Paterson Names Gillibrand to US Senate
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Leave a commentTake a look at her Daddy's connnections and you will see how she initially won the congressional seat and how she now has the Senate seat. (She is also a democrat in name only Pataki/Bruno/D'Amato couldn't beat Sweeney in a primary so ran her in the general as a dem)
She has more direct political experience than Hillary Clinton had when we elected her to Senator.
She voted against the bailout BOTH times
good enough for me
Who wrote this article? Who is hiding behind the anonymous "Buffalo Rising" moniker?
I wish the author(s) would use their real names. It would add a hint of integrity to this site.
SeaBee, what difference does it make who wrote this article? It doesn't appear to be an overly provocative or controversial piece of reporting.
"Buffalo Rising" can be any number of people who submit and they all go through the editor. Nothing about that seems to diminish the integrity of this site at all. If you are so concerned with integrity, why not use your real first and last name so we all know who you are?
Seems fairly unimportant to me. Just my opinion....and personally I'm just happy it wasn't Cuomo.
I am happy to see Governor Patterson appoint a woman for this seat. That is really all that matters here.
All that matters here? Really?
Yep. We lost a woman in the Senate so we need one to replace her. I am not saying that Kirsten Gillibrand is going to be nearly as effective as Hillary Clinton at first because she has some big shoes to fill. Hillary was a blessing for New York and I am sad that she is no longer fighting for our needs in the Senate. I am happy that she is now serving in a much more important role for America and I feel selfish for wishing she was still here in NY. I am happy to see that Kirsten Gillibrand was chosen over Andrew Cuomo or the other white men who typically mess up our government, it gives me hope for tomorrow. We need more people in office like Kirsten Gillibrand and Hillary Clinton. More women in government would make this country a kinder and happier place.
You are right Heather. I need only look to the successes of Condoleeza Rice, Monica Goodling,and Lurita Doan.
Heather at first I though your comments were a joke because they were so idiotic, but apparently they are not. So let me take a stab at this. So the only reason we should choose a senator is because of their sex? I also didn't realize the white people had exclusive rights to mess up government. Maybe you forgot to pull out a map and take a look of other governments that are a mess and see who are running them. I was also not blown away by anything Hillary did for NYS. In fact I think it's more of a "blessing" that she's gone.
if only it were anywhere near that simple...
how nice it must be for heather to live in such a fanciful world.
send us a postcard.
Upstate choice, and that's very positive. She provides geographic balance with the Chuckster and can relate to Buffalo better than Caroline kennedy and Andrew Cuomo. A little disappointed that Brian Higgins wasn't given more than a passing glance. He ain't perfect, but he's ours and in some ways, so is Kirsten Gillibrand.
I'm not going to follow up on the insanity spewed by Heather (aside from saying you go Girl!)but I would like to question exactly what is meant by upstate. If someone from a 100 year old political family in Albany that runs a lobbying firm for such entities as Madison Square Garden means she is one of us, I stand corrected.
All I had to see was "member of the NRA" on TV yesterday to know that I will be supporting her opponent next year.
It's an odd choice in a lot of ways. Her House seat will now be in play, and its unclear that she has the name value to win a statewide race against a prominent republican in 2010. The end result could be Patterson's party losing a seat in both the House and Senate. Picking Cuomo would have avoided both problems.
Her voting record is pretty liberal in total, clearly left of center, but not as extreme as the typical NY state member of congress (or Obama's record in the Senate).
So while it's fun to see some screaming now from some Democrats, once they calm down and look more closely at her votes over the years most will support her. I doubt there will be a serious Dem primary challenger. The state's voters are so deep blue now that I don't think any Republican could win the seat in 2010 no matter what. Losing the House seat is a minor inconvenience if that happens, considering the size of the House majority now, and that redistricting after the 2010 Census will make her former district much less Republican for the longer term.
Political difficulties of choosing Cuomo included even further angering the Kennedy faction in the party after the Caroline fiasco, the demands of several feminist groups for a female to be chosen, and the preference of both Schumer and Hillary that Gillibrand be the choice.
1. How can a person (or party) that wins a national election be called "extreme?"
2. There's going to be a primary challenge, though whether it's serious or not remains to be be seen.
3. I think there is still plenty of room for a republican to win a statewide race. We had Pataki and D'Amato for years, and similarly liberal states like Massachusetts and California had/have republican governors.
1. Careful reading would show that what was described as extreme was his Senate voting record. From dictionary.com: "extreme –adjective 1. of a character or kind farthest removed from the ordinary or average: extreme measures.
2. utmost or exceedingly great in degree: extreme joy.
3. farthest from the center or middle; outermost; endmost: the extreme limits of a town."
