Living At The Rock

A great start to a new neighborhood. Not a fan of those parking lots but if we get to that point... I would be quite happy. Can worry about in fill later! Keep up the vision and good work.

Squaw Island is a real asset to this area. Beautiful views and park. Fishing, sledding, swimming (kinda sorta).

Also being right near Niagara like that gives students a direct bus line to the boulevard mall and NF boulevard area or straight to downtown depending on which direction they go.

I'll believe it when I see it.

this is amazing. I cant wait to watch it all unfold. I hope people are jumping on this opportunity. Once this is done everyone will wish they applied to RHV.

I agree this will do amazing things for the surrounding neighborhoods. Once this is complete it will draw a lot of attention- and hopefully give homeowners incentive to fix up their homes and neighborhoods. Ed- this is a huge project- your doing an awesome thing for this neighborhood, college students, and the city of buffalo. Keep it up!

PS -Don't let negative talk, and city issues discourage you! Its bound to happen if it hasn't already!

This is a great project that will add to the momentum that is beginning to build here in Black Rock. Our neighborhood is the oldest intact community in Buffalo and we are presently working to develop a historic district in the Amherst and East St area. St Francis Church is being converted to a museum of religious arts and Amherst St. has attracted some of the art related business that once would have gone to Elmwood or Allen. Good luck to Ed and associates.
Oh and bufflow, do you ever have anything positive to say?

QE, what percentage do you own in this project...you really push this like no other...

He probably doesn't have a penny invested, instead he is doing the exact thing that BRO was setup to do. Promote and get the word out about projects and positive things happening in Buffalo that other media outlets ignore. Perhaps he just feels strongly that this is a good project for the three neighborhoods that it could potentially bridge. Black Rock and that part of the west side can use all the help and positive developments they can get. This could be a key stabilizing a large neighborhood. That is something worth every article and time spend letting people know what is happening.

ass- QE pushes everything he truly believes in. I have seen just as much effort in many other topics that were successful.

Lafayette Park, Detroit anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OROh-5c92Ag

This concept has potential but the design looks a little bland for my tastes.

This guy has a lot of guts. I hope he can pull it off.
The renderings aren't convincing enough (the bridge crashing into the building).
Who's the architect?

That rendering looks wonderful. I'm sure it will go well with the virtual world Rock Harbor has created for their Commons building. This building has 6 months to be transformed from a dilapidated sheet metal sided warehouse into an actual livable space. I do hope itleast that gets done, or those students are out of their nonrefundable 250 dollar deposits.

Currently the bike path and creek run totally underneath the 198. There wont be room for those pretty trees and greenspace. Unless of course they reroute the highway or creek, which i'm sure Ed has plans for.

The building connected to the Commons building has probably a hundred or so code violations. The structure inside is actually so bad that i doubt it can be rehabbed. The toxic pigeon **** buildup inside there is alone enough reason to condemn it.

If we all could turn ourselves into digital figures or cartoon characters, then i might start getting excited about Rock Harbor.

Rock Harbor doesn't bother me any because it's privately funded. I wish the RH entrepreneurs total success as long as they continue to not ask for any taxpayer handouts for it.

But then again, it's not me who's full of angst and puzzlement about growing decline of the Grant Street area.

Anyone else see any irony that Queenseyes and others are thrilled at new residential housing in a "new neighborhood" formerly not residential... while at the same time they're the same ones who also complain most about decline of the Grant St area (which is due in no small part to growing vacancy rates nearby - on streets where a lot of students used to rent)? Seems inconsistent but whatever.

I wish we could live in the Buffalo that all of these renderings portray. Imagine how the city would look if we actually achieved the vision and dreams displayed in all of the drawings over the years. We would have an amazing waterfront, beautiful skyline, renovated buildings and new builds to rival the most magnificent structures in any city, beautiful parks, and multi-use buildings that are built to the curb throughout the safe, walkable, tree lined streets of Buffalo.

