Master Planning @ the ROC

so much potential.....

Parking may become a bit tricky but there is a fair amount around i suppose. I'm not sure what they meant in the presentation by rejuvenating the surronding neighborhood. There is only so much the city and the planners of the ROC can do about the neighborhood to the south (which seems to be improving regardless). The best hope is for the Homeowners to fix up their homes themselves, perhaps living across from an Olmsted park will be that catalyst. However i hope the city repaves Forest and Grant street eventually.

What's great isn't just that there are so many good ideas for the ROC, but that there is enough room for most of them. On one side it plugs into the museums, on the other, Buff State. to the south, there's an opportunity to interface with the neighborhood in ways that will spur reinvestment and improvement. Such a wealth of choices needs...a wealth of wealth.

Tielman says that if the country is progressive enough to elect a black president, than we can deal with parking further away from historic structures? Uh, what?

That's quite a non sequitur. Like, I'm red-headed, so I must like mustard. Or Tielman is a preservationist, so he simply doesn't care about real world issues like parking. Oh wait, that last one isn't a non sequitur.

I dont think the architecture museum is going to do it and Im suprised that it even got as far as it did.

The most successful re-use has always been a conference center which could serve the community (both community center and business community conference center), the culturals and the three biggies canisius, buffalo state and D'Youville.

A conference center is perfect for Buffalo State Hotel and Restaurant Management Programs.

I dont see the Richardson as much of a hotel though. Well atleast not more than a boutique hotel.

From the bigger picture I see Presidential Libraries in the Richardson as perfect for each wing (Fillmore in one wing and Cleveland in the other). We local already have museums for McKinley and TRoosevelt. Those Presidential Libraries can then connect to the Buffalo Historical Societies library of historical documents, Pan Am Exhibits, and an architectural museum.

THE HISTORICAL MUSEUM SHOULD BE AT THE RICHARDSON BECAUSE IT WOULD BE MORE CONNECTED TO THE COLLEGE COMMUNITY AND CULTURALS WHO COULD APPRECIATE IT, PLUS IT WOULD HAVE ROOM TO ADD EXHIBITIS THAT IT DOESNT HAVE....LET THE ALBRIGHT KNOX EXPAND TO KNOTTINGHAM.

An excellent idea would be to front Grant Street with townhomes and office/retail fronts and put parking garages behind them. Let those parking garages serve both Buffalo State and the Richardson.

Frankly it shocks me that the President of Buffalo State would put parking garages as a higher priority than student residences.

Non sequitur?

The point is that people can get past their prejudices, ie parking must be next to the building.

Maybe not the best analogy, but I know what Tielman means.

Yeah it wasn't the greatest analogy but it had a point. If we want our city to change, we need to do development differently than the past 50 years. ie parking doesn't need to be adjacent to every parcel and building in the city.

If we want a suburbanized city, then we continue along our current path. If we want a dense, vibrant city like our peers we talk about so much. Then we need to do exactly what they do... limit parking.

Buffalo definitely needs an Architectural Museum, I don't really care where it goes. here or downtown. It just needs to be easily found by visitors.

I attended the meeting myself. It was very nice to see some outside sources come into the city and call the building a gem. because most of the time it takes an outsiders vision and implementation for anything to get done. Unfortunitely we live in a city of complaint after complaint. we want this, we want that. But we never seem to get anything done, oh sure we have our restaurants and our bars to look forward to. and yes we have our art community.

But we also have our elitists, who complain more because they need more. And I always love to hear from the city at these meetings, who stand up and say we'll look into that. Really? yes, they will look into it, will they do anything about it, doubtful. So we continue to grind our teeth on this subject. and nothing gets done.

I remember when this thing all started, the state had allocated $100 million dollars to the richardson project, which I know some of that money went to the penny arts center and the darwin martin house. and some to the stabilization of the richardson. So know we have some money left, what will we do? wait till New York state requests it back, because you know we live in a state that loves to make Buffalo its scapegoat.

I think we should just let them do the architecture center and visitors center and whatever they want to do, I don't care if they want the world's largest flea circus and I'll tell you why, preservation of the building. so what if the project fails, Buffalo would save an incredible piece of history, and then can do what ever the hell they want, if of course the project fails.

However the only thing that makes me laugh about this project is the current mental facility on that lot, the buffalo psychiatric center, which from what I was told, only has under 100 patients. Now you tell me, doesn't that seem like a waste of space. My suggestion, get rid of it, relocate out to sticks, its better for the patients anyway. I like the hotel idea, but do you honestly think, people want to stay at a place next to a mental hospital. If so let me know I will start buying property around attica prison.

One final thing, and this is to Richardson-Olmstead Complex organizers, change your name so the abbreviation doesn't sound like alcatraz.

Cardiff - your point on tielman was right on! In my opinion Tielman belongs in the pysc ward.
This whole idea is a joke. I would personally bring in the wrecking ball and utilize the land for local college use. The city can also clear the site and market the land for new hotels, conference, or business start ups that capitialize on the expanded success of elmwood and the meusums. A park also sounds reasonable. We all know this is a far fetched dream especially in the current economy and it is better that way. People are losing their job everywhere and we are going to invest in a psyc ward(100 million just to start it). Why dont we use that money to start up compnies specializing in bioinformatics or green energy right there by the college and a neighborhood. Never, No How, Ridiculous only in tim tielmans bizaro world. Let Tim park his car down on grant and walk to what ever city wants him. Lets utilize this money to create jobs for EVERY WORKING Family NOT the ELITIST.

