citizenship? Buffalo, like all older Northern cities (including Chicago) is losing population, but it doesn't need anyone to drag it kicking and screaming into 2009. I can think of other places--Hollywood, Las Vegas, Phoenix--that could use a seminar in reality much more than Buffalo.

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EricOak, yes, you know the point I was trying to make: a visual sense of vitality is very important to a city that has the infrastructural bones of Buffalo. I surely could've used another term besides 'real city', but I was applying that term to the sense of vitality, too, in addition to a sense of daring with which Buffalo must reacquaint itself. A daring nature produced all of the great architecture in western New York, but the lack of bold new structures for over a generation has been discouraging.


I think there are many on this website who don't want Buffalo to succeed and it's to those folks that I aimed my 'kicking and screaming' comment. I remain surprised that there are still so many folks who live in Buffalo that think of their home as a backwater.

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I love...
The concept: Condos, hotel space and underground parking, built to the curb, etc are all badly needed on this street

The boldness: Good for them to have the courage to go after all those deed restrictions and pesky neighbors. We could use a few more buffalonian developers with such courage.

The scale: Eight stories is perfectly fine. I am all for more mid-rise buildings on the strip. The more 4-10 story buildings on Elmwood ave the better. It creates a more vibrant, enclosed, and urban feel. I reference Europe.

Do not love...
The design: "There would be nothing else like this in Buffalo. It's more like something you'd see in Toronto" that isn't something we should aspire too.

Keep every single aspect of the project and make it a little bit less suburban Toronto and this as an A+ in my book

I wish them the best of luck in any event

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The outside does seem a little busy, but the number of balconies will do that. For being filled with balconies, it does not look too bad on the upper floors. The lower facade is nicely differentiated from the upper floors and the corner is given a bright airy design element.

It does much more for making a statement on that corner than the previous plans.

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It looks great. It will definitely bring even more life and excitement to the already busy block. This project will be successful and lead to further investment/develoment around it. I liked the old design but this one is nice too. Either way...I can't wait to see it complete.

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