From http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm
"In the following list, senators are assigned liberal scores for their roll-call votes on key economic, social, and foreign policy issues during 2007. The scores on each scale are given as percentiles. The composite score measures votes across all three issue areas.
1. Obama, Barack, D-Ill. 94 94 92 95.5
2. Whitehouse, Sheldon, D-R.I. 94 88 94 94.3
3. Biden, Joseph, D-Del. 94 86 98 94.2
4. Sanders, Bernie, I-Vt. 90 88 98 93.7
5. Menendez, Robert, D-N.J. 94 92 85 92.8
6. Lautenberg, Frank, D-N.J. 94 94 79 91.7
7. Leahy, Patrick, D-Vt. 90 88 85 90.2
8. Boxer, Barbara, D-Calif. 88 87 93 89.8
9. Reid, Harry, D-Nev. 72 94 94 89.2
...15. Schumer, Charles, D-N.Y. 89 78 79 83
...17. Clinton, Hillary Rodham, D-N.Y. 87 77 83 82.8
...20. Kerry, John, D-Mass. 72 75 85 79.5
...28. Kennedy, Edward, D-Mass. 66 64 94 76.2
..."
According to that assessment of 96 senators (the other 4 missed too many votes to rank) in the year before Obama began full time campaigning for president, he was ranked 1 out of all 96 for voting the liberal position on a wide range of issues. That easily fits the dictionary definitions of extreme.
The definition of Liberal- favorable to progress and reform, open minded tolerant, free from prejudice or bigotry, generous. Wow, hate be branded as an extremist in such things.
If only we could live up to that idealistic definition of liberal. The problem is that those currently classifying themselves as liberal are only favorable to progress and reform that aligns with a very narrow line of thinking. They are not open minded, just open minded to their way of thinking, which is no different, better, or worse than those who brand themselves as conservative. Liberals are definitely not free from prejudice or bigotry and they are far from generous across the board. The liberals and conservatives are aligned on different ends of a very polarized spectrum, they both have their issues that they hold sacrosanct and feel that they are the gatekeepers and police, their role is to drive their agenda at the expense of all others. For that, I would prefer to be branded as a liberal, even though I share many of the same ideologies and thoughts. Any thought or ideal when taken to the extreme where you can no longer acknowledge or understand that other opinions or ideals are valid and exist is a problem. Most liberals are relatively closed minded to other opinions and have a hard time living without prejudice of those who they feel are a threat to their ideology.
This should say "I prefer to not be branded as a liberal".
By the way, Gillibrand's liberal ranking that same year in the House was #114 of 435, which means 26% of members voted more liberal than she did and 74% of members more conservative. That confirms what I wrote previously, that Gillibrand is clearly left of center but not extremely so.
House rankings 2007: http://www3.nationaljournal.com/voteratings//house/lib.htm
3. Governor is always an entirely different matter than senator. If Rudy runs he'll have a good chance, but no other Republican would.
MA hasn't elected had a non-incumbent Republican senator since 1967, CA not since 1983. D'Amato in 1980 was a fluke (3-way race including incumbent Javits splitting liberal vote with the Democrat), and even that was back when Republican voter percent in NY was a lot higher than now. NYS moved even farther left since. You can relax about the senate (and about gov unless Rudy runs).
Opps, forgot to carry the 1. Gillibrand was #185 of 435 according to that ranking, so 42% members were more liberal than she. Closer to center, but still left of it.
The one thing that the press seems to be focusing on is the fact that she is an NRA supporter. I heard this mentioned about a dozen times in the three minute coverage on NPR and it was the lead comment on the NBC news.
It is interesting how one affiliation or support can outweigh the rest of the credentials of a candidate. We aren't hearing about her qualifications or lack of qualifications, we are fixated on her NRA affiliation and stance on gun control. Actually, I haven't heard anything about where she stands on gun control as that specific issue. She has barely even started her job and so many of us have made up our minds based on this fact and the corresponding sound bite.
All I am saying is this shows how much the media influences our opinion and how much of a part they play in the political process. I would like to give her a shot to prove what she can do for the people of NY instead of making up my mind based on a few soundbites and leading speculation about how she was appointed, all provided by the media.
There is an interesting editorial in today's NY Times criticizing the procedure (law since 1917) wherein governors
appoint replacement senators rather than holding a special election as is done for representatives. Since 1917, 300 or one quarter of our senators have been appointed rather than democratically elected.
Ugh, people are still using the National Journal as a serious guide for "grading" a senator?
It's not really grading from my point of view, but was answering Colin's question.