Tear down a building with 100 million in capital already in the pipeline, do you think that money would be put directly into another project in WNY if that earmark was not had? Cookie you can call Tielman rediculous, but he's a preservationist, its his profession. Would you call a doctor adovcating for additional funding for the medical corridor an elitist? I'm sure the tradespeople who'll get to work on the building hate the 100 million elistist dollars being spent on the rehab.

Both "put_up" and "cookie" have very valid points. What tourist would make a hotel between a the "Buffalo Boobie Hatch" and a drug and alcohol rehab center their hotel of choice? But then again just think, you could get a room, dried out and a dose of lithium and never have to get in your car. Wow!

Also, people don't go to any attraction that you make difficult at best to get to. Again, what tourist is going to visit an attraction if they're made to park in a neighborhood they know nothing about and hoof it to see the place where they used to basically torture the inmates? It's the cart before the horse yet again. When you open an attraction or business you need to think about how people will get to you. To take away the parking would be fine if there were any clean reliable public transportation. Maybe they could run a spur for the "Hooterville Trolley" that runs on Main Street down the middle of Elmwood. That makes about as much sense as thinking that putting two lanes of traffic on Main Street will be the salvation of downtown.

No wonder this is the city of bad ideas. They with the idea and the cash usually win no matter how stupid or ill thought out the idea is. Then we can wait 50 years to correct it. Think traffic circles!! Look what almost happened to the Pitts Palace Hotel on the Waterfront.

Nick...thats the whole point, the local government should see if they can utilize these funds for creating jobs on that same land and considering the economic mess were in im sure the govoner would listen. The adelphia funds were redistributed. NOW jobs are more important than ever. And lets be straight here, that funding is just to stabilize the buildings. This is a mass amount of money to benefit the few. In my dictionary that is ELITISM. I am sure the companies working on this building would love it...but MORE people would benefit if green, bioinformatic, and technological jobs were created. If Tim was so concerned about jobs, those construction workers would be busy working on the casino instead. This RIDICUOUS idea will be another drain on the tax base instead expanding the job base which helps elevate our tax paying population. That 100 million should not be wasted regaurdless. NICK wake up to reality, anyone with a sense of vision, business sense, and citizenship would want these funds to help stabilize and grow the WNY economy.

It isn't benefiting a few. It is benefiting the whole region as it protects, reuses and promotes out local history. A history that people already are coming here to visit. I guarantee that no matter where you put the parking, people will still want to stay in this hotel. The amenities of Buff State, ABK, Elmwood Strip, BP make it more than worth a 5 minutes walk... also most people who come here will still think that a short walk is convenient. not everywhere is as lazy as WNY when it comes to proximity of parking.

To even discuss tearing this down and calling it elitism is ludicrous. You would spend 50 million to tear it down, and at least another 250 to build anything close to its size and scope or redevelopment.

The COE building downtown had the same people complaining... ohh its going to cost so much and for what a couple science jobs. That's so elitist... blah blah blah. What has it done. Generated new businesses, attracted businesses to come to Buffalo and given well paying and scientific jobs to new graduates from local colleges.

It has spurred growth and new businesses around it and stabilized a couple blocks of Main Street. And yes people need to park a couple blocks away, NOT A BIG DEAL.

There is a much larger benefit to renovating this building, creating taxable businesses, expanding Buff State, raising property values from a newly recreated Olmsted Landscape than a shovel ready sight.

sbrof, you're elitist for making that point, didn't you know you have to check facts and college degrees at the lackawanna toll booth?

You two just cant see it. The UB Center for Excellence is exactly what im talking about. That is the type of development that should be going on at Buff State. A refurbashed Psyc Ward does not create high paying jobs or spin off compnies. If they invested a 100 + million in to a green companies training facility off elmwood the potntial for jobs and saving the region is better off. Nick I am highly educated and understand that jobs for both the college educated and blue collar workers is more important than a refurbished old psyc ward. In order to keep more people here with college degrees and actually have some relocate here, JOBS JOBS JOBS are NEEDED, not OLD PSYC WARDS. This is criminal to waste this money on tielman's pie in the sky dreams. We need to attract people here and companies here that have potential to grow and 100 plus million is a good way to start a Green Growth Center of Excellence next to Buff State and the other museums. The CoE Building you mention was not an old eyesore, but a new beautiful building. Sbrof and Nick you are so off, realize what you are suggesting how tax payers money should be spent. Unemployment is closing in on 8% and this is your suggestion on how to spend tax payers dollars??? If tim, nick, and sbrof were funding this project it would be wonderful, Excellent idea. The government should be investing in the medical corridor, green jobs, and education, not old pysc wards...Get Real

Cookie,the money is specifically budgeted for the project, it was written into the state budget for this purpose. Also, the state is required by law to maintain these building. I understand jobs are needed, but why would you sacrifice one of the positives when you can get multiple expenditues. That money if not spent on the building will not go to what you say, it would become an open grab at the cookie jar, utilize the money in WNY while its guaranteed to be here. If you look at the master plan, the money is being used to rehab the buildings in prep for private investment, possible offices for a green start-up?

Could you provide a budget of the costs for your plan to demo the structure and construct new buildings for other purposes? Why do you say its fine to spend money on the new CoE building compared to this building. You think this is an eyesore, others see it as an opportunity, there's no inherent reason that a new building is better equiped to develop and foster new business, and in fact historic buildings rehabbed are more green and energy efficient.