Unfortunately, we have thousands of these drawings that are rarely brought to fruition. We might see some renovations at this site, but nothing like the package that the architect and developer are selling. I wish the best for the people of Black Rock who so desperately need revitalization and hope in their community, they are pinning a lot on this project. Unfortunately, our long track record of mediocrity and infeasibility has jaded me to the point that I won't believe it until I see it.

1) Why is this not being done by Buffalo State (Mrs. Howard!)?
1) Refusing 10,000 students a year, refusing to build academic buildings, residence buildings or expand programs is NOT what I would put into the area of leadership, competence or accomplishment. Qualities one would think should be present in the president of a College but then we must make allowances for gender, minority and tenured political appointments. Howards record at Buffalo State is empty of accomplishments unrelated to basic clerical planning and status quo quotas. Buffalo State has is a clerk masquerading as a president and the entire college and community suffer for it!

2) This project sits at the meeting points of three 1890s neighborhoods: BlackRock, Westside and the Elmwood/Cultural/Park community. Why is it being designed like suburban Amherst where someone has to walk a half mile to their car?

3) What is the status of that other Student Resident Project at the Pearce Arrow (Car Manufacturing) Complex?

It looks like a suburban office park in the large rendering. It was urbanism before all that prdictable parking. Yes, you need parking, but why not shove all of it into one corner or build a lovely historicist ramp? The parking layout looks like some sort of attempt to democratize parking spaces so no one has to walk too far. Pathetic.

QUEENSEYES: Do you have a financial interest in the Rock Harbor Commons project?

BRO readers have a right to full disclosure. Failure to answer will force us to assume you do have an interest.

Although I am thrilled to see this site being reused, I think most students would enjoy their college experience more if they rented one of the many avail flats in the buff state-elmwood area. Its much cheaper and much more fun. Who needs cafateria food when you can walk to coles and goodbar? Plus you get your own room and dont have to sleep on bunkbeds.

Does anyone actually know the projected cost of this project? It seems to me this would cost tens of millions to create a college neighborhood. Just to detoxify the land renovate the buildings, and create the infrastructure would be outrageous. Seems a little hard to believe with out the financing options. But either way good luck. It is funny that people actually already criticize the architecture.

I might be counting wrong as the search function here is a bit squirrely, but there have been over 20 articles about Rock Harbor in the past 10 months or so on this site. Which outstrips coverage of any other event, project, individual or topic.




If Newell or any of his associates are paid by Ed or any companies Ed is affiliated with to market this project, it should be disclosed. It should also be disclosed if anyone has a financial interest in the project itself or surrounding properties. This is a kinda sorta blog/kinda sorta magazine, but we shouldn't follow kinda sorta ethics.




It doesn't mean that this isn't a great project, but trust with readers is important.

Thanks for your concern Chris. Truly. Ed and I have been working together to launch a new website that showcases Buffalo as a college town. I am 1/3 owner in that enterprise - the site will be launching in approx one month. That means that I meet with Ed about 5x a week to discuss the site and the launch, etc. Whenever we discuss the site, we discuss Rock Harbor. To me this is one of the most exciting projects that I have ever had the opportunity to follow. I like the environmental angle, the student angle, the service learning component, the community anchor component, the art and music, the industrial reuse, the water and bike path use, the growth opportunity, the partnership prospects... when I first met with Ed, I saw how excited he was, and told him that I would help in any way that I could. I told him that it had been a dream of mine to position Buffalo as a college town, and was frustrated that cities like Syracuse could do it and Buffalo could not. We realized that we were both on the same page in so many ways that we began to meet for coffee. I told Ed that his dream of a student village was so much more than just a connection to Buffalo State. For example, I suggested that he enter a float in the Amherst Street parade to show his allegiance to the neighborhood; and now we have regular meetings at Sweetness_7 Café to show our commitment to another up and coming neighborhood. Considering that I work on BRO as an unpaid owner, I am finding my work niche with the people I have developed relationships with through my writings. I am committed to helping Ed get this project up and running because to me it's like ‘SimCity’. He has listened to my ideas and is genuinely enthusiastic in the prospect of taking back our city. When I find like-minded people like Ed who want to promote their projects, I'll do whatever it takes to get it done. If any other exciting developer out there wants to share with me his or her visions for a district of the city, I'll write as many articles as possible. As a matter of fact, they can join us for brainstorming sessions every Monday and Wednesday morning at Sweetness_7 Cafe on Grant Street (send me an email to newell@buffalorising.com). And look for the new regional collegiate website to launch... hopefully in one month's time!