DMZ, Do you prefer a diffent one than National Journal? There's many such rankings, but NJ has historically been widely used, long before Obama ever ran for office. So it's not like some obscure reference brought up to criticize him. When he ran in primary season vs. Hillary, some of Obama's progressive backers cited the NJ ranking as a reason to support him.
Anyhow, my reference to Obama's voting record was only as a comparison to Gillibrand.
When some Democrats are criticizing Gillibrand's voting record the past few days, aren't they doing so in the context of comparinig her voting record to that of others? How is that different from what I did? Or should legislators be judged only on how much pork spending they accomplish, not on how they vote on a range of issues?
Project Vote Smart offers some interesting insight on Senator Gillibrand's views. Here's my summary:
http://buffalowatch.blogspot.com/2009/01/our-newest-senator.html
she is a great pick, both sides should be happy. for the democratic side, she is liberal in her social views, for the republicans, she is pretty pro gun (as pro gun as a democrat can be) and is very conservative when it comes to fiscal issues. overall a great moderate who can just maybe do some great things.
AnswerLady's blog post lists many other groups' voting record rankings which confirm Gillibrand as solidly left-of-center.
Gillibrand is "solidly left of center"? I think maybe it depends on the definition of center. Center for those that benefit from the status quo tends to be to the right, center for the majority that do not tends to be to the left.
"solidly left of center"
A few from AnswerLady's reference:
2007 NARAL Pro-Choice America gave Gillibrand a grade of 100.
2007 Gillibrand supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) 96%.
2007-2008 Gillibrand supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 10% in 2007-2008.
2007-2008 Gillibrand supported the interests of the Conservative Index - The John Birch Society 18% in 2007-2008.
2007 Gillibrand supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 8% in 2007.
2007 Traditional Values Coalition gave Gillibrand a grade of 0.
2007-2008 National Education Association gave Gillibrand a grade of A.
2007 Gillibrand supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95% in 2007.
2007 Sargent Shriver National Center on Poverty Law gave Gillibrand a grade of A.
2007-2008, the National Organization for Women (NOW) gave Gillibrand a rating of 100%.
Many on your supposed "left list " are center moderate such as NAACP, Childrens Defense Fund, and League of Conservation Voters while those on your "right list" such as The John Birch Society, The Christian Coalition, and American Conservatives Union are FAR FAR right. In fact The John Birch Society is just right of the Ku Klux Klan.
As AnswerLady said, there's many groups which analyze Congress voting records on a wide variety of issues and publish their findings. She linked to long list, and mentioned Project Vote Smart which has even more.
As ususal, you criticize any reference info that other people post while offering none of your own as an alternative. B*tch, whine, moan, complain, blame. Business as usual.
If you don't agree with the ratings others mentioned, will you ever offer an alternative defintion to contribute to the discussion? Of course not. Your interest is in troll style disruption attacking other comments. Yawn.
Regardless of what the NAACP was formed for, its Congressional vote ratings are on a broad range of issues. A few of the issues relate to race, but many are ideological and partisan in favor of Democrat issue positions. Hardly centrist or moderate. Here's a list.
http://www.naacp.org/programs/bureau-dc/report_card/110th.Congress.First%20Session.pdf
An interesing example is Rep Lahood of Illinois, good friend of Obama's. He's widely known as a moderate centrist. In fact, Obama appointed him to the cabinet. The NAACP ratings linked above which you deserbe as moderate-centrist (and which gave Gillibrand a grade of A, page 25) gave LaHood a grade of F (page 22).
Are we to believe Obama would appoint a right wing extremist to his cabinet, or even to appoint anyone he believed had a racially insensitive voting record? Of course not. Yet the so-called moderate NAACP rating of Congress gives well-known moderate LaHood's voting record an F.
You should expect criticism of the endless statistics and arbitrary ratings that make up many of your posts. You claim that being "in favor of Democrat issue positions is hardly centrist or moderate" yet fail to acknowledge that Democrats have always been and certainly now are the majority. Seems like your center is just a little to the right of most of us.
And a few more from another reference, all from 2008, all verifiable online:
100%-NARAL/Pro-Choice America
100%-American Civil Liberties Union
95%-Americans for Democratic Action
100%-Children's Defense Fund
95%-League of Conservation Voters
89%-SEIU (a huge public employees union)
Please go to Project Vote Smart and take a look. I posted my favorites from her record. I think just about everyone will find something to like (and dislike) in Senator Gillibrand's record, which makes her perfect from my point of view.
1. To say that someone has an extreme voting record because he was ranked as the most liberal senator is correct, in a narrow sense. Of course, those 100 senators occupy a pretty narrow part of the ideological spectrum. The most liberal and most conservative senators actually share most core beliefs.