I almost forgot. If you're concerned about my postings on Rock Harbor, I should also disclose my interest in Rusty Chain Beer. I am a Board Member of Go! Buffalo, the parent organization of Blue Bike. That's why I write so many articles on The Chain. Buffalo Rising has become a community portal (even for me). I encourage anyone to write about any project that they are working on in the city and submit it to me. If you want to write a series on a particular project, that is great! Remember that you will need to include images along with your writings. Also, be sure to tell me whether you are interested in occasional submissions, or would like to be an ongoing contributor (music, arts, development, food, etc.) - newell@buffalorising.com.

1. Imagine that this project domes to fruition, and students flock to live there. Unless these are students who would otherwise live with their folks, doesn't this project simply draw them away from already existing neighborhoods? Where's the benefit to the city in harming existing neighborhoods to create a new "village?"

2. Queencity = chris69/buffaloweiner/timmy, and he's still obsessed with Muriel Howard. He also thinks that violent sexual assaults are funny.

3. Chris' point seems valid to me. I was struck by the volume of posts on this topic, and wondered whether someone had a stake in it. And although Newell's response explains his interest in the topic, it doesn't actually address Chris' questions. Just sayin'.

4. Off topic -- where is Gaustad? This place is boring without him.

After taking another look I think the design is horrible and the comparison to a suburban office park in Amherst is a perfect description.

HOW DOES ONE EXPECT BUFFALO TO BECOME A COLLEGE TOWN WHEN THE 2ND LARGEST COLLEGE IN WNY IS RUN BY HOWARD AT BUFFALO STATE (AND BECAUSE OF TENURE, MINORITY/GENDER STATUS AND POLITICAL PROTECTIONS) WILL NOT EXPAND THE COLLEGE!

NO EXPANSION INTO NEW PROGRAMS
NO EXPANSION IN STUDENT POPULATION
NO EXPANSION OF ACADEMIC BUILDINGS
NO EXPANSION OF STUDENT RESIDENCES
THERE ISNT EVEN EXPANSION OF STUDENT PARKING OR PARTNERSHIPS WITH THE NFTA.

The same must be said for Medaille which is land locked and really needs to sell to Canisius and be searching for a new urban campus.

Furthermore, there is a HUGE problem with Buffalo colleges offering nothing but generic degree programs and omitting a HUGE number of vocation, 2-4 year programs need in Buffalo and WNY.

Id love to see Buffalo situated as a college town (especially for the westside and black rock areas) but the level of insularity in Buffalo approaches insanity.

Well, If three or four other people hadn't asked the same question of Newell prior to my posting in the thread, I guess you could say "I have a thing" about it. I asked a followup question that other people asked in this thread and that has been asked before in previous posts about RH.




We address emails and questions like this all the time on our site when we write about a business or politician, so it's really not out of the ordinary for someone to ask a similar question here. In fact, the commenters here are a bit hyperdefensive when such a question is asked. Rather odd...




So, Newell is in business with Ed on a tangential project to market Buffalo as a college town and Ed is currently working on a development which will improve their ability to claim this is a college town. Neither my question nor this comment should be classified as an accusation that something untoward is going on. On the contrary, it's a great project (as I wrote earlier) and now everyone has full disclosure.

Queenseyes/Newell: thanks for the clarification. Now readers can focus on the project(s) itself and not waste time worrying that there is some underhanded agenda.

Well the design basically reuses what few buildings are left and then fills in the areas with parking and greenspace. Maybe it is office park like but once the buildings get rehab'd THEN we can think about what to do with the space between.

As for the comments this pulling students out of the neighborhoods, I don't think this is necessarily going to do that. I doubt there are many, if any, Buff state students near Grant anymore.

Those that want to live in the Elmwood village will continue to do so but there are projects like this popping up all over in Amherst. They are building another one in Cheektowaga. These student communities where there are college level amenities but without the college restrictions. They are basically only competing with on campus dorms or apartments.

If Buffalo doesn't build one of these the students that want a T1 internet connection, cable included, and other students around them but don't want the over regulated atmosphere of being physically on campus are going to be living on Sweethome or in Cheektowaga. It is a market, and Buffalo needs to have this options for students before the market is cornered elsewhere.

Houses and apartments are great, but often students don't want to deal with the day to day stuff that being a proper renter is about. That is why they fill the hundred of apartment buildings and complexes that dot the region. This would just be another one of those.

The parking lots would be unnecessary if a more traditional street design was used. A simple grid incorporating some of the old streets on this property would provide blocks of on street parking that would be more convenient as well as more compatible with the historic neighborhood.

It is sorta milktoast urbanism. . . not that i want to see buildings sit and go fallow, it really is reminiscent of an office park - even the interconnecting roadways

Without the ability for infill to organically grow between buildings, there isnt really reason to move there - its isolated. Basically its a gated community in the frontier at the confluence of Black Rock & the West Side (whether that palisade is actually a fence, or just the area's geography).

Can you really attract students to an pseudo-urban environment? I think they can smell artificiality a miles off. It needs amenities besides a theatron and sculpture garden (it makes it sound like a somewhat bland county park), it needs genuine amenities for the college crowd: corner stores, dives and coffee shops. Otherwise, why not just go to UB North?

I really like BRL's comment about a traditional street grid and parking.

One last thing, this layout seems eerily reminiscent of the current configuration of the harbor. All it needs is a Shanghai Reds.

I still don't see where the students are going to come from. Lots of BSC students live between Grant and Elmwood, and the rent they pay helps stabilize those neighborhoods. Taking them out of those neighborhoods and putting them into what is now essentially empty space seems like a lateral move, at best.

lifer --

If we've learned anything from chris69, it's that Buff State will never expand as long as Muriel Howard remains black and female.

Seriously, though, if this project helped BSC to expand, that'd be huge. Does anyone know if the developer is talking to the school?

For an "urban" project, it's quite surprising how un-urban the road layout, parking etc is. It is set-up to remain a car-based island. It has enough challenges in having the 198 ramps to the south, the creek and 198 to the east, and Amherst St. being quite far to the north with nothing to bridge it at this time.

I didn't catch if the West Ave bridge was to reopened but it should be. Couple that with laying out roads (Watts area) for another connection across the creek to get to the Letchworth St. area and over toward the Buff State campus. Especially if the current Buffalo Impound Yard comes down. Leave all road frontages open for future developemnt and squeeze the parking mid-blocks so one day it will be unnoticible. no parking at any street frontage. This will give the chance of a continuous thread of development over to the capmus along these streets, giving hope to creating investment in the in-between neighborhood along the way.

The current layout above gives no one a reason to walk anywhere, even within the development itself, muchless spur development around it. You can render as many people was you want in the scketches but they will not show up in this type of environment.

The green space is wasted area, especially within the parking. Has anyone ever seen people hang out in the these areas between parking islands? The large geeen space is set back away from the buildings (and life within them)resulting in it being underused. The most sucessful parks have activity right along side them, bringing users in and making those users feel safe. Right now it just has parking to draw users in and as a deterent to those wanting to walk over.

This is a great endeavor and I wish all involved the best. But after 70 years of auto-centric island designs in our urban areas, I'm continually amazed to see this same type of design put out to the same results over and over.

I'm very concerned about what the eventual Rock Harbor Village would look like. Not all development is good development and I don't like what I see so far. It worries me that someone in charge there is responsible for painting those horrible graphics on the side of the building. As long as I'm on a rant, I love the Sweetness 7 Cafe, but hate the freehand-painted graphics on the outside. This kind of thing almost never works. Shades of the Queen of Sheba convenience story on Rhode Island. The graffiti look is not good, folks!