2. Those rankings are hardly a precise way of determining where someone stands. Bernie Sanders -- an avowed socialist -- is certainly to the left of someone like Obama.
3. The center moves. The most obvious (and binding) ways to determine where the center is are national elections.
Colin>"The center moves. The most obvious (and binding) ways to determine where the center is are national elections"
Shifts in defintion occur slowly as society changes, but if definitions change too fast they lose meaning.
After Reagan's two obvious (and binding) landslides in national elections, did "Reaganism" become the definition of the center? After the Gingich victory in 94, did his views automatically become the definition of the center? No and no. Likewise for Obama and Pelosi.
Hillary was a blessing for New York? Glad Paterson picked someone upstate who can relate to Buffalo? What state do you live in? Name 3 actual thing that Clinton got done while in the Senate that benifitted NYS.
Upstate New York huh? So because her district is a little north of the city and borders vermont and new hampshire shes an upstater who will be able to relate to Buffalo? I'm sorry but Upstate New York doesn't mean anything outside manhattan.
Sometimes I wonder about you people....
If Gillebrand is solidly left of center where would you be putting liberal/downstate/socialist/union loving/big government loving/....well you know the rest...
If Gillebrand is solidly left of center than the alternatives for Cuomo and Kennedy would have been radical left.....
Its been near 50 years since the senate seats were shared between upstate senator and a downstate senator...and now through miracle of chance...upstate is represented again. We should be greatful....and their nocking her why? Because downstate loud mouth big nosers wants to own both senators? To f-g bad!
BRO, more anti-semitism from Chris69/Buffaloweiner/Buffalo21stcentury/QueenCity. He once again blames the Jewish community for the ills of the world.
His comments are not in keeping with your posted Terms and Conditions that state: 'Do not post abusive, obscene, threatening, harassing, defamatory, libelous, offensive or sexually explicit material. Do not intentionally make, false or misleading statements.'
we should be greatful that a rep. from a rural part of the state thats really not that far from the city is our new Senator? Because she'll be able to relate to the economic problems the CITY of Buffalo is having? Doubt it. This no victory for anyone West of Albany.
I'm not particularly against her but lets not kid ourselves that she'll have any affinity towards Buffalo or do anything of major consequence for us. (Chatauqua and Genesee Counties should be excited about the appointment.) Although I truly hope I'm wrong.
The idea that there is an objective and constant standard for "liberal" or "centrist" or whatever is stupid. The meaning of these labels changes over time. While the NAACP was once a radical organization, over time it has become quite mainstream. Or, more accurately, it has succeeded in changing what it means to be mainstream.
1. You win. I'll accept there's no meaningful objective standard definition of liberal and conservative. Won't use those words here again. Bad, bad words!
2. I didn't characterize the NAACP org as anything. Is it unreasonable to characterize their published Congress voting grade criteria? Do you think it's impossible for the NAACP's voting rankings of Congress to have any ideological bent other than "mainstream"?
3. What's your reaction if the NAACP gives an F grade to a congressman widely acclaimed as a moderate's moderate and who's an Obama Cabinet appointee? Doesn't his voting record getting an F from the NAACP give the slightest hint maybe their criteria has a pretty sharp ideological bent toward the L-word side of the spectrum?
Colin>"The idea that there is an objective and constant standard for "liberal" or "centrist" or whatever is stupid. The meaning of these labels changes over time."
Back to Gillibrand. Is it also stupid for progressives who criticized the appointment due to her voting record not being L-word enough (or for it being too C-word, now a.k.a."Blue Dog" as the guy quoted Sunday's Buffalo News front page article criticized Gillibrand for)?
How about "progressive"? What's the objective and constant standard for it? How do we know it won't change over time?
Will you tell the WFP they're stupid if they use that word to describe a candidate or issue position? They seem to like it a lot, and I'd never say they're stupid:
http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/2008/10/netroots-join-call-to-vote-obama-on-working-families-line
What's the difference between the WFP using progressive to describe a candidate or issue position, compared to the National Journal saying an issue position is L-word or C-word, or a downstate Democrat criticizing Gillibrand for being too C-word or not enough L-word?
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I think the only reason this woman was able to run as a democrat and win in such a heavily Republican populated district is her stance against gay marriage and her support by the NRA. (Oh and her husband is a venture capitalist).
It is amazing a second term Congresswoman withe little bill writing experience and certainly limited overseas awareness can be appointed Senator.Thank God she has to run for re-election in 2010.
Sorry it wasn't Mayor Brown appointed- Buffalo would be a better place if he wasn't Mayor!
Why should Patterson have told anyone before Hillary got accepted? I think it's a good pick. Way better than Cuomo or Kennedy. Should be interesting in 2010.